Wikipedia claims Moloch - not an Owl, but a Bull?

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posted on Aug, 29 2007 @ 07:01 PM
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As the ever interested one in matters of the Illuminati, I've recently come to a point in my research that shows something I have found to be rather odd.

In researching online about Moloch and the Bohemian Grove associations with said deity, I was surprised to find that on Wikipedia Moloch is not mentioned as an owl, but rather - heavily described as a bull headed diety.

MOLOCH

Now for those of you who are to cry "Wikipedia is not the authoritative source!" believe me, I have considered this. But the majority of the information I have been able to dig up on Moloch as an OWL seems to only cover the Bohemian Grove associations with the owl figure, is heavily conspiritorial, and in my opinion - not at all a definitive source themselves.

So my reason for this post is three fold.

One :

Might the Owl in Bohemian Grove be a misinterpretation and/or the result of a massive smear campaign on the participants of said ritual? It it possible that they are indeed covorting under a symbol of WISDOM as opposed to that of child sacrifice and all sorts of diabolical shenannigans?

secondly, in regard to the Wikipedia issue :

If there ARE scholarly and objective sources outside of Wiki that collaborate this Moloch=Bull scenario, is anyone aware of them?

Is this just going to be chalked up as nothing more than Wiki's part in the NWO as "shifting the facts to suit the new agenda"? And if so - how do you defend this allegation?

Three:

If the second point of question two is your stance, is it not wise to assume that as the most widely regonized source for information among the youth of today, that we should respect the influence it's having on the younger generations and those new to the field of this subject?

In my position, I am under the impression that "ignorance is indeed bliss" and heavily regarded information portals should excercise a bit of discrepancy in regards to the education of the newer minds. It's how we move past the old and outdated traditions and onto a more (hopefully) enlightened path.

Is that a bad thing?

Just curious, for the owl will always be a symbol of wisdom and seeing in the darkness for me - and I hate to see such a lovely bird continually given negative press with it's use in the symbolic world of conspiracy.

Any scholars out there willing to help me out with this one?




posted on Aug, 30 2007 @ 02:33 AM
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Just found an interesting sight that might shed some illumination on other, more benign symbolic uses of the owl.

The Owl Pages

Hope someone out there might take this into consideration when reading into the Bohemian Grove conspiracies.

Cultural interpretations of Owls.

As we can see, while the Owl is sometimes given negative associations, it is not always a Universal truth.


Just some food for thought.



[edit on 30-8-2007 by GENERAL EYES]



posted on Aug, 30 2007 @ 02:58 PM
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i have read somewhere before that there is no ancient association of an owl to Moloch. However, there is someone that has an owl as her moniker - Lilith.

Need to find a source for this, but I came across this somewhere...

[edit on 8/30/2007 by damajikninja]



posted on Aug, 30 2007 @ 03:06 PM
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There's an old thread that deals with this question and you can find it here. It's got a lot of decent information, but having said that, to my mind this question has never been comprehensively answered.



posted on Aug, 31 2007 @ 01:47 AM
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I'm familiar with Lilith.

She seems to get a bad rap out there as well. I've often wondered if she may have been a femake Annunaki. But I'm rather new to that entire field.

Still, thanks for sharing!
The more, the merrier!

Implosion - thanks for the link, I'll get right on it.

Wow. Aside from the owl/bull discrepancies, I'm experiencing deja vu from my Wiki source.

Ok. Flash of insight. I get it!

The subtle hand of Big Brother just slapped me across the face.

Great, all premises resolved in this mind.


Now I feel like a complete moron for even having brought this up.

I don't wish to waste anyone else's time here, and I'm making a mental note not to post impulse threads anymore.

Humblest apologies.

Mods - feel free to close and/or delete this thread - the subject has already been covered by a much more astute scholar.

Thanks, Implosion.








[edit on 31-8-2007 by GENERAL EYES]



posted on Aug, 31 2007 @ 07:47 AM
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I've been at a Bohemian Grove, not as a participant but as part of the waitstaff. I can give you a pretty definitive answer about Moloch/Molech and the Owl, but you're probably not going to like it very much. It is rather mundane and silly.

The name Moloch was chosen because most of the participants in early Bohemian Grove retreats were quite familiar with the Old Testament, and Moloch is referenced in Leviticus, First and Second Kings and Jeremiah. He seems to be a deity who is associated with human sacrifices. A (let's say symbolic) human sacrifice is an important part of the occult fun and games at a BG retreat. So "Moloch" seemed like a good name for the Owl idol they'd already sort of designed. It is, incidentally, a hell of a nice owl. The Owl, of course, is associated with Druidic tradition and also with Pallas Athena. When the ritual litany was being written very few of the participants knew or cared a damn thing about Babylonian mythology and so the disposition of the historical Moloch was of little relevance. They needed a cute allusion to use to name the elaborate Owl idol, and the name of a god whose cult was deeply into human sacrifice but who was also unfamiliar to most of the participants seemed like a good idea at the time.

What you need to understand about BG is that these people have tremendous egos, Dionysian (and often booze and coc aine fueled) exuberance but they're not classical scholars. Part of the point is that the only thing that is "sacred" is the traditions of the Grove itself, which are borrowed from diverse and far flung sources. Names and traditions are borrowed, re-crafted and re-written at will.



posted on Aug, 31 2007 @ 07:07 PM
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Peabody - so glad I checked back in, and thank you!


Mundane and silly (especially the combination of the two) is right up my alley, and your accont of the Bohemian Grove and it's attendees more of less confirmed my suspicions on that part of the issue.

I suppose when people mishmash around traditions for their own enjoyment, things can get terribly confusing to those who aren't on the inside of the joke, or else confined to second, or even third hand information.


Thanks for help dispelling some of the darkness that surrounds the entire Owl/Moloch mystery.

*salutes*



posted on Sep, 1 2007 @ 11:26 PM
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I know that when good old St Patrick ran the "snakes" out of Ireland they just didn't disappear . When the Romans conquered, they absorbed the deities into their vast pantheon of Gods, without obliterating them Only the Christians were obstinate and went underground, refusing to acknowledge the Romans. Naturally there were consequences. As Christianity, not to be outdone by the Romans, spread, they borrowed some of the tactics, and integrated rituals into the conquered populations, such as South America and the Caribbean. The Mexican Day of the Dead is a good example, as is voodoo and Santeria.
you will see a statue at an altar of the Virgina Mary, or a Patron saint perhaps. But it is actually the representation of the African seven powers (deities) or Chango(Shango), important particularly for the natives who accept the supernatural as an active integral part of life. If you percieve these (owl) fun loving bon vivante groups as having mystical power then you have acquiesced or surrendered some to them by virtue of fear, and by our tolerance have given them freedom to move and operate as they do now .
Whether its a an Aryan supremacist group, a Skull and Bones frat, an Owl and the pussycat, a Muslim or Christian fanatic organization., none have our general best interest at heart, unlike the Santeria and Voodoo, which seem to strike at a balance between the forces of light and Darkness and empower an individual to walk guardedly between them.

SyS



posted on Sep, 2 2007 @ 12:06 AM
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Wow Sys - that's quite a deluge of information there...

I know very little of the 7 African Powers, but I am minutely familuar with the wisdom of the animal folklore.

Care to elaborate on this point?

*to note : I hold no judgement or suspicions on the part of any race, creed, nationality or ceremonial celebrations in regards to matters. No agenda here whatsoever - just educational interest.

Thanks a million!

*edit for typo

[edit on 2-9-2007 by GENERAL EYES]



posted on Sep, 3 2007 @ 08:34 PM
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I do love barn owls with their heart shaped face. I did not mean to stray from from the original post. My intent was to show how thru time elements of one religion are incorporated or transformed to the other..so that prexisting elements of control by a handful continues. In political term we call this coopting, or stealing the oppositions thunder.
In terms of the owl or any animal , the attributes and associated energies are whats important. Lilith represents the primal female and sexual forces, and Molech the primal male force, requiring human sacrifice. You may find instances of owls depicted.. with peoples heads, the egyptians would depict an owl with broken legs to prevent escape. or Muslims depicting lilith as a succubus.Most associations have been with the dark side as harbringers of death (mayans) and Native American indians, as transporters of the dead. The finns on the other hand consider the owl a sign of stupidity.

For those that live close to nature..let us say a farmer..it is a great thing, as it helps them rid of rodents.for those of us in the city, separated from nature, it becomes at night..something that might be feared. which is why its hoots are used so much in horror films, and its image at halloween.
perhaps thats why these groups borrow it to give themselves a kind of false linkage, legitimacy, and respectability to old orders, like masons, whose lower orders do th good deeds, and the higher degrees are the literata that controlled society via the printed word, ie information.The fact that more and more of these groups are exposed is an indication that their "power" vis a vis secrecy and all entailed is rapidly dissipating, very
much like the Mafia, whose younger leaders are not quite ready to do long stretches in jail just to maintain or protect their Godfather or Grand "Shaman". Yes, perhaps the internet will restore the beloved owl's good name, and put Molech or the golden calf back to pasture.

On the Santeria religions the first link is lengthy, print horrible, but very comprehensive
the third on celtic connections is quite nice also

www.mojomoon.net...

www.cremationofcare.com...

www.unc.edu...

www.theforbiddenknowledge.com...
uspresidentasmasons.htm


I did come across this absolutely fascinating article on the Bohemian Grove by an infiltrator , that will after reading leave one a less sinister impression and quite in line with Peabody's assessment above me.

sociology.ucsc.edu...


[edit on 3-9-2007 by Sys_Config]

[edit on 3-9-2007 by Sys_Config]



posted on Sep, 6 2007 @ 02:32 PM
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I am posting in the hope of keeping this thread alive as I was enjoying all the discussion

Sys



posted on Sep, 6 2007 @ 02:48 PM
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as far a I understand, the only person who has ever referred to Moloch as an owl, has been Alex Jones.

All other references to Moloch involve a bull/human hybrid.



posted on Sep, 6 2007 @ 03:43 PM
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I was just curious about the discrepancies - since I saw the Zeigeist documentary (Part I) I was curious if the Wilipedia changeover to the Bull was symbolic of something akin to the golden calf idolotry, or perhaps the Age of Taurus in some way shape or form.


Google Video Link




Still looking into it.



*UPDATE : there might be something there... 0_0, depending on where your studies take you.


[edit on 6-9-2007 by GENERAL EYES]

[edit on 6-9-2007 by GENERAL EYES]



posted on Oct, 19 2007 @ 04:36 PM
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I will find my source, but I have a mythology book that describes Moloch as the ritual sacrifice itself, not so much a 'being' I will find and post...

The bull worship definitely is golden calf/age of taurus related. If the symbols and artifacts regarding bulls interests you, look to ancient Turkey.

Will be back...
DocMoreau



posted on Feb, 6 2009 @ 02:38 PM
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reply to post by GENERAL EYES
 

Moloch is a bull-headed deity. It's seemed to me so far that the claims of Moloch worship by the elite are lacking in explaining how the owl symbolizes Moloch; if you research Moloch and representations of him throughout history, the owl never seems to show up, or even if you just Google image the word "Moloch." There's a huge gap between the historical mythology of Moloch and the recent alleged Owl representation, and I for one am still trying to find out how he's supposed to have made that leap.



posted on Jan, 26 2010 @ 03:26 AM
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as far a I understand, the only person who has ever referred to Moloch as an owl, has been Alex Jones.



'nuff said.

Moloch=Bull/human not an owl



posted on Jan, 26 2010 @ 03:52 AM
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Here is an 18th century depiction of Moloch taken from this site.




posted on Jan, 26 2010 @ 03:58 AM
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I think that Alex Jones has been exposed once more in this thread. That guy is either a disinformation agent or raging capitalist. Probably both.



posted on Jan, 29 2010 @ 06:19 AM
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There are quite some cases where Alex was wrong or his info was unprecise, but assuming he is a "disinformation agent" is ludicrous in my opinion.

Personally, I don't like him raving (sometimes like a madman) and I think that some people are driven away from the infowar topics by his demeanor, but I also think that the cause needs those people that go out into the streets and use a bullhorn to get the message out.

Oh and by the way - I don't think that BG is that much of a satanical Disney World Alex wants us to believe and thus I don't care if the owl is named Moloch, Molech or Jimbo



posted on Jan, 31 2010 @ 03:40 AM
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To check out some actual research on this subject and the truth about other occult symbols go to : www.jordanmaxwell.com... To get the actual scoop on secret societies.
.
Jordan Maxwell continues as a preeminent researcher and independent scholar in the field of occult / religious philosophy. His interest in these subjects began as far back as 1959. He served for three and a half years as the Religion Editor of Truth Seeker Magazine, America's oldest Freethought Journal (since 1873). His work exploring the hidden foundations of Western religions and secret societies creates enthusiastic responses from audiences around the world etc.....





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