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US Troops become active critics of Iraq War.

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posted on Aug, 29 2007 @ 06:52 PM
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US Troops become active critics of Iraq War.


news.yahoo.com

In books and professional journals, blogs, and newspapers, active-duty military personnel are speaking publicly and critically as never before about an ongoing war.
(visit the link for the full news article)




posted on Aug, 29 2007 @ 06:52 PM
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It was only a matter of time before the troops realized that the end to this conflict will not come by the barrel of US rifles.

I wonder how this will be spun by Oreilly.


AAC

news.yahoo.com
(visit the link for the full news article)



posted on Aug, 29 2007 @ 07:07 PM
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I have done one tour and getting ready for a second, at the beggining I was hopeful that Iraq turn out to be what the war planners and the President thought at the beggining, unfortunately that has not been the case.

The main two reasons for this IMO are:

1. Lack of proper planning at the Pentagon. (pre war, during war, after the war, during nation building)

2. Iraqis not willing to help themselves. (They are many reasons for this)

None of those two things are the fault of the troops on the ground. We sign up to defend this country, I will follow the orders that are given to me but at the same time I expected more from my leadership at DC.



posted on Aug, 29 2007 @ 07:12 PM
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Originally posted by Bunch
None of those two things are the fault of the troops on the ground. We sign up to defend this country, I will follow the orders that are given to me but at the same time I expected more from my leadership at DC.


Well Said.


You my friend are deserving of all the respect in the world. Honor and dignity, without sacrificing your own perception. I wish you all the best.


AAC



posted on Aug, 29 2007 @ 10:52 PM
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reply to post by Bunch
 


Very well said, Bunch.

Support the troops... hold the leadership accountable.



posted on Aug, 31 2007 @ 11:41 PM
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reply to post by Infoholic
 


The troops are no less accountable for their actions. One is not alleviated of their conscious choice to commit aggression and murder by the words of another. Support the Troops may be a fashionable sentiment but it is the troops that create the war you dislike.



posted on Sep, 1 2007 @ 05:41 AM
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I would agree that troops need to be held accountable for their actions... however, the troops aren't the ones that sent this current Administration over to Iraq and Afghanistan.

I fully support the troops, and I can do so without supporting this war.



posted on Sep, 1 2007 @ 05:46 AM
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The Administration is a construct of words.

The troops sent themselves over. They carried the guns, they brought the war.


I fully support the troops, and I can do so without supporting this war.


You may not want to see it.. but this makes no sense whatsoever!

The troops are the war, regardless of your opinions of bureaucrats.



posted on Sep, 1 2007 @ 12:33 PM
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reply to post by SteveR
 


I wish we lived in a place that no wars where need it, and no armies existed if that what are you trying to get at.

The US military follows order given by the civilian politician that YOU elected, we dont do something without the approval of civilian leadership, you should know that by now.

Thats why the military should be used when or other options are out, as a last resort. Ask any men and women in service and the majority will tell you that there is no one that hate wars more than the people that have to go there and do battle, sometimes I really question if the civilian population as a whole has a grasp of the big sacrifice that is dedicating almost 2 years of my young life protect THEM. Then again I think about my family and that reassures me that Im doing the right thing.

If you dont like your government or the way you civilians elected leaders use the military, make yourself heard during election time, to say that WE as a FORCE bring war to many places is utterly ignorant borderline stupid.


[edit on 1-9-2007 by Bunch]



posted on Sep, 1 2007 @ 12:57 PM
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Originally posted by SteveR
reply to post by Infoholic
 


The troops are no less accountable for their actions. One is not alleviated of their conscious choice to commit aggression and murder by the words of another. Support the Troops may be a fashionable sentiment but it is the troops that create the war you dislike.



I couldn’t agree more.

I am an Iraqi Freedom vet. I was there in the expeditionary invasion, from the start, with a front line (in front of the line to be more precise) combat unit.

I am severely disabled from my experience in Iraq, and I DESERVE IT!

It is difficult to come home after seeing horrors and "just doing your job" in Iraq. We do what we can to survive mentally, emotionally. Part of this is blaming our leaders. "It wasn’t our fault" you will often hear a soldier drivel, "we were just following orders!"

“Just following orders.” That didn’t work for the Nazis, DID IT! It didn’t work at Nuremberg!

It is a coping mechanism. Some deal with what we did and what we saw by blaming others and not taking responsibility for our actions.

I made the choice to go over there rather than look like a coward to my buddies and family.

I made the choice to go over there rather than risk sitting in jail for a few years for refusing to deploy.

I MADE THE CHOICE. I LIVE EVERY DAY WITH THE CONSEQUINCES.

It is my fault. It is the fault of every trooper who picks up a riffle, who gets on a plane, who pulls the trigger.

Don’t you people on this thread dare belittle me or any other soldier by implying that we are childish drones who cant do anything but take orders. We have free will, we make choices. No one held a gun to our head to make us go. We went willingly rather than face the consequences.

Own up to what you did soldiers, this is your war. It’s my war. I own it, and because of that I live it every day and almost every night, as I will for the rest of my life.

I own it, may God forgive my soul.



posted on Sep, 1 2007 @ 01:00 PM
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I have done one tour and getting ready for a second, at the beggining I was hopeful that Iraq turn out to be what the war planners and the President thought at the beggining, unfortunately that has not been the case.


Have you ever thought that the plan is to stay in Iraq and not "win" the war? Winning means US troops go home, Bush does not what that.



posted on Sep, 1 2007 @ 01:18 PM
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When the troops come home the gravy train stops for all the arms companies. I don't see that happening. Arms companies OWN Bush as well as much of the House and Senate. We need term limits in Congress in order to break up the Good Old Boys Club that is entrenched there.

[edit on 9-1-2007 by groingrinder]



posted on Sep, 1 2007 @ 01:19 PM
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Originally posted by Infoholic
Support the troops... hold the leadership accountable.


Sounds great in concept doesn't it, but no one does that. When it's a war the people don't care about, they don't care about anything associated with it, including the troops.

Sure you'll hear someone comment now and then like you did, "support the troops, hate the war" and that sort of thing... just rolls off the tongue so naturally doesn't it.



posted on Sep, 1 2007 @ 01:26 PM
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Originally posted by Infoholic
reply to post by Bunch
 


Very well said, Bunch.

Support the troops... hold the leadership accountable.


No way!

This is a cop out!

I do not support our troops. This defending our freedoms BS has got to stop. Our freedoms have not been in jeopardy since the Revolutionary War.

I just cannot get my head around this fact. The troops have sworn to uphold the Constitution and defend against all enemies foreign and DOMESTIC. The only true enemy to us resides at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue NW in Washington, D.C.
Any service men or women should lay down their arms and refuse to be paid mercenaries for war profiteers any longer!

www.lewrockwell.com...



posted on Sep, 1 2007 @ 01:59 PM
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reply to post by QuasiShaman
 


Please just go and re read the title of this thread. I do have a mind of my own and I do can speak out and said that the War in Iraq has been a mistake since the beginning.

As far a support goes, I can really could care less, I decided to fight for my OWN personal reasons which I happen to believe in. The pay is not good, living conditions are bad, time away from my family, spending years of my life away in a hell hole, sleepless nights, days wondering if todays is the day and my number is up, but I rather have myself doing the battle than having my children and grandchildren not able to go out to a mall or a park for fear of being blown out to pieces, because that what you see over there on a daily basis. And you can believe all the conspiracy wackos you want, I live in reality and in reality you have to make choices, hard choices but that does not mean that the military own my mind or my soul.

Does that do not serve do it for their OWN reasons too, and I respect that but respect goes both ways too. Support? could care less.




[edit on 1-9-2007 by Bunch]



posted on Sep, 1 2007 @ 02:06 PM
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People have it soo wrong, troops are for the defense of our nation, not puppets to be play with by our corrupted governments backed up by the war profiteers.

In the name of patriotism armies are gathered with often the nations best sons and daughters.

But when profiteers of war step over to wag wars for corporate and financial agendas then they careless how much blood is spill for their sick goals and often troops ranks are fill with whatever necesary to fight their wars.

Yes many wars our nation has fought has been for profits not for the people of the nation but for a sick elite that gamble on the nations populations.



posted on Sep, 1 2007 @ 05:10 PM
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Originally posted by Bunch
I wish we lived in a place that no wars where need it, and no armies existed if that what are you trying to get at.



Yes you do - that's because the current wars are not "needed" either.



Originally posted by Bunch
The US military follows order given by the civilian politician that YOU elected, we dont do something without the approval of civilian leadership, you should know that by now.



You are willing to surrender your individual responsibility and pull a trigger because a man in a suit (who I elected??) told you so through a chain of numerous men.

The excuses and passings of responsibility are irrelevant. Your responsibility is god given and nobody negates that. It really is that simple.



Originally posted by Bunch
Ask any men and women in service and the majority will tell you that there is no one that hate wars more than the people that have to go there and do battle.



I never knew the military was mostly war-loathing types. That's really sad. What a pitiful existance it must be.



Originally posted by Bunch
dedicating almost 2 years of my young life protect THEM



Dedicating 2 years of your life earning good money and playing with cool toys, thanks, I owe you. I feel so indebted. Or are we talking about the part where you slaughter third world countries? Again, I owe you. I know for a fact I couldn't commit such acts myself.



Originally posted by Bunch
Then again I think about my family and that reassures me that Im doing the right thing.



Is your family the only factor here? I tend to think the situation is alot more complex and brimming with more consequences than you appreciate.

Respect for the military, or any military man is not given by default. It is earned - same with everybody else. Your expectation further compounds my case I'm afraid.

I would respect you without limit - and perhaps many others would too - if you heeded the constitutional pledge you made. If you do not want personal responsibility, for god's sake DON'T pick up a gun or go anywhere near the military.




If you dont like your government or the way you civilians elected leaders use the military, make yourself heard during election time, to say that WE as a FORCE bring war to many places is utterly ignorant borderline stupid.



Forces bring war. That is the whole point you have difficulty, and I can understand that difficulty, accepting.

Thanks for the post..

[edit on 1/9/07 by SteveR]



posted on Sep, 1 2007 @ 05:22 PM
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Originally posted by cavscout
Own up to what you did soldiers, this is your war. It’s my war. I own it, and because of that I live it every day and almost every night, as I will for the rest of my life.



I admire your bravery and honesty in recognizing that personal responsibility.


I wish you well cavscout.



posted on Sep, 1 2007 @ 05:39 PM
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its a good thing they are coming foward and seeing the truth but what they say i never hear it ge tmentioned on the media that much i wacthed on youtube a ex soldier from iraq who said about how he was told to kill civilians etc and it was wasnt even put on the news how are we to stop this and make american and people around the world see the horrors if the news doesnt do much



posted on Sep, 1 2007 @ 06:54 PM
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Everyone who enlists takes an oath, and here is a key points about that oath that needs to be mentioned:

"I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me"

As a side note, this is only for enlisted members, officers do not say this during the oath they take. That makes me wonder, but back on topic.

Any enlisted person who speaks up against those who are appointed above them has a serious issue with the job they decided to pursue, unless it is an unlawful order in which they have a right to speak up against.

They should sperate and tell everyone that they got out because they can't live up to the agreement between them and the military. Personal opinions of those appointed above you have no part in the enlisted ranks and if you let opinions cloud your judgment you cannot serve as you promised.

Those who decide to speak up against those appointed above them are unaware of their actions and how they can tarnish all those who came before them and all those who will come after them. This is for those who are given lawful orders but fail to understand the part they play. You only hurt the image of the military when you speak up against those appointed above you. If that is what you want to do then grab a sign and protest, but don't enlist and make those in uniform look bad.

Defending our interests home and abroad is what you are getting paid to do when you enlist, and deciding where you end up isn't your choice. Deal with it or seperate. Think about the oath you took.

Most of the public isn't cut out for the military but without the military this country wouldn't be here. The enlisted personnel give up certain freedoms to ensure that the rest of the country can enjoy theirs. It is that simple.

This is sad to read about since nobody on this site gets the intel that our senior leadership gets. Without that info how can anyone judge them for what they decided to do? So many are quick to judge, but the most important thing is the oath the enlisted people took when they joined. If you don't like it seperate, otherwise enjoy what you are doing in support of this country.



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