Originally posted by Matthew5012
So all anyone has to do to fly a secret mission of 4planes over the USA is to have there transponders turned to off. then everyone in the contry is totaly confused???

Only if the russians knew about that in the cold war hey!

Ah but think about it, if they had no transponders the Russian controllers wouldn't know whose they were either, thats the problem. Anyway if they came from overseas they would be tracked, but when they are over land when they disappear thats harder to solve.

Plus if you have no transponder no one knows whose side you are on, and BVR in a warzone, you want at least one side to not be shooting at you.

Originally posted by defcon5
I don’t see what the big deal is.
We knew a long time ago that there was some mix up with which planes where which, and Norad was being handed information from ATC. These kind of things happen when they are having to rely on a civilian group for tacking, and the aircraft was only visible on primary radar. With it on primary radar it blends into any kind of background noise that shows up on the radar system, and it becomes easy to lose track of as it switches between radar stations.


[edit on 8/30/2007 by defcon5]

Agreed...it would be VERY easy to lose a jet in clutter whose transponder is turned off. What a lot of people don't realize is how much goes into tracking a plane. It's a LOT more than just watching a dot move on a screen. All those radar screens you've seen in the movies? Forget you ever saw them, 'cause it doesn't look like that.

this transponder thing always made me wonder. are there any pilots here than can name where the transponder is located? is it in the same location on every plane? would someone who has only learned to fly in a small plane before KNOW where to find a transponder in a big plane? what times EXACTLY were the transponders switched off in each plane?

can anyone answer any of the above? thx

Originally posted by justyc
this transponder thing always made me wonder. are there any pilots here than can name where the transponder is located? is it in the same location on every plane? would someone who has only learned to fly in a small plane before KNOW where to find a transponder in a big plane? what times EXACTLY were the transponders switched off in each plane?

can anyone answer any of the above? thx

The transponder would not be hard to find if you've piloted a plane before. Every plane HAS to have a transponder if you want to legally fly, and they're all used in essentially the same manner. As long as you know what a transponder is, and what it's for, you'd have no problem finding it and figuring out how to use that particular transponder.

As far as what time they were turned off, I don't know off the top of my head, but I'm sure it wouldn't be hard to find if you google it.

Originally posted by justyc
this transponder thing always made me wonder. are there any pilots here than can name where the transponder is located? is it in the same location on every plane? would someone who has only learned to fly in a small plane before KNOW where to find a transponder in a big plane? what times EXACTLY were the transponders switched off in each plane?

can anyone answer any of the above? thx

yes, yes, and yes.....

in the center of the console between the two pilots

it's not like they started flight training in january of '01

hani hanjour had some 600 hours and was qualified in '99

(i'm sorry but from where i am i cant access all my sources so you gotta take my word or dont believe it)

If the NORAD tapes are unaltered, this could be breaking news.

do you know what the impact of these tapes would be?

considering its "loose change", probably...NOTHING, just like the "loose change" video.

there still hasnt been "solid proof", as one person called it, of anything.

there is so much heresay taken as truth by conspiracy theorists its disheartening.

Originally posted by apex

Originally posted by Matthew5012
So all anyone has to do to fly a secret mission of 4planes over the USA is to have there transponders turned to off. then everyone in the contry is totaly confused???

Only if the russians knew about that in the cold war hey!

Ah but think about it, if they had no transponders the Russian controllers wouldn't know whose they were either, thats the problem. Anyway if they came from overseas they would be tracked, but when they are over land when they disappear thats harder to solve.

Plus if you have no transponder no one knows whose side you are on, and BVR in a warzone, you want at least one side to not be shooting at you.

i hear what your saying but there still going to light up like a christmas trees and be red flagged by the system!

Just because the transponder is on doesn't mean it's showing up on the radar screen. You, as a controller, have to specifically look for a planes code. If you have no idea where the plane is, then you have to look at EVERY code...with that many planes on the screen, it becomes a jumbled mess that you literally can not read.

Actually quite difficult. Primary skin paints can be very intermittent, and very faint on the radar screen. And not all radar sets are primary sets. Where Flight 77 turned off their transponder there were only two primary sets, and they flew over an area that only had secondary sites.

But the thing about 9/11 is that only ONE flight left the transponder off. Three of them changed the codes, which caused some confusion, and only Flight 77 left their transponder off. Once the transponder changes, then the controllers have to spend time figuring out who the flight really is, and if someone else told them to change codes, and it delays the response further. As for the military thinking that Flight 11 was still in the air, they were relying on the FAA to tell them the planes were down, and the FAA didn't do that for a long time with that flight. Unless they know for sure it's down, they're going to HAVE to assume that it's still airborne.

Originally posted by Zaphod58
But the thing about 9/11 is that only ONE flight left the transponder off. Three of them changed the codes, which caused some confusion, and only Flight 77 left their transponder off.

This is the first I've heard of this. A source would be nice. Not that I'm doubting you. Thanks.

Oh sorry, I misremembered that. I just woke up and my brain hasn't had its morning dose of caffeine yet. Only one flight changed codes, but the other three had problems with tracking, and figuring out altitudes of the planes. Boston Center also didn't follow procedures with notifying the military about Flight 11. The FAA notified the military, but didn't request an escort, and later after they went up their chain of command, they attempted to notify a military station that had been phased out and was no longer in service to launch fighters.

Most controllers, unless they have to, don't leave their radar screens in a mode that will even see primary radar returns. They can reconfigure them to show primary returns, and they did on 9/11, but a radar screen shows a LOT of normal data, and a lot of transponder codes, so it's very easy to lose a primary return, especially if one controller is tracking it, and he hands off to another controller. During that hand off, they can lose the primary return and take time to find it again.

Originally posted by Tynee
there is so much heresay taken as truth by conspiracy theorists its disheartening.

Yeah, almost as disheartening as the percentage of the population that blindly believes what the TV told them about what happened that day.

What really gets to me is the fact that many people will believe that the ' highjackers' in all four cases, managed to clear out both pilots from the cockpits and disable the transponders, but they cannot explain how it is that all of the pilots were totally unable to flip a switch and activate the ' Highjack code '.

Imagine 2 pilots up front, in all 4 planes, that is eight people that had to be removed from a cramped and tight space, be replaced by the ' highjacker ' pilots, and then deactivate the transponders. they could do all of that but not ONE pilot in any plane could take one second to flip the switch and notify the highjack. It is impossible, unbelievable, beyond the realm of possibility.

Those pilots would have fought back, would have never given up the cockpits that easily, no matter what. All FOUR cockpit doors must have been standing wide open, right? Then all eight pilots must have for some reason decided, for the first time in aviation history, to let the ' highjackers ' take over the plane, and all with boxcutters!!

Anyone who believes that would no doubt believe that the highjackers could have navigated the craft, flown them expertly and accomplished all this with no training on heavy jets. Amazing what some people will believe.There is no way that scenario could be true. Recall the tapes of Flt. 93, with Cleveland tower speaking to the pilot secons before they did not respond back? It took just a second to lose contact. those aircraft were taken over by automatic controllers and flown wherever.

It is beyond the realm of possibility that eight pilots would have decided to act in a way never before seen, and without a struggle, and without the aircraft displaying signs of being taken over..no way. The whole story we have been asked to swallow is beyond ridiculous and only the gullibility of the people allows it to keep going on.

No matter what the tapes show, there is NO WAY that those aircraft were taken over by men with bladed weapons in an instant..no way. Simply impossible. the pilots would have fought to the death to remain in control of their planes, and the fact that all of the four planes were taken over without a whimper and within seconds tells the tale. The transponders were deactivated the instant that the remote controller took over the computers and directed the planes according to their nefarious plan.

There is no other explanation that makes any sense at all.None. No one could possible believe that four planes could be taken in seconds without any resistance from the crew, and flown to targets far away, with great percision, all by second rate pilots that had NEVER trained in heavy planes. Beyond belief for anyone except a rabid Bushie that can see and hear no evil despite all of the facts. the time it took to overcome the planes tells us all we need to know; it HAD to be done remotely, that is the ONLY explanation that makes any sense.

Why did not ONE pilot flip the switch and activate a highjack code? Are we to believe that not ONE pilot thought this a good idea? While the pilots were allegedly being dragged out of the cockpit, dead or alive another pilot could have and WOULD have flipped the switch. No way that 4 planes failed to do this..impossible. they could not do it because all systems were overtaken from the ground. that is the only answer.