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.22 caliber long rifle ammunition

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posted on Sep, 8 2007 @ 03:33 PM
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There really isnt an expantion for why the ammunitions would be doing that it just happens just like you would get some duds in a box of ammo its just was to do with the casing isnt filled with the right amount of powder and why just dont see it or they dont find it in the bundle.




posted on Sep, 9 2007 @ 06:44 PM
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Nylon 66 for canoe rifle. Marlin 39 when needing to de-rabbit the garden.
Win dyna points for some usage, but tryout the Aguila SSS with the 60 gr bullets. Some rifles really like them, and fairly quiet, too. Brownells sells special bbls to handle the SSS for ruger 10/22 and 77/22.



posted on Nov, 16 2007 @ 02:37 AM
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reply to post by orangetom1999
 

Hey orangetom, Didn't read the whole thread. Just wanted to mention that back 3-4 years I was trying for accuracy with my Winchester 52s. At 100yrs was able to shoot a 1/2" 6 shot group with Elly manufactured Remington branded green box 22 Target. This was with one of 2 of my older models about 1926 manufacture. My thought at the time was that Elly made some good ammo and that you had to match the ammo to the gun, try different target grades till you find the best for your particular gun.



posted on Nov, 16 2007 @ 04:51 AM
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plumranch,

Are you refering to Eley brand? They are top choises in .22 cal competitions and used even by olympic shooters. They are a good choise for short to medium range, but bit slow for hunting.



posted on Nov, 17 2007 @ 02:35 AM
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reply to post by northwolf
 

Hi Northwolf,
Yup, it was Eley ammo. The target variety 22 cartridges are better lubed, more uniformly weigted re charge and bullet. also they very carefully keep that velocity around the speed of sound. The tendency for cheaper 22 ammo is to go supersonic and that leads to instability in the lower supersonic levels esp. for the 22 size bullet IMO. The bullet is too close to the supersonic sound wave behind it and the bullet mass is too small so it wobbles, slips off, and misses the target.



posted on Nov, 17 2007 @ 02:42 AM
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At 100 yards it's tough to get consistent performance with .22 ammo.

I would upgrade my rifle to a .223.

3200 fps compared to 1200 fps is such a difference.

Of course, the 22 is light, simple, cheap, and quiet, which may be why you're using it anyway.


I use CCI. Seems pretty consistent IMHO.



posted on Nov, 22 2007 @ 08:57 AM
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A small bit of thread resurrecting, but I thought I'd point out that some of the guys on the Rimfire Central board are reporting that Remington 22 LR cartridges in the smaller bulk pack are doing pretty well as far as feeding, firing every time as well as printing a pretty good group in most rifles.

That would be the about 325 count box and not the 525 count box.


www.rimfirecentral.com...

Everything from specific makes and modifications to collecting, optics, sights and ammuntion has its own forum.

Nice place, full or very knowledgeable ladies and gentlemen who are quite willing to share and help.



posted on Nov, 22 2007 @ 10:36 AM
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Hello Dawg,
Good to see your post again. I must make haste to get some things done around here but want to take time to thank you for the site.

I have bookmarked it for later reading. It initially looks very intresting under a quick scan.

Off for four days here. After 12 hour nights I hardly know what to do with myself after my catching up on procrastinated work.

Hope all is well out west.

Keep them in the X ring.

Orangetom



posted on Nov, 23 2007 @ 11:21 AM
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Me too on the working hard bit.

Geez, I'm retired and 8-12 hours days are tough sometimes.

Worked 4-5 long days on getting the roadster ready for the nostalgia drags and blew a trailer tire about 50 miles out on the 140 mile trip to the tack.

Tire was properly inflated etc., temps at 46 degrees and just after dawn.

No damage, but without a 2nd spare I elected to come home.
Funny part is, I've been trying to find a pair of tires to match the two new ones - which were all I could find - but couldn't, so I gave it a try anyway.

About to give up on official 'trailer' tires and put some heavier rated pickup tires on it.

As you can see, the tire was quite flat....



Heck with it for a while, think I'll round up the guys and go shooting
Got a new but old - Remington 550-1 22 LR to try out....



[edit on 23-11-2007 by Desert Dawg]



posted on Nov, 23 2007 @ 03:24 PM
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reply to post by Desert Dawg
 


Hey Dawg,

Nice rifle. Also I notice this new photo format. I take it this is the way or wave of the future in photos on ATS/BTS. Where you can move them up or down in the borders. I have not posted any photos in awhile.

Also I notice in your rifle photo what appears to be a parts cleaning bin. I am planning in the future to get one myself. For right now I just clean in an olde 5 gallon bucket with some kerosene and a brush...compressed air. As I recall in another photo of yours some time back that there was a engine stand in the background. I take it by these evidences that you are no stranger to hand and power tools. Excellent!! There are times when I just like knocking around on a project out in my garage. I can hang out there almost all day and alot of the night.

Bought myself a bigger air compressor some years back ..from a small 20 gallon to a 60 gallon. What a difference. Compressed air can surely spoil youl. Next project down the road is to extend a hard line air manifold to the work bench in stead of dragging the hose everywhere in the garage.
Nice to have a garage too.

Was reading the rimfire site on how to change the springs in the Marlin triggers. Very simple modification..KISS ..keep it simple stupid. I love it.
Thanks again for the site..I am enjoying it.

Gotta go Dawg...things to do again around here,
Thanks for your post,
Orangetom



posted on Nov, 23 2007 @ 08:04 PM
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Yeah, just got the parts cleaner up on a roll around base and 10 gallons of mineral spirits within.

Some of my pals have tried the water based cleaners in their parts cleaners with unsatisfactory results.

With the lid closed you don't smell the mineral spirits, even on hot days.
The rollers allow it to be moved out of the garage when I'm welding.

I do a little machine work now and then.
I have a medium sized lathe and small mill which allows me to make a lot of interesting hot rod parts no one else has.

One of the guys I shoot with is a gunsmith and taught machinist and gunsmith classes at the college.
He's bailed me out of a few tight spots vis a vis firearms.

I build roadsters as noted previously and have built more than a few engines both stock and hopped up a bit.
Enjoying my latest one, a 462" Buick with all the good stuff, mild cam, moderate carburetion and 47,000 miles down the road it's still a strong runner.

If I can get the time, I have an interesting 'open' sight design for handguns that I'd like to try on my 6mm TCU Contender.
I think it will give me a decided advantage in the silhouette shoots for open sighted pistols.
It fits within the rules.

May not look too bad on the average semi-auto pistol, but probably not on the single actions.


The new model Super Blackhawk in 44 mag - what else
It now sports factory rosewood grips that are Tru-Oil finished.

The 9 1/2" Single Six with 22 mag cylinder has a Herret grip and a trigger shoe along with a modest amount of trigger work.
I call it my "Pocket Rifle."

Almost always it carries the mag cylinder, but it gets the 22LR cylinder at the holiday turkey shoots.
With that long barrel it's almost like cheating.
Brought home more than a few turkeys and hams with it.

I carry it in a belt holster when I take a centerfire rifle along and carry the 44 or 9mm when I carry a 22 rifle.
Most times the 44.

Just something about a cannon I guess....



posted on Nov, 23 2007 @ 10:08 PM
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Hello again Dawg,

Thanks again for the photos. Very nice wood on the revolvers. I like a good wheel gun.

Look olde man..I want your opinion on a project for down the road.

You mention a 6mm TCU in your last post. How satisfied are you with the performance of this caliber. I am considering the 7mm TCU as I have two barrels for my Contender. .223 and .35 Remington. I have been reading for years that the .223 is being wildcated to heavier calibers and I am sitting on some 3000 once fired cases. I believe the 7mm is a good compromise in hunting and bullet weight for longer ranges in this pistol. Looking to scope it down the road when I get the barrel.

Would like to know any peculearitys of handling and reloading from what you know of your 6mm TCU. I dont think it will be to far off from the 7mm TCU. I dont know many other people with this type of set up. I like the pistol very well but .223 is not suitable for everything.
.35 Remington is a bit much in this pistol in the 200 grain bullets. This is what got me to thinking about the .223 in its various wildcat configurations.

I know that there are 6mm, 6.5mm and 7mm configurations in this pistol and its various barrels.

Nevertheless what can you tell me about your 6mm configuration. Are you satisfied with its performance??

Thanks,
Orangetom



posted on Nov, 24 2007 @ 02:34 PM
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Originally posted by orangetom1999
Hello again Dawg,

Thanks again for the photos. Very nice wood on the revolvers. I like a good wheel gun.

Look olde man..I want your opinion on a project for down the road.

You mention a 6mm TCU in your last post. How satisfied are you with the performance of this caliber. I am considering the 7mm TCU as I have two barrels for my Contender. .223 and .35 Remington. I have been reading for years that the .223 is being wildcated to heavier calibers and I am sitting on some 3000 once fired cases. I believe the 7mm is a good compromise in hunting and bullet weight for longer ranges in this pistol. Looking to scope it down the road when I get the barrel.

Would like to know any peculearitys of handling and reloading from what you know of your 6mm TCU. I dont think it will be to far off from the 7mm TCU. I dont know many other people with this type of set up. I like the pistol very well but .223 is not suitable for everything.
.35 Remington is a bit much in this pistol in the 200 grain bullets. This is what got me to thinking about the .223 in its various wildcat configurations.

I know that there are 6mm, 6.5mm and 7mm configurations in this pistol and its various barrels.

Nevertheless what can you tell me about your 6mm configuration. Are you satisfied with its performance??

Thanks,
Orangetom




Very satisfied.
Shoots right at an inch with fire-forming loads.
100 yards which is the usual standard.
And a 4x scope which is perhaps limiting.
I thought about a higher power and at the time I got it the variable long eye relief scopes were fairly expensive.
A 2x7x would be the hot ticket.

Fairly sure I loaded 75 grain HP bullets, probably Sierra.
I checked my records and for some reason failed to note bullet type.
Part of the reason for the 75 grain bullets was that I'd planned to get a 223 barrel and figured I'd shoot 52, 55 or 60 grain 223 bullets and didn't want two almost identical bullet weights.
That happened with my sporter barrel 6mm Remington and varmint barrel 22-250 Ruger bolt action rifles.
The 22-250 shoots a 55 grain bullet the best and the 6mm shoots a 60 grain bullet the best.
Making them almost the same rifle in a manner of speaking.

Regardless, when I was shooting varmints with the 6mm I really liked the Sierra 85 grain HPBT bullet in it.
It was later that I tried the 60 grain 6mm bullets.


No problems with the Contender which has a 14" bull barrel.

Nice trigger from the factory as well.
All I did to this gun was clean the cardboard box dust out and put a little Gunslik grease on the sear.

7mm TCU would be a good choice considering that you have a 223 barrel - which I wish I'd bought for open sight use when they were a hundred bucks or so - and the 35.

I do like the 6.5mm TCU, but you have a better choice of bullets with the 7mm.
Even so, considering how well the 6.5's shoot you may want to think about it.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

You'll want to do some reading and a little research on "fire-forming" loads.
You can probably find some info on the Hodgon powder site.
They have loads listed for most calibers and nowadays the 6mm TCU is probably common and if no fire-forming loads are listed, the minimum load for that particular bullet weight should work fine.
Even so, a little research never hurts.

So here's the drill on reloading for the 6mm TCU.
A 7mm would be similar.

It's a little offbeat because in the early days of the public having the 6mm TCU and & 7mm TCU in their hands there were reports of a lot of case head separations.

The case head separations were caused by reloaders running the cases into and out of a 6MM TCU sizing die. (Same basic problem for the 7mm TCU.
That sounds reasonable and to an extent it is, but the case head separations were caused by excessive head space.

Since you're dealing with an oversize chamber with straighter walls than a 223 what was happening was that the unformed - for 6mm TCU - rattled around in the chamber a bit.
When the trigger was pulled, the firing pin drove the round forward.
The case obturates (swells) locking it in place.
Since the head was too far forward the case stretched toward the head and either broke away or the case was spoiled for any more reloading.
A properly fire-formed 6mm TCU case should give you quite a few reloading cycles.

For the 6mm TCU you'll need dies for 6mm TCU and 25-06.
The 25 caliber die doesn't have to be 25-06.
Neck size is what's important here.
257 Roberts etc. work fine.
You'll also need the gun or that particular TCU barrel on your gun because you'll use the gun as a gauge of sorts.

Start with new unfired brass.
Non-Military is preferred and after some experience reloading the 6mm TCU you can give the military 223 cases a try.
As you'll see, when and if you go to a military case you'll need to reset the 25 caliber sizing die.

If all you have is military 223 then by all means start from there.
I like commercial brass to start with and if you get some experience there the usually thicker case walls of the military stuff is no big deal.


Run the correct length and properly lubed cases in and out of the 6mm TCU sizing die.
Since you have a lot of 223 cases on hand, I suggest doing about 200 of them for fire-forming and go from there.

Next up is the 25 caliber sizing die.
A full size die works fine and I see no reason a neck sizing 25 caliber die couldn't be used.
The neck size dies are usually available singly so that could help.
I tend to buy the full set in a caliber I think I might have someday so my 25 caliber dies are 25-06.

Set the 25 caliber die so you're only neck-sizing.
By running the case into the 25 caliber die, you’re making a 25 caliber neck.

Set up the 6mm TCU die for neck sizing most of the way down, but not all the way.

Here's where using the gun as a gauge comes in.
Wipe the lube off, load the empty brass into the chamber and see if you can close the action.
If you can, you went too far down and if not, not quite far enough down.
What you want is to have the gun snap closed with a minimum of drag and not much added closing force on the action.

(Continued next post.)

[edit on 24-11-2007 by Desert Dawg]

[edit on 24-11-2007 by Desert Dawg]

[edit on 24-11-2007 by Desert Dawg]



posted on Nov, 24 2007 @ 02:35 PM
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(Continued from post above.)



The short length of 25 caliber neck sizing forms a ‘false’ shoulder so that when you fire the gun, firing pin strike will not drive the case forward and obturation will not cause a head separation because the case head is up against the back wall of the chamber.

Load the rounds as usual and if you’ve done things correctly you’ll find you have some nicely formed 6mm TCU brass after the fire-forming loads are fired.

Do inspect the cases after firing and pay special attention to any signs of thinning down near the head.
Bright ring on the outside or you can feel a step inside with a simple bent wire tool etc.

The 6.5mm and 7mm brass should go through a similar series of operations.

Don’t take too big a bite at once.
In other words, for the 6mm TCU, don’t simply size it to 25 caliber, but approach it in stages.
223 to 243 to 257 and back to 243.

Make a similar choice of case forming dies for the caliber you choose.

If you experience case neck splitting from the dies, you may want to anneal the cases after you’re about halfway or a little more to the chosen caliber for the false shoulder.
Brass case annealing is spelled out in most reloading manuals.

If I remember right, the 7mm TCU which was the 2nd TCU out with the 6.5mm TCU being the last - that I know about - the 7mm was the one with the most splitting problems.
It got to the point where you could buy 6mm and 7mm TCU brass sized for fire forming at the bigger gun shops.

You may want to think about the 6mm TCU.
Bullets are commonly available from 60 grains to 100 grains in many styles and if you want a heavier bullet, I believe some of the bullet specialty houses sell 6mm bullets up to 120 grains.

In my 6mm Remington rifle - before I got the 22-250 which was just for varmint hunting - I was very happy with the way it shot 60, 75, 85 and 100 grain bullets.
Although, with commonly available 7mm bullet weights of 100 - 175 grains the 7mm TCU would fit between the 223 barrel and 35 Remington barrel very nicely.

Not sure if I’ll ever want to use 100 grain bullets in my Contender, I’d rather have a rifle for deer hunting etc.
That said, I like the 85 grain HPBT (Hollow Point Boat Tail) bullets so well I may give them a try.
Right now, it’s shooting the 75's so well I’ll stick with them for a while.

So many choices, so little time....


Edits on both TCU posts done for clarification and correct wording.


[edit on 24-11-2007 by Desert Dawg]



posted on Nov, 25 2007 @ 12:52 AM
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Goodness Me Dawg,

My thanks for a long and detailed posts on the reloading and fire forming proceedures.

I believe you are correct. Some research on fire forming of cases is in order. The cases I have are from the Federal ammunition company. They were used in training the security forces at the local power plant. I think that they would qualify as commercial cases. I do not know if you have seen military brass of late. To me it looks like very cheap brass now a days. I have a few of those green tip military 5.56mm rounds. The brass they use is not impressive at all to me. I dont recall back when I was in military brass being so pitiful. Nonetheless I need to study those sites on fireforming.

I keep my Hornady reloading books right here by the computer and take them out to the garage when doing such work. I have both the new and olde books. Alot of new calibers and powders have come out over the last 20 years and I found myself needing to update. Quite a number of newer wildcat calibers too. I love reading up on the history of these calibers ..even the wildcat calibers which are now factory produced.

Yes ..even in these books they claim commercial cases work best rather than military cases

They are talking in the 6mm, 6.5mm, and 7mm TCU's to use a tapered neck expander tool, I am not exactly sure what this is or constitutes but I will find out.

Oh..and I also found out when resizing for my Contender barrel in .35 Remington that I needed to lube the cases generously to get the gun to close on the round properly..otherwise hard closing or not at all occured.

I am able to follow what you describe with the 25.06 die set...no problem here. Also understand about the false shoulder.

I notice that in my reloading manual in both 6.5mm and 7mm IMR 3031 powder is listed for many of the loads. This is also the powder that I use in loading for my SKS rifles meaning if it works out reasonably accurate I wont have to stock a different brand of powder. Nominal bullet weights look to be between 120 to 140 grains.

Understand about the 7mm being more prone to splitting. I will have to watch this more closely before making my final choice.

Yes...the Contender has one of the most beautiful factory triggers I have ever experienced. My Contender has a very light crisp pull. No or very minute mechanical take up of the trigger. Then when the gun has fired there is almost no over travel. A very beautiful and satisfying experience after most factory triggers. Definitely A-1.

Thanks Dawg for all the info. I will study more and research fire forming.

Keep em in the X ring,
Orangetom

[edit on 25-11-2007 by orangetom1999]



posted on Jun, 11 2008 @ 01:38 PM
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I'm a Marlin fan. All four of my 22's are Marlins. My favorite squirrel riles are my BA 981T and a LA 89A(an older model). I have shot various brands of ammunition in all of my rifles and have settled on the CCI Velocitor 22LRHP for two reasons.
1. I get consistent grouping out to 50 yards. I haven't shot targets out to 100 other than "plinking".
2. I get a higher kill ratio with the velocitor because of is volocity and HP. I shot CCI Stingers for a number of seasons, but I had to many get away. Winchester and Remington ammunition did not do as near as good as the CCI ammunition.

I use BSA Air Rifle scopes on these rifiles from which I get excellent clarify and a sharp focus out to 50 yards. The scopes are sturdy and surprisingly rugged

North Florida Squirrel Hunter



posted on Jun, 11 2008 @ 04:07 PM
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reply to post by orangetom1999
 


Try measuring rim thickness of each round seperating those rounds that measure similar thickness together,shooting them in lots. You may find several lots in a box of ammo. It is time consuming but it seems to work.



posted on Jun, 16 2008 @ 09:23 PM
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Eley Tenex was my choice when target shooting 14 years ago. Got my South African colors using Tenex with an Anschutz rifle - Great combination! Never hunted with a .22 though, the stuff I shot needed a .308 minimum (although I preferred a .375 -;-) - Impala, Kudu, Wildebeest, etc



posted on Jun, 16 2008 @ 09:54 PM
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I use cci for my ruger 10/22 and its pretty cheap on consistent.I also do most hunting with a marlin 25m in 22.mag thats been pretty good out to 150 yards using a 3x9x40 simmons.



posted on Sep, 4 2008 @ 11:30 PM
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I have the same 880sq Marlin that you shoot. I also use a Bushmaster ES2
'Shorty' with the Ciener .22 LR Adapter. I am a .22Cal fanatic [for best
accuracy] and shoot both rifles for hunting and 'Competition Match work.
When hunting 'Nutria' a Florida Pest imported to Louisiana by the owner of 'Louisiana Hot Sauce'. He did not mean any harm but they got loose in a 'Hurricane' and 20 has turned in to 2 Million. They love water, fresh or salt and tender planted crop roots. At 20 to 35 pounds each, they can tear up a field of corn, tomatoes or bell peppers in no time. I set up along a pond or canal and take both rifles and a Ruger 22/45 with 6" barrel with an
A W C 'supressor'. I have killed 11 from one spot in a three hour period. A
ten to one hundred twenty five yard is average. I shoot the ones within 60
yards with the pistol and do the long stuff with the rifles. The Marlin is by far the best Bolt Action for the money. The Bushmaster is a little more accurate at 200 yards. I Killed a 34 pounder at a measured 205 yards. The first shot broke its jaw and I emptied the magazine in 15 seconds [9 more shots] to stop it from running in the swampy field. I hit it a total of 7 times. The Aguila 22 Super Maximum Hyper Velocity 30 Grain copper plated hollow points, they are resistant @200 yards Rated at 1750 fps [my crono say 1625]. The Bushmaster has a 1/9 twist barrel. The Marlin Micro Groove barrel is the best shooter under $500.00, mine cost $180.00 about six years ago. On a windy day I use the CCI VELOCITOR 40 gr copper coated hollow points [advertised 1435 fps]. They drop a couple inches more @200 yards but one shot kills are the rule at 125 yards. I have an indoor range in my home and the Chrono is accurate, [Target] ammo that costs considerly more is almost always round nose lead and
rarely exceeds 1100 fps. That's good for shooting targets and close work on very small game, it not going to give the performance I have just listed.

Halfbreed II
Port Richey, FL



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