Timelessness and the reality of fate

Has anyone ever read that book? I suppose I could post a link to it on the web but I don't want to get the person who hosts it (hint hint) in any copyright trouble.

Anyways it's a book that goes on to prove how nothing (matter) can be proven that it's real and what recall surprised me was how strong it was backing it self up. I mean this book was as solid 2+2=4 (in our reality at least lol).

The book went on with dozens of scientific (from famous scientists such as Einstein and Hawking) facts to back up how the Universe was created by a creator (or something) and how delicate and un coincidental the whole thing was.

The book also had a few chapters proving how time is not real either and how it is possible to not have time, outside of our universe/reality that is.

Well what I'm basically saying is this book is very solid, and really surprised me in many ways of how it managed to stand it's ground.

There is only one thing I didn't like about the book. Is how it called the creator "Allah" and the author is in India. But don't start laughing and saying it's some nut's crazy religion babble. I just think the big picture of it is very good, it just happens to be that's what he "named" it according to his beliefs.

This book didn't effect my life in any way, but it's some good thought for the mind, was one of the most interesting books I have ever read.

Oh and what�s also strange is I kind of thought of a similar general idea that this book has a few months before it when chatting to a friend without ever reading anything like this before.

Well I could go on and actually explain all the points the book had, or perhaps even post a link to it if you think it�s safe. Just wondering if any of you have ever read anything like this and what your views are on this subject.

You can post a link to it...

You can download the book at this site--> www.harunyahya.com...

A general review of historical trends reveals that all anti-religionists base their philosophy on materialist thought. As is known, materialists deny the fact of creation. Instead, they maintain that matter has existed since time immemorial and will remain as an absolute entity for all eternity. In other words, they deify matter.

Seems interesting, I'm not familiar with it but intend to do some reading.

www.filez.neodi.net...

Ok I guess there is your link, enjoy it

[Edited on 17-1-2004 by NEODI]

Hmm, it doesn't look like anyne is interested, it's a really good book and definetly worth any time you have to take to read it. I would like to hear your thoughts about it if anyone tried to yet.

They never did. One thing does not become something else without some kind of direction, intervention or plan. Call it programming. Time, as a concept of system and limitation in this code, does indeed exist, but how we measure it is a relative thing and how we perceive it is yet another. But the problem is that our human, call it godless, world, relies on a system which obviously cuts the head off of the person who knows the truth, and crucify the man who is able to explain and knows how to handle it. A cat may be unable to change a lightbulb, but he manages to live and let live better than the most rightious king and without even demanding anything in return. He doesn't know how to build a house and pay it's costs; he simply moves in when we have built it, and as long as the owner of the house serves him food, he stays. Kinda makes me wonder who is really the wisest: Man or the cat he thinks he owns.

Believe it or not: The wars and persecutions of the past came about because of decisions we make today, how absurd it may sound, but this is the plain reality. Time indeed it does exist, but there are roads around it. It isnot absolute. History is the concequence of one man's life, and the general uncertainty around this man's fait. That is why it seems to repeat itself over and over, each and every generation. It's a constant war going on and it has been rolling since day one, when Man broke his first promise and demanded full control over the course of time, his destiny and his selfish sense of judgement. In simple words: Man chose his enemy instead of his love, he chose himself, and gave him the throne above his head without even having such power and without being able to fulfill it. Man became a slave of his own deceit, without even knowing why. Most of us still don't, we're still caught up in the web of our own desires we call life and the consequences of our folly which we call the truth and reality. For it doesn't hurt as much as the real truth and the real reality. Real life.

Evasion of consequence became Man's god. And his enemy did like every wise enemy always has done: he served a simple choice, but through a calculated lie he dictated it's outcome: To turn man into his own enemy by limiting his freedom of choice by serving food to his desire, in order to kill him by making him kill himself. And the enemy of Man thought he could kill the shame of loss away through killing him who gave him life. God created Man. Man created Satan. Nothing of what Man has made can last forever, for Man is not forever. We were created. And we will be turned into something else.

The Enemy has a selfish dream of rewarding rightiousness with deceit, by the illusive strength of pride and indifference. But some have deeper insight. The Enemy knows the truth. OK. He knows how simple everything in reality is, and he has prooven so many times for God that we're not worthy of life. But he has forgotten the simple consequence of this "simplicity": The last man standing wins the battle, but not nessasarily the hearts of the rightious refugee. For what is left to love when everyone and everything is dead? How long will we kill our heroes when they find the truth through hard work in faith of the only thing that's real? We claim to do the right thing, but even the dog understands the folly and runs away in shame.

The day we understand that trees are wiser than any man can ever be; it loves, lives and lets live without a single expectation or a single demand. That an erupting volcano is more loving than any mother could ever become, it may take away your life, but only in order to sustain Life. That we are slaves of fear and folly seeded by ourselves and that stubborn faith in this reality as something real and everlasting. It's all vain due to the blinding effects of our stubborn, self-centered ego, the limitations we have cursed our minds with, indoctrinated ourselves by this we choose to call reality which is everything but real. A blinding illusion of our own desires and wishful thinking. And the king in this illusion isn't Love but a silly hope to get away with cold blooded murder, senseless torture and godless hate. The concequence of our false security, founded on indifferent deals with the enemy. We sell our children to the wolves in order to keep our sanity. We sell away their ordeal in order to sustain an illusion of freedom. But the ship is still sinking and the captain goes down with it. Or so it seems. Noone really knows for sure.

Everything which is real we overlook and cast away as something stupid. While everything which is really stupid we try to sustain to kill away the pain of loss, the consequence of our ignorance. We will all loose if we continue to call the only winner our enemy and our only enemy our king. Children see this, they can't understand why we do what we do, they concentrate their lives on what's eternal if they are only given the choice and brave protection. The reason we often can't explain what they ask about, is that we have surrendered to conformity and explain everything with what someone else has already said before. We donot understand anything anymore. We just copy and paste what dead people said and was rediculed for in their own time. The greatest artists all died in poverty. Nevertheless we sell their work for money, worth a multiplum of their total income throughout their entire lives. For our "reality" is the easiest thing to manipulate, and man is the easiest species to persuade, domesticate and control. But Love cannot be conquered, ordered, denied or destroyed. The more it is suppressed, the more the Enemy fights it, the stronger it will be, and the greater the dream about it -- the longing for it -- becomes.

The irony of the destiny of Man: Serve Man rightious truth and he will hate you, even hunt you down and kill you. But serve him the lie he so much desires and he will give you a crown of gold.

Blessings,
Mikromarius

[Edited on 20-1-2004 by mikromarius]

nicely put, mikromarius.
memetics 101.

Originally posted by NEODI
There is only one thing I didn't like about the book. Is how it called the creator "Allah" and the author is in India.

What is wrong with that? I just don't see the point. Could someone please guide me to the light.

Originally posted by surfup

Originally posted by NEODI
There is only one thing I didn't like about the book. Is how it called the creator "Allah" and the author is in India.

What is wrong with that? I just don't see the point. Could someone please guide me to the light.

On the surface there is nothing wrong with what the author is saying. After all, he is talking about "Timelessness" and "Fate" in terms of Science and Philosophy and the links between the two. Since the author is obviously most familiar with Islam and the Qur'an, that is what he's chosen to represent his Philosophical side. Personally I don't find any problem with this either, in fact it seems necessary for the structure of the book. However, upon reading more of what he had to say I can see where there is a possible problem developing.

Quoted from the link:

Materialists, however, cannot accept the fact that matter is not absolute but was created, even at the cost of conflicting with science. To accept this fact would require them to accept the existence of Allah, and to believe in Allah would require them to accept religion and lead religious lives. As religion primarily requires definite obedience and submission to Allah, this would prove to be troublesome for such people as are blinded by their own arrogance.

Today, modern science verifies facts announced by the Qur'an 1400 years ago, which are unequivocally believed in by the believers. This bears witness that the Qur'an is the word of Allah.

The example given above is where I see "Possible" Indoctrination of Religious Dogma & Control Meathods being used to claim ultimate authority and rightfull ownership of All that is "Divine/of God/etc."

I haven't read the entire thing so I may be wrong or jumping to conclusions without reason. What I mean to say is that the Religion of Islam isn't the only case where Modern Science, specifically Quantum Physics/Mechanics, is now showing to be in agreement with each other. Taoist, Hindu and Buddhist "Theology/Cosmology/Philosophy" have also been found to be in agreement by todays Scientific Standards. It should also be noted that all three of them date back even further than the Qur'an, of 1400 years ago. Plus neither Taoist or Buddhist Philosophy/Teachings have "Dieties or Godlike Figures" such as "Allah" or "Zeus" or "Shiva" etc.

This is where statements like "definite obedience and submission to Allah" come across as "questionable" to me personally and makes me wonder if there is a "Hidden Agenda" behind the authors writtings. The endless rumble between many Religions as to "Who is the Most Right/Correct?" really needs to stop. The simularities between them all should be discussed instead, as well as their Unification/Acceptence of each others ideas.

Again, I'm not saying this author is "Preaching" his Religious Views as the "Only Right One" or Purposely Avoiding Comment of other valid perspectives. As I said before, I haven't read his whole book yet. This is just my observational opinion at this point. I may just need to read more to get the whole picture of what he's saying. The following quote leads me to believe that he does in fact mention other Religions/Philosophies as well.

The latest point reached by science today verifies the fact that "the universe was created out of nothing," as is maintained by the Qur'an and all other divine religions. In addition, modern science has disproved materialism and all its sub-ideologies, destroyed the matter-dependent world of materialists, and defeated them in the war they waged against creation.

Well what I meant by that statement is I�m not going to dedicate myself or my beliefs towards any religion or specific god. I think you are right and since that person is Islamic or whatever they just applied their beliefs to it. But when I read it, I look at it is a good concept, but I don�t pay attention to the way it�s labeled. I believe it but I don�t say I�m all for Islam. I just believe there is a god/creator (and I don�t call him anything by that) and I believe what the author tries to explain is true. I hope you understand what I mean.

I only pay attention to facts and solid proof and scientific related things when it comes to religion and �the big picture� of things. Anything beyond that loses my interest. That�s why I enjoyed this book so much because like I said if you don�t pay attention how he applies his religious beliefs to it, the solid side of it is rather nice and convincing.

Originally posted by billybob
nicely put, mikromarius.
memetics 101.

Well, it's the truth most people are too limited to understand. So thanx, allthough I don't believe in biologic evolution which is often used to discribe memetics. I believe the only evolution that has occured would be the creative evolution of the mind of God when speeking of the species. He made a species, got tired of it's weaknesses and strengths, made something new using whatever shapes he fancied at each crossroad. Computer programs don't evolve by themselves. The reason they become more and more advanced is that our knowledge and needs evolve. To believe something else is the deal with our genes is absurd. Today we can even create and modify genes ourselves. We can travel to other planets, even send probes to neighbouring stars. In a couple of decades we will possibly be able to colonise planets and satelites in our own system, and in yet some decades, we could complete thr first interstellar journey. To believe something else was the deal when we were created is to me totally absurd.

Blessings,
Mikromarius