My Smokers' Rights: Plus a few questions for my fellow addicts.

I feel smoking doesnt kill people and neither does second hand smoke. Second hand smoke would be equivilent to breathing in polluted air, which is all around us. I remember once in school, they compared a person's lungs who smoked most of there life to a someone who lived in a well populated city all there life. Both pictures of their lungs looked exactly the same. The cigarette company, is a MULTI-BILLION dollar industry, and the government's are very well aware of this. Now, how hard would it be to persuade the public that second hand smoke causes cancer of the lungs and anyone who smokes within 20 ft of you could increase chances of lung cancer greatly?
If,I am correct this is ATS, but yet so many of you, buy into what the government feeds you about every day ordinary life. And yet you see a video of a rocket skipping across the ground and you think its, a UFO or something topsecret. If you would put in half the effort into debunking why cancer exists, you would find the multiple reasons in what causes cancer. There is no one cause. With all the toxins we have in this world today, you just can't point your finger at one thing.
Cigarette smoking is unhealthy, it puts the icing on the cake so to speek. But, what about flouride and chlorine which are bascially pure poision, which are in our drinking water unless you have well water. In a subtle way,I feel it's discrimination and they (government) are testing the public to see what they can get away with as far as taking our rights away from us. The power of fear can go along way, which is a great tool of the government. It starts with bad habits but, when they strip your right to bear arms, don't come within 20 ft of me because I just might blow smoke in your face.

It's a tricky balance. I'm a non smoker. I will eat in a smoking section, but truth told I would rather not have to, if given a choice. There is a reason why smoke free restaurants succeed and smokers only restaurants don't for the most part.

I know it's one of those things that you can't please everyone, trust me. I used to run a restaurant where I had to have both non and smoking sections, my parent company wouldn't allow me to go totally smoke free.

I always had a wait for non and no one would sit in the smoking. I ended up moving the smoking to the front of the restaurant to free up more tables for the non smokers and eliminate the waits they were experiencing. Guess what happened. I got my butt chewed out all the time by people saying " I can't believe you made me walk through all that smoke" when seating the non smokers. You just can't win either way.

There should be limitations on smoking indoors when it affects nonsmokers but the outside bans and not being able to smoke in your own home is crazy IMO.

reply to post by vox2442


That is simply beautiful.

An all smoking restaurant?

Smoking at the airport??? (christ, the one and only time I've EVER been allowed to smoke in an airport was in Frankfurt, Germany. And last I heard, there's only one airline that maintains a smoking section (Lufthansa) and I'm flyin' with them next time.)

I think I've found heaven... a place where people are allowed to make their own choices and, so long as they follow the reasonable rules, allowed to discover their own mistakes without being hassled. That, right there, is true freedom.

Simply beautiful.

****

I've said it before, I'll say it again:

If we're starting the "Let's Get Healthy!" bandwagon, then let's follow through to its logical end -- that being we (as in every single person) do not own, use, or purchase ANYTHING that is in any way unhealthy.

I understand -- one thing at a time. And, under normal circumstances, I'm all for that.
But I see no 'next step' to this battle. I see no 'plan' in any meaningful sense of the term involved in this anti-smoking agenda.

Just a whole lot of bashing and pointing of fingers at other people without, by the by, any sign of having the intestinal fortitude to point that judgmental finger back at themselves.

[edit on 28-8-2007 by Diseria]

Originally posted by Aaron_Justin
Well, Mr. Moderator, someone being ugly or dessing funny are merely opinions. Now eyes burning, food tasting bad, increased chances of disease, bad breat, clothes stinking, these are all facts. I would suspect a moderator would know the difference.

Exactly, nail on the head. Now if you are ugly and your momma dresses you funny, then that is all conjecture, someone's opinion. But, when it comes to smokers, I have to quicken my step and take a wide berth to pass you in the street. You stink. Your hair stinks. Your clothes reek. Your skin stinks. The smoke emanating from your cigarette is poisonous and I get choky on the mere whiff of it. I'm sure I'm allergic to it. These are all facts. Smokers all carry that same 'smell'. On their clothes. On their skin. Their hair. Then to top it off, the cigarette itself is unbearable even if you catch a whiff of it, I will guarantee to start sneezing and if the smell gets stronger, I end up in a coughing fit, gagging.

Both my parents were heavy smokers when I was little, and I forced them to give up. I made a huge fuss when travelling in the car, or even at home by the kitchen table. There was no way in the world I was going to let my parents bequeath me a second-hand premature death by lung disease. Now, in my opinion they should tax smokers out of existence.

Now, now, I love the smell of a good cigar, or pipe tobacco, leaves burning in the fall, and the smell of a campfire.

To each his own I guess.




[edit on 28-8-2007 by Stormdancer777]

Oh wah away. I'm a member of this site as you all are. To bring in the fact that I also have the responsibilty of keeping it clean for the members is not only lame, it's pathetic. I'm human, as the rest of the membership is and damn it. I'm allowed my opinion, the same as the rest of you.

So I wouldn't mind if you got off of the high horse. Non-smokers. Jeez.

Cold, hard, unforgiving addiction; One of the strongest if not THE strongest overall addiction that any human being can be a victim of.

Those who've never had this kind of addiction need to realize that the hold that these things can have on you is something a non-smoker can only imagine.

Here are some cold realities of tobacco that most smokers won't talk about because it's embarrassing to discuss just how helpless they are to battle this addiction:

Some people with emphesyma still smoke, they can't stop even though they can hardly breathe. Some people who know they have lung cancer, still smoke even though taking a puff physicall hurts them. Even some people who've had throat cancer and had their voicebox removed, will go through the degradation and humiliation of still smoking cigarettes through a little hole in their neck. That is just how addictive these things are, it is a power over you so strong that I don't know adequate words to describe it.

Any non-smoker who looks at a smoker and thinks what a fool they are for choosing to have such a nasty habit... it is they who are the true fool because they haven't a clue on earth what a demon that tobacco truly is. It can own you.

People say things like "well you can quit, lots of people have quit so don't say you can't, that's just a cop out..." Those are the people I wish someone would smack the ignorance out of. All people aren't made the same, addiction to tobacco is far more severe in some people than others. One person might quit in a week, one might quit over five years time... but unfortunately a lot of smokers will never be able to kick the habit.

Anyone who ridicules and makes fun of smokers, deserves to sweep ashes in Hell as far as I'm concerned.

reply to post by fweshcawfee


I used to smoke only as a social thing with a few drinks, I never did get addicted to it.

Good for you .

Glad to hear it.

Would all the non smokers, please put their hand up if they drive a vehicle with an combustion engine.

Nuff said.

Stop with the hypocrisy - we all pollute, one way or another.
When you're pollutant free, come and tell me about my bad habit.

BTW, it's not like I don't know - so get off the soapbox and examine your own life before you tell me what to do

I smoked approx 20 years, A pack aday of marlboros. My wife got pregnant and on the 3rd day of me not smoking she told me to find something to smoke or she would kill me.
That when i picked up the pipe. $25 for a cheap Dr. Graybow and $20 for a pound of cheap tobacco. I have not looked back sense. I smoke better pipes and tobbaco now. A pound cost $35 including shipping and my pipes cost between $40 and $100.
I bum a cig everynow and then but they taste terrible now.
I am happier and you dont get as much BS from non smokers. Also my smoking habits have changed and the crevings are not as bad.

For all the non smokers out there, How does my smoke effect you when I am 50 feet away and we are out side? How do you know that my second hand smoke effected your heart and not the extra 40 pound you are carrying around your middle.

wow, I'm amazed at the overall positive response this thread has received.

Though the thread got derailed from the tax issue, I actually feel it has turned out to be more interesting.

Nice to see the opinions of some of the NAZI type nonsmokers here. Those of you nonsmokers that have been respectful though, I must say THANK YOU.


A smoker these days will generally respect you and your rights to not breathe in our addiction as long as you respect our own rights to breathe in our own addiction.

I don't know about alot of my fellow smokers, but for me, smoking is a PLEASURE more than anything else. There is nothing like having a smoke after a hard day of work or after a long and stressful situation.

And they just TASTE SO DAMN GOOD!!!!! hahaha.





Jasn

The taxes are ludicrous - the government is taking advantage of people with a serious addiction and that's all there is to it.

I've been smoking for almost fifteen years, and I don't plan on quitting anytime soon. One of the primary reasons I can't/won't quit, is I'm afraid I'll become like you non-smokers...

A friend of mine, a few years back, he quit smoking and, practically overnight, became the most self-important gas-bag I've ever known. He was so full of himself it made me want to start kicking him in the shins on a regular basis.

He started up again after a few months, and shut his mouth after that. I very nearly threw a party to celebrate, it was such a welcome relief from the constant sour milk face, the know-it-all attitude, the superior tone in his voice.

God forbid I should ever turn into him...



Smokers are responsible for their own health. Non-smokers are NOT responsible for the health of smokers (so relax, take a breather, put your feet up, maybe find a hobby that doesn't involve pissing people off).

I have no problem whatsoever if a bar or club owner wants to make their establishment non-smoking - that's their choice as far as I'm concerned. I just won't give them my money - easy enough. What pisses me off, though, is a bunch of bureaucrats deciding on behalf of business owners. That's not American!

Final thought: cigarettes are a scapegoat for the cancer epidemic, a scapegoat much beloved by the pharmaceutical, plastics, petroleum, and chemical cartels.

/rant

Originally posted by Darth Logan
I feel smoking doesnt kill people and neither does second hand smoke. Second hand smoke would be equivilent to breathing in polluted air, which is all around us. I remember once in school, they compared a person's lungs who smoked most of there life to a someone who lived in a well populated city all there life. Both pictures of their lungs looked exactly the same. The cigarette company, is a MULTI-BILLION dollar industry, and the government's are very well aware of this. Now, how hard would it be to persuade the public that second hand smoke causes cancer of the lungs and anyone who smokes within 20 ft of you could increase chances of lung cancer greatly?
If,I am correct this is ATS, but yet so many of you, buy into what the government feeds you about every day ordinary life. And yet you see a video of a rocket skipping across the ground and you think its, a UFO or something topsecret. If you would put in half the effort into debunking why cancer exists, you would find the multiple reasons in what causes cancer. There is no one cause. With all the toxins we have in this world today, you just can't point your finger at one thing.
Cigarette smoking is unhealthy, it puts the icing on the cake so to speek. But, what about flouride and chlorine which are bascially pure poision, which are in our drinking water unless you have well water. In a subtle way,I feel it's discrimination and they (government) are testing the public to see what they can get away with as far as taking our rights away from us. The power of fear can go along way, which is a great tool of the government. It starts with bad habits but, when they strip your right to bear arms, don't come within 20 ft of me because I just might blow smoke in your face.

Thank you. You nailed it.

Admitadly, I don't care for the way my house smells due to smoking indoors so I go outside of my own house to smoke.

When I am in public, I am tired of the fake coughing & offended looks that people will give me when I go outside for a cigarette.
You don't like it, sit inside.
I try to be considerate around non smokers that I know.
If they don't like it, I try not to smoke around them.

I come from a huge family of smokers and the only person to suffer from any illness is my uncle who has emphysema.

I think all the "risks" linked to smoking is propeganda and nothing more.
Just more excuses for the health nazis to make excuses to make your life difficult.
We are seeing this start up now with the obesity trend.

I enjoy smoking and nothing is going to change that and nobody is going to stop me.




[edit on 28-8-2007 by morbidtracie]

There is a small suburb outside of Kansas City, on the Kansas side that recently banned smoking in all public places. Several bars and restaurants have gone out of business. Finally some of the more established places that have been around for years and years decided to go "private" to get around the law. These places don't even charge for a membership, just fill out a form they give you a membership card, viola, smoking!

I myself have been smoking since I was 16 years old and I intend to quit one day, simply because I do not like the smell. The reason it will be so hard to quit is because I like it so much. They need better smelling cigs.

Has anyone seen that show with Penn & Teller called BS. They did an episode on all the bs hype about second hand smoke. The conclusion......it does not cause cancer.

Now as for taxes, I live in Kansas and these rich uppity types will tax you for looking at their hummer if they could get away with it. So I stick to buying my smokes on the Missouri side. 3.25 after tax. 4.25 in Kansas after tax.

Let's for a moment think about things logically shall we non-smokers? What if tomorrow smoking became illegal? Do you know how many tobacco farmers would go out of business, do you know how many tobacco companies would go out of business, do you know how many employees would be laid off of work at those tobacco companies, do you know how many U.S. tax dollars would be gone forever? The economy would literally crash if this happened overnight. It will crash slowly if this happened over time. Imagine millions of people suddenly out of work in an instant.

Please get off your high horses and suck it up........literally!!!!

[edit on 28-8-2007 by Cowgirlstraitup7]

As a smoker, the prices are what bothers me most. However, I'm a bit two sided on this debate.
I live in Canada, and on one hand, given the statistics ( if they are true ), I can understand why they would want to impose such restrictions. Higher taxes help cover the health care. (its 10$ a pack where I am)
On the other hand, I find alcohol to be much more harmful than tobacco, yet drinking is socially accepted everywhere, and many people do it daily, and many people can also become dangerous when they're drunk.

Although, I realize its bad for me, and maybe one day when prices really get out of hand, they almost have lol, and if they ever come to banning it entirely, that would just be one step closer to better health.

In the mean time, this topic just made me want to light another one

fweshcawfee, about how powerful you were saying it is, one of the warning labels on our cigarette packs is that smoking can be as addictive and hard to quit as heroin
(without death from withdrawl of course lol)

reply to post by ju stab urden


actually, I think most hardcore addictions can kill you if stopped abruptly. I kow alcohol can (thanx to forensic files haha) as well as antidepressants. Cigs would not surprise me at all being as it would be a huge shock to your system.


Jasn

Honestly, I find it petty, childish and rediculous how some of you actually have the idea to compare cigarettes and car pollution. Am...I don't have cars in my office. They don't drive through the restaurant emitting their filth. Cars, I have to face at certain points...cigarettes...I have to face nearly everywhere; while I'm standing waiting for a taxi(I'm too poor to afford a car), and when I get into the taxi...when I leave the taxi, when I enter the office....& the list can go on. Thank goodness their banning the act of smoking in some public places. It's a much needed breather.

And honestly, the cancer doesn't bother me. I don't like smoking or smelling nicotine simply because to me & most people, it just doesn't smell or taste good. It's mostly a turn off to most people.

Ofcourse, an SUV speeding down the road, blowing large amounts of exhaust fumes out it's tail pipe does bother me also. You know what I do when that happens? ...usually, I move...because I can move...so I do move...in most cases. Ever been late for work...much traffic on the road? Catching a taxi is hard work due to the amount of people trying to do the same thing? Running late? Finally you get a taxi after 20 minutes. The guy sitting next to you pulls one out & sparks it up without a care in the world & no consideration for you...not even an attempt to blow the smoke out the window after you asked him? You have a choice of...simply moving, i.e, getting out of the taxi, wait maybe another 10 minutes(if you're lucky), keep in mind you're already 20 to 30 minutes late. Or...you just have to bare with that crap for another 15 mins in the ride 'til you get to work and let your boss know it won't happen again, while he's blowing his disgusting smoke into your face.

Thank god I'm my own boss now.

They're also studies that show that nicotine and other chemicals have negative effects on the male & female reproductive organs...such as erectile dysfunction and dryness of the vagina. Ofcourse, they could be lying to us so that we stop puttin money in their pockets...or maybe they're just lying to us. Doesn't matter...it still smells like crap. Atleast, I don't have to put up with it at home.

Thank god cars don't pass through the restaurants stinking up the place with their carbon dioxide...I''ve got you inconsiderate smokers to do that for me.

I may not smoke, find it on the gross side, but I'm all for rights of smokers. Just like alcohols rising prices, it's all about making money, not trying to get smokers to stop. You can't even smoke in parks in California and in most states, public places like bars and clubs, which most likely caused a lot of money loss to these places. Of course it's not safe to have cigs lighting parks on fires and club smoke almost choking a non smoker, but what about the freedom?