Safety fears over new register of all children

Safety fears over new register of all children

www.timesonline.co.uk

Senior social workers have given warning of the dangers posed by a new government register that will store the details of every child in England from next year.

They fear that the database, containing the address, medical and school details of all under-18s, could be used to harm the children whom it is intended to protect.
.... information about the children of celebrities and politicians is likely to be excluded from the system.

(visit the link for the full news article)

WTF is this for?

I especially like the sentence:

"Regulations governing the system, which is costing £224 million to build and a further £41 million a year to run, were rushed through parliament without publicity last month, despite the warning of a House of Lords committee."

UK Big Brother takes another massive step forward - I suppose the mandatory post natal chip implant will not be far behind.

www.timesonline.co.uk
(visit the link for the full news article)

[edit on 27-8-2007 by RogerT]

[edit on 27-8-2007 by RogerT]

wow this is kinda shocking.. especially this part.. "... information about the children of celebrities and politicians is likely to be excluded from the system."

go figure..

what could be done with this type of information?

furthermore, why is this necessary?

reply to post by The Phantom


My thoughts exactly.

there's a suggestion as to why it came about in the article "ContactPoint was set up after the official report into the death of Victoria Climbié. Lord Laming concluded that the eight-year-old’s murder could have been prevented had there been better communication between professionals. "... sounds a bit 9/11 to me.

I wonder if DNA from the children will be also taken, I tell you people protest and protest until you made the government stop this outrage take of your children privacy rights.

Well the brits have done a good job so far resisting the id card, although it looks like that one's soon to be in the bag for BB.

There'll be a fight over the DNA thing, of course with the usual conformist chant of 'if you're not a criminal you've nothing to worry about'

Blown out of proportion this story.

Firstly, "celebs" and certain politicians children are not exempt from the database. Based on a risk assessment, their details may be omitted from the main database, but will still be there for cleared users to access, not every user.

Secondly, this is all information they already have. The problem is the dispersal of the information around a multitude of various sources. Having it all in one place makes it alot easier to manage.

I have a child as does my girlfriend. Cannot say I am worried about this, as they already have the information. This just centralises it.

I have a child as does my girlfriend. Cannot say I am worried about this, as they already have the information. This just centralises it.

Stutmason, nothing worries you. You just accept more and more until you'll end up in a modern Hitlerian State. Even then you'll say that there's no police state. Wake up men.

Originally posted by Vitchilo

I have a child as does my girlfriend. Cannot say I am worried about this, as they already have the information. This just centralises it.

Stutmason, nothing worries you. You just accept more and more until you'll end up in a modern Hitlerian State. Even then you'll say that there's no police state. Wake up men.

Things worry me. But already collected data does not. I actually worry about real things rather than taking something, spinning the hell out of it, panic about the most extreme and unlikely scenario and then getting my knickers in a twist because my tin foil hat slipped off....

Sorry to say I'm not one to cry about the sky falling every five minutes. How on earth you think our political system can become a "Hitlerian State" baffles me.

reply to post by stumason


The problem is that a child has not choice, the choice by the times he or she grows into adult will be already take and dictated for them.

This no the future that any child should be submitted too without his or her consent.

Sad future indeed.

Well said Marg,
There is no choice in the matter,and like Stumason said the government want all this information centralised.
Reason?So that they can make lots of money by selling information to other companies,and targeting people with pharmaceuticals,among other things.
By the time our current 5 year olds are 20,they will have lost all notion of the concept of "privacy",hell the word will probably have been erased from existence by then at this rate...
Sad state of affairs,when you look at how this will most likely develop over the years.

Unfortunately stumason appears to be the only person on this thread speaking sense and, perhaps unsurprisingly, he also appears to be the only one who has actually taken the time to fully understand what this database is for and why it is being set up.

Questions asked so far are:

WTF is this for? - To provide better access for practitioners and other child welfare services to basic information about children to try to avoid another appalling tragedy like that of Victoria Climbie as recommended in the 2003 Laming Report.

What could be done with this type of information... ...why is this necessary? - The information can be used to ensure that all child welfare services are aware of each others work and efforts are not duplicated or ignored. It is necessary because an enquiry identified that the lack of such a database contributed to the death of a child under horrific circumstances in the past.

I wonder if DNA from the children will be also taken - No it won't, the database will only contain basic identifying information, contact points for parents and schools and details of doctors or other agencies working with the child. All of this data is already available but not in a coordinated form.

All of this information is set out in detail at Every Child Matters
for anyone who actually wants to understand the issue before they embark on the usual ill informed rants about big brother and police state.

I honestly wonder why any politician ever bothers to try and achieve anything in public life. If another child died as a result of poor availability of information or inadequate cooperation between welfare services they would be castigated by the massed ranks of the hand wringers, but as soon as they try to improve the situation in a manner suggested by an independent public enquiry they are lambasted for doing that as well.

Some people are just never happy unless they're having a damned good moan.





[edit on 28-8-2007 by timeless test]

"I wonder if DNA from the children will be also taken - No it won't, the database will only contain basic identifying information,"

Maybe at the moment-but the Uk cops have been collecting DNA from children as I am sure you realise.How long before that gets centralised and compiled into the government database?

"Half a million children have had their DNA recorded on Britain's police database, the government admitted yesterday.

The number of people being added to the police DNA database is rising rapidly, with a total of 667,737 people added to the database last year, home secretary John Reid said in a parliamentary written answer yesterday."

www.nowpublic.com...

not just for kids either:

www.timesonline.co.uk...

www.guardian.co.uk...

But all thats just fine and dandy isn't it?

I cannot understand why, some members are not concerned about childrens details being held on a central database. How do we know that this is 100% safeproof and not open to exploitation.

And I cannot understand why parents are not concerned with regards to thousands off children DNA being take and stored without the parents knowledge or consent.

If I was a parent, I for one would be asking for reassurance from the authorities to make sure that this database, wont be open to exploitation. And asking why my child's DNA was being held also.

[edit on 28-8-2007 by spencerjohnstone]

Originally posted by spencerjohnstone
How do we know that this is 100% safeproof and not open to exploitation. .

We don't which is the entire point of the Times article and this is an important point - what a pity that rather than discussing it the thread has so far consisted almost entirely of people attacking the principle behind the database which is intended to protect children

I cannot understand why parents are not concerned with regards to thousands off children DNA being take and stored without the parents knowledge or consent.

As a parent I would be much more concerned about what my children had been doing in order to get themselves arrested in the first place, and if my child had been arrested I would certainly know about it whether I consented to them giving a DNA sample or not

What I find quite amazing about threads of this kind is that some of those that post here will be the same members who complain bitterly on other threads that the police are not doing their jobs and our society is in some kind of yob culture driven meltdown and yet attempt to deny the police the tools to do their job properly.

Originally posted by Silcone Synapse

"Half a million children have had their DNA recorded on Britain's police database, the government admitted yesterday.But all thats just fine and dandy isn't it?

Yes it is as the children that have had their DNA taken are the scum that stab and shoot and beat people and steal and damage and hurt and hate.
It will be far easier to find those scum responsible for crimes when their DNA is stored.


[edit on 28/8/07 by Chorlton]

Sorry Chorlton,but that is not the whole picture is it?

"The number of innocent children placed on the Government's vast DNA database for life has quadrupled in the past year to more than 100,000, it has emerged.

The astonishing increase, which follows a controversial change to the law, was described by opposition MPs as an "extremely sinister development".

It will fuel concerns that police are targeting for arrest youngsters who have done nothing wrong, simply to get their hands on their DNA. "

Yes its from

www.dailymail.co.uk...

here are some more:

www.theregister.co.uk...

www.counciloftruth.com...


So not all of the DNA samples belong to degenerate scum.

"As a parent I would be much more concerned about what my children had been doing in order to get themselves arrested in the first place, and if my child had been arrested I would certainly know about it whether I consented to them giving a DNA sample or not"

Hmm TT,what gives you the impression you would have to give consent to allow the police to take DNA samples from your kids?
Also,are you not at all concerned that at some point in the future this DNA database may prevent our children from applying for certain jobs and/or getting life insurance-even maybe being labeled as potential criminals/terrorists/subversives/undesirables under some future regime?
I am concerned myself.

reply to post by Silcone Synapse


I am fully aware that no consent is required in order for a DNA sample to be taken. Perhaps I didn't phrase my answer very clearly. The point is that the parent of a juvenile has to be informed that they have been arrested so there is no question of a DNA sample being taken without your knowledge and consent is, in my view, a non-issue. Arrest is by definition not a consensual process.

The DNA database cannot be used for the purposes you describe and neither can DNA tests generally at the moment. If the law is changed to allow the use of DNA data to affect eligibility for insurance or various forms of jobs, (why?), then the agencies concerned will simply demand DNA samples from the individual concerned at the appropriate time; they will certainly not depend on a police administered database with only partial coverage, that would be idiotic.

The use of DNA data for these purposes would be a serious concern but that is not what the current police database is about.

...and please, if you you need an impartial and intelligent view on a serious subject please for the love of God keep away from the thoroughly madcap Tory party house newspaper that is the Daily Mail and try to avoid unsubstantiated nonsense from David Davis as well. The Daily Mail quoting David Davis should be treated with the utmost caution.

Hey TT,thanks for replying in a rational manner with good points,again.

"The DNA database cannot be used for the purposes you describe"

As i said,not at the moment-but in the future this is at least a possibility I believe.

"...and please, if you you need an impartial and intelligent view on a serious subject please for the love of God keep away from the thoroughly madcap Tory party house newspaper that is the Daily Mail and try to avoid unsubstantiated nonsense from David Davis as well. The Daily Mail quoting David Davis should be treated with the utmost caution."

I hear you,but the papers which purport to be in opposition to these "right winger" papers are owned by the very same people are they not?
Once again,thanks for your rational argument.