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Originally posted by anti72
they had defective emergenca signal in their walkie talkies , so 300 died.
thanks Guiliani .
Thats cold- say that to their families then.
Their job? tsk tsk You should come up with a better answer then that. You think their expendable? The NYFD lost over 300+ firefighters that day. Do you think they would have risked the lives of over 300+ firefighters if they knew the towers were going to collapse?
Originally posted by admriker444
A lot of folks have this misconception which is why many dont question how those buildings could fall.
Airplanes are made of lightweight composite materials. The only part of a plane that usually survives a crash are the engines (theyre made of titanium).
A plane hitting those towers would be like an egg hitting a brick wall. Yes the plane penetrates inside the structure because of the glass but once inside it crumples into nothing.
The jet fuel would burn hot but no more than 5-10 minutes before the fire would cool down to a standard paper/wood fire. And of course jet fuel burns about 800' lower than needed to weaken steel and 1,000' before it starts to melt.
The stories we are told was the fire weakened the steel. Physics says thats impossible.
Then they say well maybe the plane hurt the structure of the building...impossible. Heck, the designers of the building even admit the World Trade towers were built to withstand a plane strike. Lightweight composite metal is never going to severely damage hardened structural steel.
I think these folks are decent people who are looking for any possible reason to avoid the possiblity that something other than a plane brought those towers down. Its too difficult to face.
Those firefighters had every reason to think the buildings would stand. History proves this. The explosions they heard AFTER the plane had long struck the buildings say something else happened
Originally posted by snoopy
While you mention the weight of the plane, you forget about the speed of the plane.
But there is no sudden point of weakening, and it is a linear scale. About 100 degrees will cause steel to lose half it's strength.
Not only does physics say it is possible, but the engineers have proven it so and provided all the calculations to show that it is possible.
If you find some fault in the calculations, perhaps you can point them out to us.
Impossible for a plain to damage a structure at that speed?
Why is it that whenever someone claims something is against the laws of physics, it's usually by someone with no background in physics?
And they always seem to think that these people who do this for a living and are professionals in engineering don't know what they are talking about. I never understood that.
Originally posted by bsbray11
(not that statics have much of ANYTHING to do with the collapses, same with most all of civil/structural engineering topics -- the idea that CEs or SEs are the relevant experts is flawed). The member Griff here is also a civil engineer and would probably tell you most of everything I've just said in different words.
The firefighters went into the buildings precisely because they knew there was no danger. As seasoned professionals they knew full and well there were no blazing fires. They have eyes and know what to look for.
None of the chiefs present believed a total collapse of either tower was possible. Later, after the Mayor had left, one senior chief present did articulate his concern that upper floors could begin to collapse in a few hours, and so he said that firefighters thus should not ascend above floors in the sixties.
Sure the artificial smoke has a distinct smell, it smells like kerosene if it’s petroleum based oil fog.
originally posted by admriker444
Speed has nothing really to do with whatever brought down the buildings.
You can toss an egg at 600 mph at a brick wall but it will still go splat.
Google Video Link
Originally posted by Wizard_In_The_Woods
You’ve brought up an excellent point. A monumental one actually. Probably without noticing that you did.
The firefighters went into the buildings precisely because they knew there was no danger. As seasoned professionals they knew full and well there were no blazing fires. They have eyes and know what to look for. Like all of us, they saw the smoke and wanted to rescue people from suffocation. They would have taken the elevators — yes firefighters do that, only civilians are supposed to use the stairs — but, surprise, surprise, they weren’t working. 9-11 planners did everything they could to prevent anyone from discovering the source of the soot clouds. Which I suggest were commercial smoke generating machines as routinely used in military and firefighting training exercises.
Naturally, not being a member of the 9-11 cabal, I have no sources for these thoughts other than flow-chart logical reasoning.
The Wizard In The Woods