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Ignorance and God

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posted on Sep, 15 2007 @ 03:25 AM
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Originally posted by WraothAscendant
Read above again. And like I said the crusades not religious sorry. The others I will do research and get back to you.



A religious war is a war justified by religious differences. It can be the legitimate forces of one state that has an established religion against those of another state with either a quite different religion or a different sect within the same religion, or, at the level below a state, it can be a faction motivated by religion attempting to spread its faith by violence either within the state or elsewhere. The French Wars of Religion, the Crusades, and the Reconquista are frequently cited historical examples.


Many say differently...




posted on Sep, 15 2007 @ 03:28 AM
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Originally posted by WraothAscendant

P.s. Persecution is not war.


the persecution of the Hugenots,



It was a civil war that led to their persectuion, forgot that name, try google..



posted on Sep, 15 2007 @ 03:47 AM
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reply to post by AncientVoid
 

Thirty Years War: Nope. More religion as a excuse for greedy purposes. Here allow me to show you. Here read the article and look beyond what you want it to say.Thirty Years War -Wikipedia

English Civil War: Once again WAY wrong there chuck. Here allow me to show you its in the first line.

The English Civil War consisted of a series of armed conflicts and political machinations that took place between Parliamentarians (known as Roundheads) and Royalists (known as Cavaliers) between 1642 and 1651.
Here's the link English Civil War -Wikipedia


And the others I will check out and edit this post in a bit.



posted on Sep, 15 2007 @ 03:57 AM
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Originally posted by AncientVoid

Originally posted by WraothAscendant
Read above again. And like I said the crusades not religious sorry. The others I will do research and get back to you.



A religious war is a war justified by religious differences. It can be the legitimate forces of one state that has an established religion against those of another state with either a quite different religion or a different sect within the same religion, or, at the level below a state, it can be a faction motivated by religion attempting to spread its faith by violence either within the state or elsewhere. The French Wars of Religion, the Crusades, and the Reconquista are frequently cited historical examples.


Many say differently...


Ah. So your saying that an excuse and the true reason someone does something is completely the same thing huh? Yes or no please.

And I would like to add a religion that PRETENDS to reject greed would surely admit that is why they are doing something based on your line of thought. Of course your whole argument defies logic as I understand it. Yea. The rich trade routes through the middle east that came from the orient meant NOTHING. ***rolls his eyes***

Cause people must NEVER lie right?



posted on Sep, 15 2007 @ 04:02 AM
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reply to post by WraothAscendant
 


Thirty Year's War is a religious conflict . Religion is religion... I could jsut as easily say greed is an excus for religion...

edit: Don't know what your taking about in the previous post cause i never said anything about how people always tell the truth...
[edit on 15-9-2007 by AncientVoid]

[edit on 15-9-2007 by AncientVoid]



posted on Sep, 15 2007 @ 04:06 AM
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Originally posted by AncientVoid
reply to post by WraothAscendant
 


Thirty Year's War is a religious conflict . Religion is religion... I could jsut as easily say greed is an excus for religion...

[edit on 15-9-2007 by AncientVoid]



How praytell? And much less make it stick? Without sounding like just more propaganda?

[edit on 15-9-2007 by WraothAscendant]



posted on Sep, 15 2007 @ 04:07 AM
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reply to post by WraothAscendant
 


When people want to fight for land, they are actually fighting for god. See easy...


[edit on 15-9-2007 by AncientVoid]



posted on Sep, 15 2007 @ 04:10 AM
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Originally posted by AncientVoid
reply to post by WraothAscendant
 


When people want to fight for land, they are actually fighting for god. See easy...


[edit on 15-9-2007 by AncientVoid]


Do you realise how stupid that sounds?



posted on Sep, 15 2007 @ 04:12 AM
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reply to post by WraothAscendant
 


lol yes.. that was my point. So does saying religion is an excus for greed every time.



posted on Sep, 15 2007 @ 04:15 AM
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Originally posted by AncientVoid
reply to post by WraothAscendant
 


lol yes.. that was my point. So does saying religion is an excus for greed every time.



Look at WHY I am saying it. I am very tempted to insult you here but I will avoid that.
Your saying that silly line to somehow halfarsed defend your statements.



posted on Sep, 15 2007 @ 04:18 AM
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Each and EVERY SINGLE one of your examples had a very large physical gain to be had. I, knowing human nature, attribute it to being more likely that was what they were fighting for. The wealth, more lands or control that it gave them.

And your arguments COMPLETELY ignore human nature or say that human nature ONLY applies in religion.

[edit on 15-9-2007 by WraothAscendant]



posted on Sep, 15 2007 @ 04:23 AM
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reply to post by WraothAscendant
 


no, your saying that religious wars aren't religious and all about greed. Few minutes of research doesn't make up for a lifetime of study by those who know their history...

Edit: Think we should get back on topic or off this topic, no point of wasting both our time, we both have our views


[edit on 15-9-2007 by AncientVoid]



posted on Sep, 15 2007 @ 04:28 AM
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Originally posted by AncientVoid
reply to post by WraothAscendant
 


no, your saying that religious wars aren't religious and all about greed. Few minutes of research doesn't make up for a lifetime of study by those who know their history...


Dude. I said that it was religion under the CLOAK of greed. And yet you ignore the information that is right there under your nose. You want the information to say that so that is ALL you see. I see something very different. And how in the HELL can that first line I cut and pasted for you about the English Civil war mean religion?

Lets break it down. In each of those conflicts was there gain to be had in the PURELY material? Be it money, land, control etc etc?


And no your not getting away that easily you can run away if you like but I will not let you run away. You want to bend facts like ignoring human nature all you want but I am not going to just back down. After all you have been the attacker.

So by all means. Start a fight and run away when you realise you can't win.

[edit on 15-9-2007 by WraothAscendant]



posted on Sep, 15 2007 @ 04:31 AM
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reply to post by WraothAscendant
 


that's why it's called a war, to destory the other side or hurt them. And guess how we do it in this world? Religious wars aren't ones where you sit down and dam the other side to hell...

edit: lol w/e...

[edit on 15-9-2007 by AncientVoid]



posted on Sep, 15 2007 @ 04:33 AM
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Originally posted by AncientVoid
reply to post by WraothAscendant
 


that's why it's called a war, to destory the other side or hurt them. And guess how we do it in this world? Religious wars aren't ones where you sit down and dam the other side to hell...




You just don't get it. WAS THERE ANY MATERIAL GAIN TO BE HAD!??!??!?

Argh why do I even bother? You repeatedly dodge counterpoints and spin nonesense in a purely WIERD attempt to win an argument you couldn't possibly win.


Unless I am delusional in the fact that humanity is very nasty in nature but to do that I would have to pretend war didn't exist, that we can't lie, and etc. Your as bad as the friggin christians.

[edit on 15-9-2007 by WraothAscendant]



posted on Sep, 15 2007 @ 04:37 AM
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yes, it's the by product of war. When fighting with your enemy, you take what ever you can.

Back to what you said before, still think there's no religious wars in the past 1000 years...?

[edit on 15-9-2007 by AncientVoid]

[edit on 15-9-2007 by AncientVoid]

[edit on 15-9-2007 by AncientVoid]



posted on Sep, 15 2007 @ 04:40 AM
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And I have to run on some errands but if you want to continue this I shall be back.



posted on Sep, 15 2007 @ 05:52 AM
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Originally posted by AncientVoid
yes, it's the by product of war. When fighting with your enemy, you take what ever you can.

Back to what you said before, still think there's no religious wars in the past 1000 years...?


Yep. Simply because I contend that is what war is about, TO TAKE SOMETHING BY FORCE, because war is the easiest way to take something, that is by force. If there is no physical gains to be had a human does not go to war and in each case you have mentioned there are physical gains to be had. GREAT physical gains.
They were in the process of taking the proverbial cookie jar and justified it with "It's ok to kill them and steal their land they're infidels and evil." Which is of course vastly delusional on their part but they didn't do it because the people holding the lands were infidels, they did it because they wanted the cookie jar, in otherwords the rich trade routes to the orient and India.

If I said I carjacked and killed someone because they are christian. Would it be true? Hell no. It would be because I wanted the car. Sort of like during the race riots in California after the Whitney King beating trial, and people looted even from other black people, the object is what they wanted, and they had an excuse to take it. So they did and said it was because of those cops getting off.

Your calling it a by product is silly at best foolish at worst. You have a slant you so love and refuse to see beyond it. Your accepting the claims of those people at face value, yet you take only the claims they make that fit YOUR angle. Might wanna to think about that last sentence.

The simple fact is I don't follow your the thoughts you are a slave to. Religion in and of its self is not bad, it has driven some to help others, Mother Teresa comes to mind. Alot of people are,or can be tricked into being bad, doing negative nasty things to his fellow man. And science isn't some magical balm that gets rid of that fact

And science is NOT the natural world. It is the human attempt and a process there in, to understand the natural world, contrary to what you have alluded to believing before.

[edit on 15-9-2007 by WraothAscendant]

[edit on 15-9-2007 by WraothAscendant]



posted on Sep, 15 2007 @ 08:23 PM
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Originally posted by WraothAscendant
If I said I carjacked and killed someone because they are christian. Would it be true? Hell no. It would be because I wanted the car. Sort of like during the race riots in California after the Whitney King beating trial, and people looted even from other black people, the object is what they wanted, and they had an excuse to take it. So they did and said it was because of those cops getting off.


lol? Those wars were started because of long feuds and difference in belief... Wars aren't all about taking tangable items, it also invovles killing if you didn't know...


Originally posted by WraothAscendant
Your calling it a by product is silly at best foolish at worst. You have a slant you so love and refuse to see beyond it. Your accepting the claims of those people at face value, yet you take only the claims they make that fit YOUR angle. Might wanna to think about that last sentence.


Funny you should say that. You present quotes from wikipedia and yet you don't believe this quote from it.


A religious war is a war justified by religious differences. It can be the legitimate forces of one state that has an established religion against those of another state with either a quite different religion or a different sect within the same religion, or, at the level below a state, it can be a faction motivated by religion attempting to spread its faith by violence either within the state or elsewhere. The French Wars of Religion, the Crusades, and the Reconquista are frequently cited historical examples.


huh? what's the matter? Your right and the historians are wrong?


Originally posted by WraothAscendant
The simple fact is I don't follow your the thoughts you are a slave to. Religion in and of its self is not bad, it has driven some to help others, Mother Teresa comes to mind. Alot of people are,or can be tricked into being bad, doing negative nasty things to his fellow man. And science isn't some magical balm that gets rid of that fact


Slaves???? HA. Sorry i don't worship something locked up in a building on my knees. Wow religion has driven people to help others? That's how sad it is, you need to be driven by religion to help others. They do it for their own benifit (going to heaven). Sorry i'm not that cold hearted and need to be religious to help others. No one said science get rid of nasty things or whatever, it just reveals the truth. And the truth isn't always pretty. Religion was used for power, control and killing...


Originally posted by WraothAscendant
And science is NOT the natural world. It is the human attempt and a process there in, to understand the natural world, contrary to what you have alluded to believing before.


It's the study of the natural world...


[edit on 15-9-2007 by WraothAscendant]



posted on Sep, 15 2007 @ 09:54 PM
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Originally posted by AncientVoid
It's the study of the natural world...



Using the senses, devices and logic of man. Our eyes cannot see everything, there is no instrument that can perceive everything. How do we know our logic, our "scientific" conclusions are infallible?



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