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Ignorance and God

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posted on Sep, 8 2007 @ 10:43 PM
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Originally posted by AncientVoid
Shouldn't religion always be correct? Since there's no way to prove god exists. If one part of it gets disproved, what are the chances the whole thing is wrong? I would say high. Especially when they go into loads of details.

At the heart of most wars, it comes down to religion...


No. Most wars if you dig deep enough are caused by greed cloaked as religion (the proverbial wolf in sheeps clothing).
Do you honestly think that the crusades for example was about Jerusalum as a holy city? Or the more logical reason of the rich trade routes going through the middle east region at that time? After all control the land the trade routes go through and you make alot of money (aka power).

Oh and you didn't bother touching what I said in all but the slightest way. Your personal war clouds your thoughts it seems.
As I have said MULTIPLE times you can dismiss alot if not a mostly all the claims organized religion makes. But you don't throw out the proverbial baby with the bath water because the water is dirty.
Certain parts or practically all of lets say a theory can be found to be wrong but that doesn't mean there are not kernals of truth to be found amongst the trash no matter how small those parts may be.

And we have not yet 100% proven or disproven. And I am of the opinion that in the end we cannot prove or disprove everything because we are limited by what our senses can take in, our mind can grasp, or what we will accept.


[edit on 8-9-2007 by WraothAscendant]




posted on Sep, 8 2007 @ 11:23 PM
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Oh and AncientVoid so your stance that at the heart of most wars is religion lets see.

Your telling us that at the heart of lets see the Hundred Years War, the War of 1812, the Civil War, Spanish-American War, the War with Mexico (that war just before the Civil War), the Indian Wars, World War One, World War Two, Vietnam and Korea were all basically about religion?
I would LOVE to see how you justify that based on fact rather than your own prejudices and a scientific equation that reads something simular to 1+2= fish.



posted on Sep, 9 2007 @ 12:20 PM
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In their post, Ancient Void says " most wars". The post doesnt state every war so obviously some aren't going to apply to that reason.



posted on Sep, 9 2007 @ 02:25 PM
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Originally posted by vckums
In their post, Ancient Void says " most wars". The post doesnt state every war so obviously some aren't going to apply to that reason.


I listed practically every major war in the last 1000 years and not a one has religion at their heart. The statement is false regardless of how you try to dodge it repackage or whatever. Back to the drawing board with your propaganda. And yes you can say you didn't say you agree with ancientvoid but the fact you are attempting to cover his or her butt (and have multiple times) implies otherwise.

Yet beyond the most recent wars (and even those reasons are debatable) I cant think of a war that does. Can you? If you can please tell me. I equate the War in Iraq as the same as the Crusades (IE Wars for Greed)



[edit on 9-9-2007 by WraothAscendant]

[edit on 9-9-2007 by WraothAscendant]



posted on Sep, 9 2007 @ 10:27 PM
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Did you see the new video?



posted on Sep, 9 2007 @ 11:43 PM
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reply to post by AncientVoid
 


Don't try to change the subject.



posted on Sep, 10 2007 @ 07:57 AM
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reply to post by WraothAscendant
 


if you say the crusades weren't about religion than you are deluding yourself...

religion has played a part in many... if not most... wars in history. it may not have been the singular cause, but it is one of many



posted on Sep, 10 2007 @ 07:26 PM
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reply to post by WraothAscendant
 


lol i wasn't... new video = Osama bin Laden video...



posted on Sep, 10 2007 @ 08:58 PM
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reply to post by madnessinmysoul[

This is what I said since you obviously aren't paying attention. I highlighted the key points so do try to pay attention and get past the "ohh my god he is disagreeing with me" mind lock. Name another that had religion at its heart? Seeing as to how you are so hardily wishing this to be true lets fight on the field of facts.



No. Most wars if you dig deep enough are caused by greed cloaked as religion (the proverbial wolf in sheeps clothing).
Do you honestly think that the crusades for example was about Jerusalum as a holy city? Or the more logical reason of the rich trade routes going through the middle east region at that time? After all control the land the trade routes go through and you make alot of money (aka power).



It must be a nice little reality you have built up in your head. All evil coming from religion and all that jazz, while science somehow washing away all the badness (ability to lie, greed, etc and so forth) mankind posesses. What color is the sun in your world?

Oh and I have a feeling I could add a nonsensical statement (such as I have a purple and pink cat that is pretty) amongst what I am saying and you wouldn't notice, it except to somehow prove your point in some wierd way. Just an observation.

[edit on 10-9-2007 by WraothAscendant]



posted on Sep, 10 2007 @ 09:07 PM
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Originally posted by AncientVoid
reply to post by WraothAscendant
 


lol i wasn't... new video = Osama bin Laden video...


Oh ok. Sorry about that but you are trying to subvert the conversation.
And you really might wanna read the transcript before accepting what the media is saying, which I imagine that your somehow implying that this proves your argument. And other than to argue my point with the crusades (weakly I might add), you got nothing. Other than a statement based on what you'd like to be true. Too bad the universe is not that cut and dry.



posted on Sep, 10 2007 @ 09:43 PM
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reply to post by WraothAscendant
 


You know what Osama said right?



posted on Sep, 11 2007 @ 02:48 AM
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reply to post by AncientVoid
 


Argh once again I have to spell it out for you. Hes a religious zealot and talks like such but he said NOTHING, NOTTA, ZILCH of convert to Islam or die. Just something along the lines of if god is with us who can be against us.
Regardless of what the media tells us. Read the transcript. But oh wait then you'd know the truth which doesn't fit your ignorant agenda at all.

Osama Transcript Al Jazera Website

P.s. You have to try a few times to get to it.
P.s. What I said in the other posts apply to you too Ancient. Whats wrong run outta propaganda?





[edit on 11-9-2007 by WraothAscendant]



posted on Sep, 11 2007 @ 11:22 PM
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Originally posted by WraothAscendant
Argh once again I have to spell it out for you. Hes a religious zealot and talks like such but he said NOTHING, NOTTA, ZILCH of convert to Islam or die. Just something along the lines of if god is with us who can be against us.
Regardless of what the media tells us. Read the transcript. But oh wait then you'd know the truth which doesn't fit your ignorant agenda at all.

Osama Transcript Al Jazera Website

P.s. You have to try a few times to get to it.
P.s. What I said in the other posts apply to you too Ancient. Whats wrong run outta propaganda?


You sure with that?
lol... you know that's the 2004 video right?
How sad, can't even get your facts right... and you go on talking like that.


"There is a message for you in the Mujahedeen: the entire world is in pursuit of them, yet their hearts, by the grace of Allah, are satisfied and tranquil. The true religion also puts peoples' lives in order with its laws; protects their needs and interests; refines their morals; protects them from evils; and guarantees for them entrance into Paradise in the hereafter through their obedience to Allah and sincere worship of Him Alone."

"And it will also achieve your desire to stop the war as a consequence, because as soon as the warmongering owners of the major corporations realise that you have lost confidence in your democratic system and begun to search for an alternative, and that this alternative is Islam, they will run after you to please you and achieve what you want to steer you away from Islam. So your true compliance with Islam will deprive them of the opportunity to defraud the peoples and take their money under numberous pretexts, like arms deals and so on."



posted on Sep, 14 2007 @ 11:38 AM
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reply to post by AncientVoid
 



Still most wars eh? Not been able to name any others and the reason for the current conflicts are . And would like to add that just because a religious zealot goes to war like Osama has done to the US doesn't mean hes doing it on religious grounds. He can say his god his on his side like they are more likely to do. Even say their god has blessed them.

You obviously know very little about the war in Iraq well the whole Middle East.



It must be a nice little reality you have built up in your head. All evil coming from religion and all that jazz, while science somehow washing away all the badness (ability to lie, greed, etc and so forth) mankind posesses. What color is the sun in your world?







[edit on 14-9-2007 by WraothAscendant]



posted on Sep, 14 2007 @ 12:46 PM
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reply to post by WraothAscendant
 


"god told me to invade iraq"

"jihad"

um... let's see, the israel/palestine conflict is one about religion on both sides...

afghanistan is a fight against religion by an army whose troops are trying to be converted by evangelicals (see the story about how the troops are being sent the left behind game)



posted on Sep, 15 2007 @ 01:50 AM
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Originally posted by WraothAscendant
I listed practically every major war in the last 1000 years and not a one has religion at their heart. The statement is false regardless of how you try to dodge it repackage or whatever. Back to the drawing board with your propaganda. And yes you can say you didn't say you agree with ancientvoid but the fact you are attempting to cover his or her butt (and have multiple times) implies otherwise.


I never said major, nor did i say last 1000 years, stop putting words in my mouth....



posted on Sep, 15 2007 @ 02:57 AM
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reply to post by AncientVoid
 


OMG LoL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
THIS is what you fall back on? How did I say you said anything about major or 1000 years?

Ok. Allow me to spell it out for you.
I (psst that means me not you) have named practically every major conflict in the last thousand years, and yet not a single one of the wars I listed had much to do with religion, except maybe as most religious idiots do and claim that "gawd is on our side" type BS propaganda. As opposed to religion being the HEART of MOST wars. Which is what you did say. And just in case I will make bold and underlined what you did say.
Sure you contend the crusades but also as I contend that was greed. After all what nation wouldn't want especially back then access to LOTS of wealth.

Your allowed to disbelieve that there is a higher power. I can respect that. Honestly. There is plenty of evidence that can be interepted to say that. But neither also has been anyone able to satisfactorily (don't think that is a real word but you know what I mean) disprove the possiblity of such a being. And no I am not talking about abrahamic personal gods (Christianity, Islam etc). Cause I don't believe in those either. But like that question I asked and your cronies tried to turn into a joke. It is possible and you can mince words and pretend we know more than we do and pretend we are capable of more than I think we really are.

But where I fault you and your cronies and cry foul is in the simple fact is you are attacking others based on their beliefs because you hold a different BELIEF. And yes science holds ALOT of truth but somethings are beyond our ability to understand I think.
You don't like it how the Christians attack you so why in the hell are you going to do it to others? Do you honestly think eye for an eye is a good policy?

And contrary to madness's little off the cuff and ultimately STUPID statement of my supposed ignorance I am not in fact ignorant. I know the arguments and but I also see the holes. And there is holes.

We are limited by three major things in our perceptions of reality and ALL of us are limited by them.
1) What our senses can sense.
2) What our minds can process.
3) What we will or will not accept for whatever reason.
And #3 trumps the top 2.
So to state somethings as fact at this juncture of human evolution is pure silliness.



[edit on 15-9-2007 by WraothAscendant]

[edit on 15-9-2007 by WraothAscendant]



posted on Sep, 15 2007 @ 03:01 AM
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reply to post by WraothAscendant
 


lol again, you said my statement is false, yet you only named major ones. War comes in many sizes


btw, religious wars include the Thirty Years War, the English Civil War, the persecution of the Hugenots, the Reconquista, the Crusades, the Yellow Turban Rebellion and many more...


[edit on 15-9-2007 by AncientVoid]



posted on Sep, 15 2007 @ 03:16 AM
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Read above again. And like I said the crusades not religious sorry. The others I will do research and get back to you.



posted on Sep, 15 2007 @ 03:22 AM
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reply to post by AncientVoid
 



P.s. Persecution is not war.


the persecution of the Hugenots,




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