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Ignorance and God

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posted on Aug, 26 2007 @ 07:27 PM
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A community of people who share the motto "deny Ignorance", yet when it comes to religion I swear a majority of users on this site really need to try harder. Before you start your next thread about God and begin attacking religious text, read the text as Im convinced a majority of you havent, and then seriously consider what it says. I dont have a number, but many times I see someone using something that they think the Bible says, and its not what the actual text read as.
Sure, religious beliefs are open to interpretation, but it is just frustrating to see so many people starting threads trying to debunk god, when they lack such a general understanding of what they are trying to argue against.

One more thing, and its about proving God exists. If it were possible to prove to everyone without a doubt that there is a god, it would have been done by now. Instead, try finding God for yourself instead of asking people to do it for you.

Im a practicing Christian, I dont go to church, I sometimes participate in Bible study, and I am certain without any doubt that God exists not from faith alone but also through experience.

[edit on 26-8-2007 by JohnDoe43]

[edit on 26-8-2007 by JohnDoe43]




posted on Aug, 26 2007 @ 07:33 PM
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Yet again i am not thinking.

But I am thinking at the same time ?

I am not talking rubbish i am confused please help.

I AM AN ATHEIST YET I BELEIVE IN GOD WHAT DOES THAT MEAN ?

Is there an answer ?

Please tell me the answer.

Regard's
Lee



[edit on 26-8-2007 by h3akalee]



posted on Aug, 26 2007 @ 07:42 PM
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Well I believe what you mean is that although you believe in God, you dont follow any particular religious beliefs other then your own personal ones that have come through experience.



posted on Aug, 26 2007 @ 07:49 PM
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reply to post by JohnDoe43
 


i'd just like to say that most people that cite the bible to disprove it have done so with pinpoint accuracy to the text, i'd like to see where we haven't been true to the text, because i think tbis claim may be more than a bit biased and frankly a bit absurd.


Originally posted by JohnDoe43
One more thing, and its about proving God exists. If it were possible to prove to everyone without a doubt that there is a god, it would have been done by now. Instead, try finding God for yourself instead of asking people to do it for you.


um...
there is no knowledge in this universe that one can find for one's self that cannot be found for you by others. if something exists, then you would be able to find the proof on your own and others could point it out for you.

i'm one that did try finding the being, i came up with nothing.



posted on Aug, 26 2007 @ 07:50 PM
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reply to post by JohnDoe43
 


You are making assumptions that are incorrect. Many atheists, myself and MIMS particularly HAVE read the Bible and we reject it. It is full of evil things, misogyny, genocide, rape, slavery, racism, exclusionism and hatred.

We HAVE tried to find god and have not done so. People who claim there is a god have the burden of proving there is one. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. There is not one scrap of scientifically verifiable evidence of god's existence, just the faithful's wishful thinking and dogged insistence.

Children believe there is a Santa Claus, and they actually have more "evidence" of that particular fictional character's existence than people have for god. But that doesn't mean there is a Santa Claus, and that doesn't mean there is a god either.

It is dangerous to make assumptions about people and then make accusations you have no knowledge to back up. I've sought "god" all my life in many different ways, including going to Christian church and reading the bible. And I find no god there, just delusion and superstition.

Telling people to go and find it for themselves isn't going to prove anything. We haven't found it. If you want us to, I'd be happy to review any actual verifiable empiric evidence you may have, but telling me god exists without concrete evidence isn't going to fly.



posted on Aug, 26 2007 @ 07:56 PM
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When you stand in a trench in a thunder storm for 2 hour's almost being hit by lightning what do you realise in a lightning fast manner ?

THERE ARE NO ATHEIST'S IN THE TRENCH.

Have i found my personal answer ?

Regard's
Lee




posted on Aug, 26 2007 @ 07:59 PM
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Originally posted by h3akalee
When you stand in a trench in a thunder storm for 2 hour's almost being hit by lightning what do you realise in a lightning fast manner ?

THERE ARE NO ATHEIST'S IN THE TRENCH.

Have i found my personal answer ?

Regard's
Lee


that's a modified version of "there are no atheists in foxholes"
which is a terribly bigoted assumption. atheists don't relapse into theism when they're afraid

the statement "there are no atheists in foxholes" is an arguement against foxholes, no atheists
(no clue who said it, but these aren't my original words)



posted on Aug, 26 2007 @ 08:00 PM
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reply to post by JohnDoe43
 


How right you are
It would seem as if everyday there is a thread or two started about how God doesn't exist, or religion is foolish.




A community of people who share the motto "deny Ignorance", yet when it comes to religion I swear a majority of users on this site really need to try harder

For a conspiracy site/forum that discusses alternative topics, it would seem as if everyone already has there mind made up.



it is just frustrating to see so many people starting threads trying to debunk god, when they lack such a general understanding of what they are trying to argue against.


I know what you mean. Because the Bible is such a common text amongst our culture , IMO many people hear a couple storys or read a few passages and for some reason they feel like they have an absolute grasp of what is really being said. I'd like to know how many people actually have read the Bible from cover to cover. Let alone actually go into an in-depth study of word orgin , and a study of the time period. The Bible is like any ancient text or manuscript, a thorough study and analyzation of the context must be done before one can base an opinion.




One more thing, and its about proving God exists. If it were possible to prove to everyone without a doubt that there is a god, it would have been done by now. Instead, try finding God for yourself instead of asking people to do it for you.


I couldn't agree more. I still don't get it. It's almost as if everyone wants another to the work for them instead of taking the time to do there own research, and study. Why is this the case all to many times?


Have you noticed that most of the threads that deal with the subject of God and religion are some of the most popular threads , that get like a million replies. I am personally starting to think this topic is becoming a fad, or the intention is just to build up those ATS points. Just my two cents though, for whatever their worth. Good post

It's about time someone started a thread like this. Although if this takes off I bet there will be some heated discussion going on


Flagged



posted on Aug, 26 2007 @ 08:01 PM
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reply to post by h3akalee
 


I'm sorry to point out to you, but you are wrong about this, it's a common misperception and fallacy.

This site is a military atheist site, which is dedicated to showing people who make this accusation that it just isn't true.



posted on Aug, 26 2007 @ 08:04 PM
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Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
i'd just like to say that most people that cite the bible to disprove it have done so with pinpoint accuracy to the text, i'd like to see where we haven't been true to the text, because i think tbis claim may be more than a bit biased and frankly a bit absurd.
No, you are wrong, people do take the text in the bible out of context all the time. No, Im not going to go find examples for you, just pay attention from now on (assuming you can tell when it is being taken out of context). This mindset you have of us versus them, as indicated by your use of the word we, is ridiculous in my opinon.



Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
um...
there is no knowledge in this universe that one can find for one's self that cannot be found for you by others. if something exists, then you would be able to find the proof on your own and others could point it out for you.

i'm one that did try finding the being, i came up with nothing.
You are wrong in thinking that others can find god for you. You are right that you can find proof for yourself, and your right others should be able to point it out in the sense they can show you how to find it for yourself.



posted on Aug, 26 2007 @ 08:07 PM
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reply to post by MajorMalfunction
 


I would just like to note that there is no need to prove the existance of a god or gods or what have you. At least, not until you start trying to get people to believe as you do.

I have to tell you, it's quite nice to belong to a religion that doesn't expect you to go out and impose your beliefs on others, either through preaching or "moral legislation"



posted on Aug, 26 2007 @ 08:17 PM
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Originally posted by MajorMalfunction

You are making assumptions that are incorrect. Many atheists, myself and MIMS particularly HAVE read the Bible and we reject it. It is full of evil things, misogyny, genocide, rape, slavery, racism, exclusionism and hatred.

We HAVE tried to find god and have not done so. People who claim there is a god have the burden of proving there is one. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. There is not one scrap of scientifically verifiable evidence of god's existence, just the faithful's wishful thinking and dogged insistence.

Children believe there is a Santa Claus, and they actually have more "evidence" of that particular fictional character's existence than people have for god. But that doesn't mean there is a Santa Claus, and that doesn't mean there is a god either.

It is dangerous to make assumptions about people and then make accusations you have no knowledge to back up. I've sought "god" all my life in many different ways, including going to Christian church and reading the bible. And I find no god there, just delusion and superstition.

Telling people to go and find it for themselves isn't going to prove anything. We haven't found it. If you want us to, I'd be happy to review any actual verifiable empiric evidence you may have, but telling me god exists without concrete evidence isn't going to fly.
Im gonna make this short as its obvious to me how unreasonable you are going to get if I draw this out so Ill make one point. Just because I believe in God does not mean I have the burden to prove anything to you. I am not trying to convince you or anyone of what I believe, but am only giving advice. Take it or leave it.



posted on Aug, 26 2007 @ 08:18 PM
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reply to post by MajorMalfunction
 


Greetings MajorMalfunction. I understand where you are coming from and I give all the respect that is due your way. I don't think this thread was inteded to be another Does or doesn't God exist thread. I think what the OP is trying to state is that many, not all, usually babble some mis quoted
text from scripture or get down right nasty about this subject. I have noticed you as well as others on this site that hold to there beliefe of atheism. That's great. At least you have some sort of conviction and hold to your guns. But I personally don't think any one is going to persuade the other. If you are a true atheist then why does it matter to you if someone comes on here and screams Jesus is Lord? In reality if you trully believe what you say you do, how come I see you around these religion threads? Just curious.



posted on Aug, 26 2007 @ 08:22 PM
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Sorry wrong section. Please delete

Regard's
Lee

[edit on 26-8-2007 by h3akalee]



posted on Aug, 26 2007 @ 08:24 PM
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Originally posted by highfreq


I know what you mean. Because the Bible is such a common text amongst our culture , IMO many people hear a couple storys or read a few passages and for some reason they feel like they have an absolute grasp of what is really being said. I'd like to know how many people actually have read the Bible from cover to cover. Let alone actually go into an in-depth study of word orgin , and a study of the time period. The Bible is like any ancient text or manuscript, a thorough study and analyzation of the context must be done before one can base an opinion.
You said it better then I could have. Exactly my point.



posted on Aug, 26 2007 @ 08:30 PM
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reply to post by JohnDoe43
 

Well isnt that nice of you to sink into the level of people who does not share your knowledge of the truth. It is so amazing to have someone with the faith of god to share with us how we are ignorant and you are just trying to guide us towards this amazing reality of _the_god_.

Thanks for standing on your high pedistal and taking the time to share your wisdom with us lower lifeforms.




posted on Aug, 26 2007 @ 08:43 PM
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Originally posted by Gonjo
Well isnt that nice of you to sink into the level of people who does not share your knowledge of the truth. It is so amazing to have someone with the faith of god to share with us how we are ignorant and you are just trying to guide us towards this amazing reality of _the_god_.

Thanks for standing on your high pedistal and taking the time to share your wisdom with us lower lifeforms.

Your maturity is amazing.



posted on Aug, 26 2007 @ 09:01 PM
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All I can say about "Ignorance and God" is the Word is truly sealed to unbelievers. It wasn't until after my salvation experience that I was able to understand the Bible. Draw closer to God and He will draw closer to you. I'm not trying to sound lofty and superior, that's just the way it worked for me.

God will use you whether you believe in Him or not.

The important thing about putting your faith in Jesus Christ is what happens to your eternal soul after your temporal body expires. When you appear in judgment before the throne of God, do you want to stand on your own works, or be claimed by Christ and have your sins erased by His sacrifice?



posted on Aug, 26 2007 @ 10:06 PM
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I Never quote the Christian bible, nor do I quote science fiction books when trying to make adult arguments, because no matter what I would quote it could be refuted by another quote from the same book, I also make every effort Not to quote wikkipedia either..
I spent a few years with Baptists, Good southern Baptists, and one of the Women asked me a question "what is truth?" she asked me, I replied a mutual consensus of reality, and she said no that is not truth, so I asked her what it was, she said it was the Christian Bible, I asked her how she came to that conclusion, she said and I quote. "it is the word of God and has been unchanged for 2000 years" I found that fascinating so I read it, and read it and read it and studied it with others for 3 years twice a week, then I went to look for the Source of the Bible, the new testament, it was the Congress of Nicea, so I went and researched the Congress of Nicea, and found it was not formed 2000 years ago, but the Christian Bible is truth how can this be?

So I did More research, another year went by, started looking at the origins of Christianity.. Who was Jesus, where did he come from, wait thats Odd, he is the Nazarene, an Man from Nazareth....... More research, what there was No Nazareth.. this cannot be, The Christian Bible is Truth, But Nazareth didn't exist 2000 years ago.......

you can look to the left under my name and look up what those words mean
I never quoted the Christian Bible, nor will I, I also will not denigrate anyone their beliefs nor say I am Better or know something you do not, Does this mean God doesn't exist? I do not know.

I also do not think fiction is worth worship, on ATS, you make a claim you back it up, you make your OPINION, and it needs no proof, it also doesn't mean it's right............................



posted on Aug, 26 2007 @ 10:10 PM
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Originally posted by Icarus Rising
All I can say about "Ignorance and God" is the Word is truly sealed to unbelievers. It wasn't until after my salvation experience that I was able to understand the Bible.


I understood the bible, was baptized, read the bible several more times, and after a few experiences stopped believing. So I'd say that it's not sealed to unbelievers since it was what caused me to believe and be saved prior to my re-reading, having better comprehension, becoming appalled, and ultimately rejecting it. Jesus said some smart things (according to the Bible of course), but they were mostly common sense things that you learn without reading the Bible as long as your parents teach you some morality.


Originally posted by JohnDoe43
I dont have a number, but many times I see someone using something the they think the Bible says, and its not what the actual text read as.
Sure, religious beliefs are open to interpretation, but it is just frustrating to see so many people starting threads trying to debunk god, when they lack such a general understanding of what they are trying to argue against.


I wouldn't say that it's done many times, but occasionally it happens. If you watch though, nonbelievers are just as likely to call someone on it as believers are. Here on ATS anyway. It's that whole "deny ignorance" thing. It's been my experience that nonbelievers are more likely to have read the bible cover to cover repeatedly, either trying to find something that would help them believe or trying to regain the belief they lost. It's also been my experience that a lot of nonbelievers are more than willing to change their views and start to believe if given any proof whatsoever that there is even a shred of truth to any of it.

By the same token, it's been my experience that believers are more likely to refuse to listen to any arguments that might shake their faith even a little bit, and refuse to accept that it's possible that they don't understand as much as they think they do and that it's possible that they are wrong. Most of the believers I've talked to about the bible and religion in general are so wrapped up in their beliefs that to say anything that contradicts those beliefs means that you are in league with the devil and are trying to lure them away from their faith. When I explain to them that I don't believe in the devil, they are shocked and typically try to pray over me or give me a list of passages to read so that I will see the error of my ways.

So who's more close-minded and prone to error? The nonbeliever who likes to discuss it, or the believer who won't believe anything about religion that doesn't come from their bible and their church?

[edit on 26-8-2007 by Jenna]



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