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Heaven/Hell or Reincarnation? Which makes more sense to YOU? (Or, Being an Atheist Doesn't Mean I'

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posted on Aug, 26 2007 @ 04:44 AM
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First I will pose a question to you. Heaven and Hell or Reincarnation; Which makes more sense to you?

Of these two possibilities ONLY, which do you think is most viable?




For the most part, my family is very "religious" and spiritual. Being so, they have a hard time understanding the concept that I do not believe in God, yet I'm a huge proponent of reincarnation and the soul/spirit. Since they relate their spiritualism and soul with god, they can't seem to figure out where I am coming from. I have tried explaining it, but it seems to be a lost cause since they can't differentiate between god and the soul.

I have ALWAYS been an atheist, since I remember church at the age of 4, I have NEVER believed in god. The whole concept never sat right with me, perhaps because I never understood how a god that loved us so much let such bad things happen in my life. Now, don't get me wrong, my life has not been "bad". I have, however, had my fair share of bad events in my life which include, but are not limited to, losing every close family member I had (aside from my mother) by the time I was 20 years old. (though I lost most before I was 10)

For many years, I never took the time to look farther than being an atheist. I didn't believe in god and that was that. I never feared death or really much thought about my own.

However, at around age 21, I suddenly became a deeply spiritual person and began to wonder what exactly did happen when we die. As much as I tried to imagine it, I just could not (and still can't) get my mind around the thought that we just "blink out" when we die. Maybe it's the selfish nature of myself and all humans to think that the world revolves around my existence, but I simply cannot except the thought of the essence that is Jasn just CEASING. So, I started thinking about possibilities and, long story short, I landed on the doorstep of the belief in reincarnation. This concept and ideology make, hands down, the most sense to me.

I fully believe all creatures on this planet have a soul and an essence about them. However, I feel this soul/essence of ours is more energy based than divine.

However, at the same time, I began to wonder why we don't ALL remember our past lives and THIS is the most logical explanation I have been able to come up with for myself.

Our memories are a physical characteristic of this body. Those thoughts, loves, memories, hopes, dreams and everything else we experience are stored in our personal super computer (brain) and when this body dies, the data that we have stored there dies with it. However, we have all heard of people that recall their past lives. I have an explanation for that too! (for myself anyway.) I believe that some experiences are simply SO IMPORTANT to us that they manage to imprint themselves onto our spiritual essence. This could possibly explain why so many people that recall past lives seem to recall events that are very close and personal. (IE: A loved one from a past life, parents from a past life, battles fought in a past life etc.) Perhaps some events in our lives have such a HUGE impact on us in that life that they, in essence, magnetically stamp themselves on our soul.

While I do believe in Karma in each life, I'm not so sure that it has a bearing on our future/past lives. It is a possibility (and a very legitimate one), however, the jury is still out on that one for me. Then again, perhaps Karma is just us punishing ourselves subconciously for our self envisioned "sins".

Well, there you go; An atheist's perspective on spirituality. Perhaps some of you can take a bit away from my beliefs that benefits you in some way.

I may be very wrong about my beliefs, we may simply blink out when our time is up. There may have never been a past life and there may never be a future one for me, but I certainly hope that's not the case.


I would appreciate any feedback (good or bad) to what I have written here. Perhaps you could tell us your own beliefs. Whatever the case, thank you for reading and thank you in advance for any contribution you make.


True love is the best and worst of all human emotions.
Jasn


EDIT: Mods, I'm not sure if this is the correct forum for this thread. However, since I respect and appreciate the opinions of most that frequent this particular forum, I request that it remain here.

Thanks,
Jasn

[edit on 26-8-2007 by SimiusDei]




posted on Aug, 26 2007 @ 05:14 AM
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NOTE 2: Those of you who do grace me with a reply to this thread, all I ask is that you don't let this topic degenerate into another religion bashing topic. There are plenty of the "my beliefs are better/more accurate than yours!!" threads here.


Thanks again,
Jasn



posted on Aug, 26 2007 @ 05:47 AM
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Reincarnation always made far more sense to me; however, for most of my life I didn't decide to believe in any of it at all. Not that I didn't believe in God - I always have. What I mean is that I didn't worry about to the point I felt I needed to attach myself to a certain belief regarding such. Left it open, IOW.

Now I totally think that reincarnation is fact. For at least 3 reasons:

#1 the accounts I have read of people who have died but not stayed dead (supposedly 'near death' experiences which is a name that doesn't make sense to me)....there is a website where they collect such accounts. nderf

#2 the readings of Edgar Cayce which I have found to be consistent and logical and never contradictory of later discovered facts.

#3 my own recent life experiences - since I didn't attach myself to the idea of reincarnation, naturally I never thought or tried to somehow remember any past lives. But lately they have been coming back to me and not through any activity such as hypnosis or meditation, either. It's hard to describe; I just REMEMBER. And many odd points that have come up as memories have, oddly enough or maybe not odd at all, soon after turned up, somehow, in my various reading and research. (I'm an information junkie as many ATSers are) I won't go into detail; I don't think I could explain with enough finesse to prove my point - something I don't like to do as far as personal issues are concerned, anyway (prove my point, that is).

Also, I have read and studied the bible very extensively over a long period of time; in depth even concerning the original languages and the cultures of the times in which the books were written. I definitely see references to reincarnation in there, too; especially in the words of Jesus. Things like 'new wine and old wineskins.' In the OT, too, there is a lot of reference to this but unless a person reads with an open mind and pays attention the actual meanings of the words, instead of relying on modern day translations, they are misunderstood, misinterpreted, and/or ignored.



posted on Aug, 26 2007 @ 06:41 AM
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I would have to say Reincarnation.
I will give you a brief overview of what I think of the afterlife.
You die, go to the spirit world and kinda take a break I guess, you review past mistakes, meet with old friends, etc.
After your time in the spirit world you and your loved ones set off in the order you all died and re-live life again without ever knowing you knew eachother before, but their are exceptions, I can remember very little from my past lives. I know i've had somewhere around 20 I believe may be alot more than that.

I swear to everyone in my family that I remember being in the womb, i remember just being in almost complete darkness with this pinkish glow in front of me (like when you put your hand over a light and the light kinda shines through your skin and it has a pinkish color) it was amazing, the next memory after that was when I was the day I turned 3.

[edit on 06/21/2007 by Uniceft17]



posted on Aug, 26 2007 @ 07:17 AM
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Reincarnation - 3
Heaven/Hell - 0

Where are my "true believers" at? C'mon guys, I want your feedback too.



Jasn



posted on Aug, 26 2007 @ 08:11 AM
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Here is my belief.Reincarnation.
I had a rough childhood.Despite being sent to church every Sunday with a neighbour while my mom stayed at home.I never found any answers to my questions from the bible.
I had reoccuring dreams till I was 5, about being someone else.Very vivid.And in such great detail,including things a young child without cable TV should not have known.
That info has definitely affected my life.I dreamed of dying in a car accident in the early 50's as best I can determine from the style of the car, and the way I was dressed.I can clearly see it all now,just as I did when I was 4.I drove off a bridge, into a river below, and died in the car.
To this day I have a fear of bridges, heights, falling, and large bodies of water,and most of all driving.Iam 36 and just got my learners permit to drive.Iam terrified.But I want to overcome it, in this life.Many people scoff at those who believe in past lives.Not me.I don't claim to be anyone famous in history, just a normal everyday person,who died Tragically and too young.

Excellent thread idea,OP.I needed to get that off my chest.



posted on Aug, 26 2007 @ 08:15 AM
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Originally posted by AccessDenied


Excellent thread idea,OP.I needed to get that off my chest.



Thank you very much. Excellent contribution.


The Jasn



posted on Aug, 26 2007 @ 08:30 AM
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reply to post by SimiusDei
 


No problem.Would offer more if I could, but I have ignored most religion for a long time.It has no place in my world.



posted on Aug, 26 2007 @ 08:51 AM
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Originally posted by AccessDenied
reply to post by SimiusDei
 


No problem.Would offer more if I could, but I have ignored most religion for a long time.It has no place in my world.


Ahh but spirtuality y religion = 2 different things.



Now get off my damn thread!!!!!!!!!!! LOSER!!! (sorry, still trying to show you some evidence as to why you should vote me resident a**hole)





Jasn



posted on Aug, 26 2007 @ 09:33 AM
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Well i have to say i believe n reincarnation.

You see i remember being little i wasn't really into god and organized religion, i thought that if you were just good to yourself and the people that were around you, then you would go to heaven. Laster on i started thinking, this cant be it, it cant be just heaven and hell...I mean i looked at it this way, if a person was born into a evil family were they were told to kill and steal and stuff, then that person would most likely go to hell, but then if they were in a good family and stuff they would go to heaven. I was like man this is stupid heaven and hell its crazy, i would watch the priest on tv saying GOD oh GOD he is the one that will s might u. I thought to myself how do you know that, have yo ever met him.

lol sry to go on the religious tantrum, but it does go back to that, i mean even Jesus said that god is in all of us. Therefore i just came to the conclusion that there isnt some guy watching you, that your soul is eternal, and that you have had many lives in order to gain experience to be one with the creator source...the universe itself.


reincarnation rocks



posted on Aug, 26 2007 @ 09:50 AM
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For my money it would be reincarnation. Having said that there are a lot of differing opinions as to the mechanics and reasons for how it works but purely from a perspective of what makes the most sense I would say the view that you progress onwards gaining experience and learning through Karma before moving onto another level of existence. The idea of Heaven and Hell may inform certain states of being but still only as a learning process and never permanent states I've also been swayed by the belief that, if we do experience multiple lives, they may not run in a linear fashion. My next life may be as a 13th century gravedigger in France, the one after that a mechanic on some off planet outpost in 2436AD.



posted on Aug, 26 2007 @ 11:11 AM
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reply to post by SimiusDei
 


Dude I can only vote you once.Been there done that.Now stop derailing the dang thread.
And Iam the best damn loser, so there



posted on Aug, 26 2007 @ 03:18 PM
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Originally posted by queenannie38

#1 the accounts I have read of people who have died but not stayed dead (supposedly 'near death' experiences which is a name that doesn't make sense to me)....there is a website where they collect such accounts. nderf


The above website I think everyone should read. It is amazing some of the stuff I read last night, I was so into it that I was reading all the different experiences for hours, well they weren't all different mostly the same in what they felt and saw in their NDE. It's pretty amazing.



posted on Aug, 26 2007 @ 10:12 PM
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So, reincarnation it is thusfar.

I do notice something fairly interesting. Not one believer in heaven/hell has bothered to reply here. Funny since they usually jump all over the threads of the morons that come in here saying "How can you honestly believe in god?".

I honestly figured this subject would get a bit more activity.


Maybe they just get on here so they can argue??


Jasn



posted on Aug, 26 2007 @ 11:53 PM
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Well, I don't like to argue - I think life is just way too short for that anymore. I think we all need to have more compassion for one another.

Let's see, I was raised to believe in God, Heaven & Hell. Awhile back I started reading some of the Gnostic Gospels and there are things in them that resonate well with me. These Gospels teach that reincarnation is real - but it's more to do with how to beat it, so you don't have to come back - and if that's the way it is, I don't want to come back. I want to stay there. If there's a method to the madness I'm going to learn it.

The things I've witnessed in my life so far - there is just no way I can ever deny God or the Holy spirit. I really respect you though for being very spiritual - you sound very sincere when you speak and I just wish you well on your journey.

Very nice thread



posted on Aug, 27 2007 @ 12:06 AM
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Reincarnation reincarnation reincarnation reincarnation reincarnation reincarnation reincarnation reincarnation.

Reincarnation Reincarnation
Reincarnation



posted on Aug, 27 2007 @ 12:15 AM
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Originally posted by antar
Reincarnation reincarnation reincarnation reincarnation reincarnation reincarnation reincarnation reincarnation.

Reincarnation Reincarnation
Reincarnation


so, um, what exactly are you trying to say?

Jasn



posted on Aug, 27 2007 @ 12:35 AM
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A clue to the truth about re-incarnation can been seen all around us, anything that is organic and lives goes through cycles and is recycled. Whether it be plants that drop seeds then compost into the ground only to have them germinate again next spring. To things like weather and planetary orbits, the common theme is cycling.

I believe its more than a possibility that we re-cycle after death so as to learn and experience certain things with love being the most important. The real key to all this happens to be in my opinion whether its possible to get off the merri-go round of re-living by attaining some higher knowledge.

Dont go into the light I keep hearing as this is the portal back to life on this planet ? Don't go into the void as you will stay there for eternity ? what is the option to not come back ??

[edit on 27-8-2007 by mazzroth]



posted on Aug, 27 2007 @ 01:33 AM
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Well, I'm not sure how I would rank in your poll, but that is because I am not sure myself what I believe. I find it hard to put all my faith into one idea.

I grew up Christian, but stopped going to church around the the middle of my high school years when I realized that the church isn't just about God (but is equally, usually more, about money and power and ultimately how that shapes the church's interpretation of the Bible and God... sorry about that rambling
).

So, anyway, I grew up with the standard Christian beliefs, however, I have always been intrigued by the idea of reincarnation. It's much more appealing than Heaven/Hell. The idea that we get to experience so much more in this world (and maybe others?) than simply what we experience this time around is so... comforting, I guess you could say.

Honestly, to think that we live this one single life to determine whether or not we go to Heaven or Hell for eternity is a terrifying concept. To be in one place being "perfect" forever and ever seems extremely boring, especially when there is so much to experience just on this earth.

I'm also interested in the idea ubermunche brought up, that we may not necessarily experience our reincarnated lives in order. Or, what if we get to experience the exact lives that others have experienced. Like we all are just wearing previously worn shoes, though that would crush the idea of free will, or would it? Such concepts, I often think, are too complex to fully grasp.

I, too, am fascinated by Edgar Cayce and his "teachings" if you can call them that. I don't have any specific recollection of past lives, but I have always found myself strangely attracted to early twentieth century Europe, France in particular. It is like I feel compelled to "go back there", it's weird. It is interesting to note that I have predominately western Europe ancestry, mainly French (my last name is French, as well). Though I've had the attraction as far back as I can remember, long before I knew much of anything about my family's ancestry.

Reincarnation... it's sounds so refreshing.



posted on Aug, 27 2007 @ 03:13 AM
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Well I wouldn't say I'm an avowed disbeliever in Heaven or Hell but as I pointed out my belief is they are simply one of many states that the spiritual being might need to experience and learn from. But as static eternal rewards or punishments it seems to fly in the face of what any kind of loving or benevolent God or spiritual consciousness is about.

I suspect all religious beliefs have something to add to a greater understanding and yet they all fall short of grasping a complexity that may be beyond what our minds can encompass.



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