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Re: Pyramids, Stone Henge, and moving heavy rocks...

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posted on Aug, 25 2007 @ 03:59 AM
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What evidence do we have that these boulders/bricks are as heavy as they look? Naturally, I doubt they're like the styro-foam rocks at Universal studios. However, do we know that they are truely as 'impossibly heavy" as they appeaar. I have no idea what kind of numbers we're really taking about, but for the sake of argument, say the bricks of the great pyramid are estimated to weigh... 2 tons? (i havent the slightest). Is it not possible that a good portion of it's innards are carved out and that it weighs only 1/3 of a ton? Or perhaps the stone is encapsulating a far less dense substance for the majority of it's insides/core. Is there proof out there that this isn't the case? (at least for the higher/more impressively placed bricks/stones?

[edit on 8/25/2007 by verbal kint]




posted on Aug, 25 2007 @ 04:16 AM
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i haven't really thought about this it could be possible but i'm not an expert might ask my uncle he teaches that kind of stuff



posted on Aug, 25 2007 @ 04:20 AM
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The egyptians were telekineticly advanced and moved them with there minds? no?

ok im going with a pully system, lots of people, or aliens. Im just not sure sorry.



posted on Aug, 25 2007 @ 08:48 AM
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Wasn't it recently proven that these are not natural rocks, that they had been cast into place? I remember reading it from ATS few months back. I'll look and see if I can find it.



posted on Aug, 25 2007 @ 02:03 PM
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Not sure it was proven, but it was a pretty good theory. Essentially they would just big bricks.

What really is the question: Have anyone gathered 500+ people to actually attempt some *real* theoretical transportation and construction? All examples I've seen (whether it be pyramids or giant statues or whatever) have like 10 people trying to pull a rock with little to no understanding of how :/



posted on Aug, 25 2007 @ 02:20 PM
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Hi

The outside of the pyramid isn´t even important.
The great pyramid contains a huge granite sarcophagus and much more parts of Aswan Red, Rosso Aswan granite.
How the Egyptians worked the solid granite is still a matter of debate.
Also how they moved from Aswan to Giza those blocks cause it 900km.

Nando out!



posted on Aug, 25 2007 @ 02:27 PM
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The idea of a 'poured' block was advanced by Dr. Barsoum. It hasn't been shown to be correct. His idea is that some, not all, the stones were poured. If you look at the existing stones they are uneven and difference shapes so a standard 'cast' in highly unlikely.

For how the Egyptians pulled things around:

This is of actual Egyptian art of how they did it

www.catchpenny.org...

More information and a bit on how the Mesopotamians did it

hbar.phys.msu.su...

I once had to move a 4 ton (oh if you know the dimensions of a stone you then put in a numerical value based on the type of stone, limestone, granite and that gives you the approximate weight) I moved it 100 meters with 21 students, so yes you can do it but it is back breaking work!



[edit on 25-8-2007 by Hanslune]



posted on Aug, 25 2007 @ 04:21 PM
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The blocks are solid stone, and weigh extreme amounts. It is surprising how heavy granite is and how quickly a small amount adds up to a large weight.
Hollowing out the blocks is an impracticle idea, as is filling them with a less dense substance. The time required to do so would take more effort than just moving the original block. It also would require technology that was not availiable at the time. They could hollow out a block or slab, but it wasn't done often because of the dificulty level and time required to do so. The advanced technology would be needed to do so in a mass fashion. As well, they wouldn't support the weight of the stone above them, and would show up as split of crushed blocks.
They have weighed several of the stones and lintels at Stonehenge during the rebuild many years ago. There was a period when they tried to reassemble Stonehenge, and the stones that they moved were all weighed by the crane during the required lifts. At some point they decided to leave the rest of the site as is and ceased reconstruction.
There have been several exercises in practical archeology in which a team gets together to recreate how something was done. They found that the moving of the stones wasn't as difficult as they thought, and that the standing up of the standing stones was also fairly easy. The real surprise was how quickly the lintels could be raised to height and moved into position just using levers, cribbing, ropes and a large group of people.
Never underestimate the power of a crowd with levers. You'd be surprised at what they can do.



posted on Aug, 25 2007 @ 04:43 PM
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There's also the theory that it was all moved with water pumps...

New Dawn Mag


The Ancients were doing what every engineer does before he undertakes a massive construction project. The machine comes first, and in this case it was a water pump. These subterranean cuttings formed a hydraulic ram pump. The lower diagonal holds about 88 tons of water! When the valve in the drain is opened the water in the lower diagonal moves down. Then the drain valve is closed. The water in the lower diagonal continues to move down compressing the air in the Subterranean Chamber. This chamber has an air capacity of 7000 cubic feet! Once this moving water has compressed the air to the maximum, the water stops moving. At that point, the check valve in the upper end of the lower diagonal closes. The highly compressed air in the Subterranean Chamber pushes water up through the “grotto” and onto the rocky knoll. Research including computer modelling shows that the water ram pump would easily pump water to a height of the top of the completed Great Pyramid.


Seems like a real possibility.

I know that once I saw a documentary on the Disovery Channel about this and they could move them rather easily with a pulley system. I can't remember the name of it.

Another idea is that they put the giant brick into a hollow cylinder with a rope coiled around it. You, well three or four guys, would pull the rope to 'roll' it up to it's resting place. Or something like that. It's been a while since I looked into this subject.

Thanks for bringing it up today!!

Zen



posted on Aug, 25 2007 @ 07:58 PM
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Hi

Mankind had no limit back then not only in Egypt but in S.America, Cambodja,Babylon all those world wonders.

Nowadays it´s different were sheep compared to then humans back then.

This is the most important reason why modern human has to know how the pyramids were build.

What we lack today is the motivation to put the plan into effect and the resources to carry it out, both abundant in ancient Egypt during the Pyramid Age.

Nando out!



posted on Aug, 26 2007 @ 01:25 AM
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Well genetically we are still hunter-gathers fresh from Africa.

Physically, a modern trained athlete would be superior to anyone of the ancient world.

People who live in the undeveloped world are incredibly tough mentally and physically. Civilized man is a softy but if brought up in the proper environment they would be fine- better nutrition and suppression of infection means we are a lot bigger and stronger than our ancestors.

Why do you think we are sheep now? One thing we are far superior in to the ancients is our much greater lack of superstition. Replacing religions as a way to explain the world with science gives us an immmeasurable advantage.



posted on Aug, 26 2007 @ 09:56 AM
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Well, the Coral Castle's builder...
"The castle’s walls and gates prove his private nature. In 1940, after the carvings were in place, Ed finished erecting the walls. The coral Walls approximately weigh 125 pounds per cubic foot. Each section of wall is 8 feet tall, 4 feet wide, 3 foot thick, and weighs more than 58 tons!

If anyone ever questioned Ed about how he moved the blocks of coral, Ed would only reply that he understood the laws of weight and leverage well. He even built an AC Current generator! This all from a man with only a fourth grade education. His incredible feats truly need to be witnessed in person in order to be appreciated . There is no record of anyone observing Ed carving in Florida City or in Homestead. He has baffled engineers and scientists! People have compared Ed’s secret method of construction to Stonehenge and the Great Pyramids. "

Energy currents!



posted on Aug, 26 2007 @ 04:05 PM
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While we are bigger, faster and stronger than our ancestors, we became sheeple when we lost the physical and mental toughness to do what is required. You can still find it in some of the population, but they are usually discounted because of their job description. Most city dwellers don't have the will to go out and take on a long term difficult project like a pyramid or Stonehenge.
Just finding enough bodies to help you move is a problem these days.



posted on Aug, 26 2007 @ 06:58 PM
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Howdy Direwolf

I would agree with you in part. Westerner's for the most part lack the religious frevor that many of the ancients seem to have had.

I would say the Western man still has the capacity to do amazing things thou. I mean somebody was able to actually make "Gilligian's Island" and not die from shame.



posted on Aug, 27 2007 @ 04:48 AM
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Originally posted by Direwolf
While we are bigger, faster and stronger than our ancestors

While we surely has become bigger, we're not faster or stronger than our ancestors.

I mean, take 30 average men from Texas and have them try to pull a pyramid block. At least half would have a heart attack before 50 meters.



posted on Aug, 27 2007 @ 05:58 AM
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Hi

I will say it again cause I believe it´s the whole truth in my opinion.

What we lack today is the motivation to put the plan into effect and the resources to carry it out, both abundant in ancient Egypt during the Pyramid Age and to all other old civiliazations.

Has nothing to do with strenght.

but with putting aside personal material gain.

Nando out!



posted on Aug, 29 2007 @ 09:40 AM
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Originally posted by Direwolf
While we are bigger, faster and stronger than our ancestors, we became sheeple when we lost the physical and mental toughness to do what is required. You can still find it in some of the population, but they are usually discounted because of their job description. Most city dwellers don't have the will to go out and take on a long term difficult project like a pyramid or Stonehenge.
Just finding enough bodies to help you move is a problem these days.


Yeah, because thousands of miles of roads and railways, thousands of dams and buildings, modern monuments, etc. are easy compared to a few pyramids and such... The "New Deal" didn't motivate any kind of labor force in the early 20th century and massive amounts of manpower being mobilized for any kind of modern war is nearly impossible. Yeah, the early civs peoples were so much better then us sheeples.



posted on Aug, 29 2007 @ 05:09 PM
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We also have generalized performance abilities of a number of athletes/warriors and hunters of the ancient world. Present day mankind can match or beat these.

The best example of I can think of 'ancient' people's conditioning is to look at modern (19th century) hunter gathers who could stalk, spear a large animal then drive/track it for several days until it dropped from exhaustion. My own experiences with Sherpa, Gunung and Miskito tribes people reinforces their toughness.

Modern people (western style civilization) have not need for that level of physical fitness. If it were required they would be able to adapt to it within a few months (based on age).

I can remember when my Grandfather who at the age of 73, a lifetime farmer, cut 150 trees down in two days, with an axe, he worked 16 hours a day.



posted on Aug, 29 2007 @ 05:17 PM
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Hey now, be nice. The period you are refering to was full of people with physical and mental toughness. Don't mix your apples and oranges. In the early twentieth century it was easy to find people to help you move your house, let alone your furniture. I'm refering to present day, 2007 type folks who hire a company to come and mow their grass while they go to the gym to work out.
Because those roads are built and all the projects done, there is no motivation to go out and do them. Just try to get a unpaid crew together to build a strenuous project. Something simple, like quarrying out a 20ft standing stone, hauling it to your house and raising it in the back yard. It would only be weekends for a couple years, and they could drink beer when it was done.



posted on Aug, 29 2007 @ 08:52 PM
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Ah put the Egyptians and others "paid" there workers with a place to live and food and drink. The craftman's village found in the 1990 showed that the men worked hard but then most non-elite did so.

Amish still put up churches. I often deal with and participate in archaeological digs. Where the people pay to come to work. I can suggest you'll find a lot of people there who'd be willing to do so.

Look up earthwatch. Much of the todays archaeology is fueled by volunteers.

Oh if you thought I was god and my power brought the flood and the sun and caused all the crops to grow you might be motivated. People are smarter than that now - well we still do have cults!



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