yeah...thats what buddhists say. thats what all major religions say...they are all really keen on suffering. but by practicing appropriate thinking, speaking and acting today, I can easily do without suffering today...and will be more productive.

Suffering comes in many forms. You can make a mistake that will lead you to a period of solitude, when all passions and desires are non existent. You might never get a chance to indulge for a while, and may have to give up yourself. That is the ultimate sacrifice. The biggest of all.....the giving up of self. We as humans can experience lots of pleasure. We can eat a nice chocolate cake and suffer for it. We can have lots of sex and suffer for it. We can buy ourselves nice jewelery and clothes to lure the women in, and yes, we will suffer for it.

Give it all up, forget the emotional highs. Our endocrine system is a personal drug dealer for us all. We want the emotional high. We invent drama in our lives to feel alive, and some don't feel alive unless their is emotion involved. Very understandable, but it's not true. These emotions damage your health tremendously. Connect with yourself by connecting with nature first. Observe the beauty around you by going to the beach more, or a hiking trip. Get away from the artificial enviornment we created. To get in touch with god, you must be around nature constantly. But a dog or cat and respect it. Keep it around you and realize how much we have in common with them.

StreetCorner Philosopher sez:
Beliefs have nothing to do with emotions.
Beliefs stem from the accumulation of analytical observation.
Actions are to emotions."

Ah, I believe I was misunderstood. Allow me to define the words I used so I know I am communicating what I originally intended:

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

Sensations:
Feelings associated with the body in the physical (i.e. Outer) environment.

Actions:
Actions (i.e. a movement in moment building) associated with the physical (i.e. Outer) environment.

Emotions:
Feelings associated with the mind/heart in the mental/spiritual (i.e. Inner) environment.

Beliefs:
Actions (i.e. a movement in moment building) associated with the mental/spiritual (i.e. Inner) environment.

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

Analytical observation is also dependent upon one's state of being at the time of analysis (which means OBSERVATION IS SUBJECTIVE! OMG! Does anyone else feel the resonance of that truth?!?! OBJECTIVITY IS AN ILLUSION!! ). If one is in fear, as you stated yourself Philosopher, one is irrational and will (unconsciously and thus unawarely) make an irrational analysis. If this analysis is treated on par (i.e. equally) with its rational brothers, it will cause confusion and chaos among one's Inner Environment.

We (as in awakening humanity) tend to believe (and thus expect and look for reasons) that our Inner Environment is a direct result of our Outer Environment - and this, by my (i.e. from my perspective) observations, is insanity.

A good definition of insanity:
Doing the same exact mathematical addition-problem over and over (1+1=?) while expecting differing sums (1+1=2, 1+1=3, 1+1=4, etc).

I have observed that the Belief/Emotional Field creates the Action/Sensation Field! This means WE ARE FREE from the confines of our physical reality and can begin to build any life we desire for ourselves!

As we change our Inner Environment, our Outer Environment will reflect these changes!

From my perspective (and that is all I can own), Beliefs shape Observations.

Interesting how Edgar Cayce foretold the sun is affected by human conciousness and actions. I too have seen how white the sun is and not inviting. 79% rise in teenage suicides recently nationally reported. For sure, times are a changing.

Originally posted by Skyfloating
in other words, once a lesson is learned pain neednt be perpetuated. and we dont ALWAYS need to experience pain in order to know something is changing. Thats what we have been USED TO in the last thousand years, but there just MIGHT BE another way. I only want to experience pain when I am doing something wrong. In this sense pain is only to wake me up.

YES! This is PRECISELY what I believe!

As for the Buddhist belief that Salvation comes from Suffering - I believe when/if Buddha said this, he meant it in a very simple and straightforward mental/spiritual concept. I will attempt to explain my analysis of its meaning:

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

We are born unconsciously into Perfection as Perfection (i.e. Love, Joy, Gratitude, Playfulness, Curiosity, Compassion, Well-Being, etc) and we fall from it based on a misunderstanding between our Outer/Inner Environments' relationship with one another, and this is (more or less) propagated by parent/guardians, schools, societies, governments, all which potentially might have made observations in fear and thus should be crossed-checked by oneself...

And yet...

One's ability to cross-check is minimal from the Time of Birth to the Coming of Age, mostly due to a lack of information to draw from (only mysterious/genetic memory can be used initially) and the impressionability of youth (as it is meant to be).

The Time of Birth is about discovering the how, what, where, why, and when of our experience.
The Coming of Age is experienced upon the discovery that all of the above is a direct result of our own focus (intent = creation) and that we are one of many with this ability in all of existence (i.e. we are not alone in the universe).

We are Coming of Age as humanity right now, realizing that it is OUR OWN hand that directs our destiny rather than any outside force. We must claim responsibility for our suffering (suffering is pain re-experienced) by acknowledging that the only one who is capable of inflicting true suffering on oneself is only oneself.

This is true as a person (Bill Rossman is responsible for Bill Rossman) as it is for a world (Earth is responsible for Earth).

Salvation by definition* is the state of being protected from suffering.
(* = definition brought to you by my discernment and dictionary.com)

One cannot be protected from something one has never experienced... so by my own observations, perceptions, and philosophies I would say Buddha was referring to the fact that the very moment one has experienced suffering, salvation is at hand - available for anyone who wishes to let go of the suffering and embrace salvation.

One cannot hold a flower if one is already holding onto a rock.

&

Only once one knows what a rock is can one choose to leave the rock alone.

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

I consider myself part Zen-Buddhist... I guess it shows.

Hello Everyone !!!!!

I have had a shift in my consciousness lately as well.
I feel that I am now getting spiritual messages through to me from my Higher Self. These messages have proven themself to me, as often a few days after I am given them, they are confirmed in some way by something I see when doing further research. I can post them if anyone wants to read them. I don't know if you are able to or not.
I have gained and understanding on why things are the way they are at the moment and where we are going.
The only doom and gloom I am seeing will be aimed towards what I have been told are the Controllers as they lose their grip on power. Some of them are in for a bad time. Would you want to be the person responsible for holding back Free Energy?

I think the Mayan Calender explains best the consciousness shift. It gives you a good insight as to the processes that are happening. I can give a link if anyone is interested.

We are at the good bit. This is the time that Ethics will conquer Power over the next 3 years or so. We are in a cycle where there is a shift now every 360 days or so.

Already the collective conscious mind is in its infancy aka the Internet.
Google Earth is the 1st step in the conscious mind wanting instant movement / teleportation around the world. This is how a UFO is controlled. Think where you want to go and you are there.
The Peoples of other Planets have just started to lift the veil and have started the gradual process of revealing themselves, with or without the American Government. This will climax with an event so big that no one will be left with any doubt as to their existance.
The Power of Media is the 1st to fall. This will cause the collapse of the other Power Bases as information can not be held back anymore.

These are the sort of things to look for. They are the precursors to the 4th Density.

Just Bring It !!!!!!

Hey TrueAce !!!!!!

Thanks for the nice comments.
You and the others in this thread are described in the messages from my HigherSelf as Contenders.
I have sent you a U2U with a copy of the first bunch of messages to see what you think. It explains what a Contender is and what is happening.
These messages have been posted in another forum in ATS so I dunno if it is right to post them again here.
Your feedback would be appreciated.

Originally posted by Skyfloating
yeah...thats what buddhists say. thats what all major religions say...they are all really keen on suffering. but by practicing appropriate thinking, speaking and acting today, I can easily do without suffering today...and will be more productive.

I understand, but what human is courageous enough to do so without the lessons learned? How will spiritual development progress unless one is traumatized first? I don't think many can give up themselves and remove their self image and individualization from the world. Not many have that kind of courage.

One needs a break up with a girlfriend, or a physical injury or surgery to realize how good they had it, and not to take the simple things in life for granted.