I don't understand... Are you saying that a belief in other life out there requires faith? This is a wrong assumption. There IS life out there. Where here, right? We can create the most basic building blocks of life, right? We know for a fact that these same basic's exist out in space naturally, right? So where does faith come into play?

Reflecting God James

Can you clarify that for me.....please?

As mentioned in relation to the concept of the Weave
Mankind is a part of what makes reality function. The fact we are here (Sol system) is part of a necessity.

This one planet cannot be more special than another planet out there. There is nothing here that would make it so...

If there is life here, there is life out there...

What you are saying is that Life is a random event. I disagree; life is not random but rather the result of physics. That life exists is for a reason, this reason related to existence on the cosmological scale.

Life on some planet is not irrelevant James in regard to the whole picture (it is not waste material). If all life in the known Universe were to suddenly be destroyed what is presently known of the Universe would be affected by this event (in fact it might even cease to exist).

What are your thoughts?


PS:

I think I should've clarified something of my own as well

I don't think life is something random... I think it's something that naturally and regularly occur's. I think you should read my topic on the paranormal board

Would ask that you provide a link to your comments at the threads you have presented your claims.

James I have seen every post you have presented, despite the fact you often offer an atheist claim. There does seem to be a Pagan influence you have not forgotten (although you do not often admit it) .

Yes, James they made him up to be Satan, but have you ever seen the image of Um Kaax. What is unfortunate for the Vatican is that corn is a starch, otherwise an alternative to what had in the past is defined as Satan would be clear.

People, which James? please either use JamesG or JTL. I am confused.

Toltec, if to me, never heard of Um Kaax, if to JamesG, uh, that's all.

Kaax? Is that a word??

To lazy to make a link... But it's my only post in the paranormal board here...

You guy's can call me Jim if you'd rather that instead of James or JamesG....

Yes it is a word see at bottom

Ah Kinchil
In Maya mythology, Ah Kinchil is the sun god.

Ah Puch
In Maya mythology, Ah Puch is the god of death.

Ahau Chamahez
In Maya mythology, Ahau Chamahez was one of two gods of medicine.

Ahmakiq
In Maya mythology, Ahmakiq is a god of agriculture. He locks up the wind when it threatens to destroy the crops.

Akhushtal
In Maya mythology, Akhushtal is the goddess of childbirth.

Bacabs
In Maya mythology, the bacabs are the canopic gods. They stand at the four corners of the world supporting the heavens.

Centeotl
In Aztec mythology, Centeotl was the corn god. He was a son of Tlazolteotl and the husband of Xochiquetzal.

Chalchiuhtlicue
In Aztec mythology, Chalchiuhtlicue was the goddess of running water. She was the sister of Tlaloc.

Chantico
In Aztec mythology, Chantico was the goddess of hearth fires and volcanoes.

Chicomecoatl
In Aztec mythology, Chicomecoatl was the goddess of corn and fertility.

Cihuacoatl
In Aztec mythology, Cihuacoatl was a goddess whose roaring signalled war.

Cit Bolon Tum
In Maya mythology, Cit Bolon Tum was a god of medicine.

Ehecatl
In Aztec mythology, Ehecatl was the god of wind.

Ekahau
In Maya mythology, Ekahau is the god of travellers and merchants.

Huitzilopochtli
In Aztec mythology, Huitzilopochtli was the son of Coatlicue and a god of war and the sun.

Huixtocihuatl
In Aztec mythology, Huixtocihuatl is the goddess of salt.

Itzpapalotl
In Aztec mythology, Itzpapalotl is a goddess of agriculture.

Ix Chel
In Maya mythology, Ix Chel is the goddess of the moon.

Ixtab
In Maya mythology, Ixtab is the goddess of the hanged. She receives their souls into paradise.

Ixtlilton
In Aztec mythology, Ixtlilton was the god of healing, feasting and games.

Kan-u-Uayeyab
In Maya mythology, Kan-u-Uayeyab was the god who guarded cities.

Kinich Kakmo
In Maya mythology, Kinich Kakmo is the sun god symbolised by the Macaw.

Kisin
In Maya mythology, Kisin is the evil earthquake spirit. He lives beneath the earth in a purgatory where all souls except those of soldiers killed in battle and women who died in childbirth spend some time. Suicides are doomed to his realm for eternity.

Kukucan
In Maya mythology, Kukucan is the wind god.

Macuilxochitl
In Aztec mythology, Macuilxochitl was the god of music and dance.

Mayahuel
In Aztec mythology, Mayahuel was a goddess of maguey.

Metztli
In Aztec mythology, Metztli was the moon god.

Mictlan
In Aztec mythology, Mictlan was the underworld. It was the home of all the dead except warriors and women who died in labour.

Mictlantecuhtli
In Aztec mythology, Mictlantecuhtli was the god of Mictlan and the dead.

Mitnal
In Maya mythology, Mitnal was the underworld hell where the wicked were tortured.

Nacon
In Maya mythology, Nacon was the god of war.

Ometecuhtli
In Aztec mythology, Ometecuhtli was the god of duality.

Patecatl
In Aztec mythology, Patecatl was the god of medicine.

Paynal
In Aztec mythology, Paynal was the messenger to Huitzilopochtli.

Quetzalcoati
In Aztec and Toltec mythology, Quetzalcoati was the feathered serpant god.

Quetzalcoatl
In ancient Mexican mythology, Quetzalcoatl was the god of the air. He presided over commerce, and was said to have predicted the coming of the Spaniards.

Teoyaomqui
In Aztec mythology, Teoyaomqui is the god of dead warriors.

Tlaloc
In Aztec mythology, Tlaloc is the great rain and fertility god. He lived at Tlalocan with the corn goddesses.

Tlalocan
In Aztec mythology, Tlalocan was the paradise of Tlaloc. It was where the souls of those killed by lightning, dropsy, skin diseases and those sacrificed to Tlaloc went.

Tlazolteotl
In Aztec mythology, Tlazolteotl was the goddess of licentiousness.

Tonacatecuhtli
In Aztec mythology, Tonacatecuhtli was the creator and provider of food.

Tonatiuh
In Aztec mythology, Tonatiuh was a sun-god, the eagle and heavenly warrior.

Xilonen
In Aztec mythology, Xilonen was the goddess of young maize. She was a wife of Tezcatlipoca.

Xipe Totec
In Aztec mythology, Xipe Totec was the god of seedtime.

Xochipilli
In Aztec mythology, Xochipilli was the god of feasting and young maize.

Yacatecuhtli
In Aztec mythology, Yacatecuhtli was the god of merchant adventurers.

Yaxche
In Maya mythology, Yaxche is the tree of heaven under which good souls rejoice.

Yum Kaax
In Maya mythology, Yum Kaax is the maize god.

What is the difference between a dirt ball and earth.

Lets Compare shall we.

1.Dirt Ball= Dirt Ball
Earth = Ball of dirt
2.Dirt Ball has Organizms living on it.
Earth has Organizms living on it.
3.Dirt Ball has Texture
Earth has texture.
4.Dirt has some form of life of what can be concidered intelgent life.
Earth has what could be concidered to be intelgent life.
5.Dirt Ball has color
Earth has color
6.Dirt Ball has a atomic mass
Earth has a atomic mass
7.Dirt Ball has some value to some someone
Earth has some value to some people
8.Dirt Ball has disease
Earth Has disease.
9.Dirt ball can be stable but if messed with by man starts to fall apart.
Earth can be stable in nature until man decides to get involved
10.Dirt ball can be made to float if given the right propertys.
Earth Already Floats in space.

I am sure that you can find many more example of the similartys between a dirtball and earth. I just had to throw this in here with the subject about billions of planets out there why is this one so special. White light energy dictates the Universes Existance. It has to have the Capablity to Make Planets Space and All forms of matter in My Thoughts God= Time, Time= White Light Energy. This to a cirtin degree makes sense when you think about it. Some form's of light can be damaging while other can be made to heal It is also Ironic that light is manifisted inside of a photon a fragment of white light energy traped but yet still having the capablity to escape its boundrys. Looking at the Stucture of the Universe it becomes clear that all things in the universe are disigned to Expand and then be distroyed in nature. When looked upon more. A black hole is concidered to be by most scientist to be a hole in space at which space is and time or light is consumed. This leads on to conclude threw observation that when matter is displaced threw a black hole be it a planet or a star that star is broken down to the point at which it temperaly crosses the zero vector and then does one of 3 things. Either it exits threw another Black hole in space spining the other direction that it originaly came in at or it is sent threw a white hole in space which could be the subatomic matter of a photon or a actual white hole in space. This would be The Universes or Gods way if that is the way you wish to discribe it. Of Recycling the Universe the same as life. Billions of planets and stars indeed. Looking at the Fundementals of life leads one to conclude that As we see the relationships to ourselves so do we too see our relationships to the Universe as well as Subuniverses and MacroUniverse.

All Life and Death Light and Dark So on so Forth Are linked together Perhaps not able to seperate for what ever reason that could be what is refured to in the bible as the war between heaven and hell on the one hand you have light which could stand for god and dark which could stand for Satin. Intersting that the Universe is constantly Distroying and Creating itself. Being that satin was or is writen to be one of gods angels it seems funny that universe seems to linked in the same way.

Just a thought I have put in my 2 cents on this matter.



Falcon

Long Live Physics.

Well, we are not special, I can tell you that. We are a miserable grain of sand inside an indifferent and vast Universe. There is no such thing as a god (IMHO) and even if there was, what makes us believe that it will even care about us? Human folly!

But even though we are tiny and insignificant, we are not that bad either. Hey, life is short! Why should we waste it away with our banal fights and riots? The only thing we all can be certain of is the reality of Death, and once death arrives thereís no way to be certain of what lays ahead. Some of us believe there is nothing but oblivion, others believe in a Heavenly Paradise, itís all fine and well.

In the end, some just want to feel more comfortable inside this unstable UniverseÖ it is just natural. Thatís the why of religion, mystical beliefs and even governments. We humans look for stability, order and symmetry so thatís why we create this institutions and beliefs.


Toltec, you say the following:

"life is not random but rather the result of physics. That life exists is for a reason, this reason related to existence on the cosmological scale. "

That is not quite true. The reason why our physical laws are the way they are is due the initial conditions of the singularity from which our Universe sprang. Had these conditions been a little bit different, stars would age faster and rocky planets would never harbor life, etc.

These conditions were random.

Therefore, life is a random event.

Life exists here because this planet meets the necessary conditions to bring up life, building it up on the laws of the Universe; if these conditions are repeated somewhere else life MIGHT emerge; we most consider other variables, like for example solar radiation, ratio of impact from space debris, and even the life's capacity for self destruction.

On the other hand, maybe there are more variables for the emergence of life... who knows.

If life is a random event there is no reason for life to exist. Conscious life creates its own reason to be. Looking for our reason to be as a sign in the stars is a waste of time, for we make our futures and thus we make our reasons to be.



[Edited on 9-12-2002 by Magna_Machina]

i agree with falcon & mm

also though, ive been getting into a habit of thinking which i cant get out of. All these "amazing" things that a lot of todays technology brings us may seem really pathetic to someone else out there. Like oh wow we can make a mouse grow an ear- who cares? In the end what does technology bring us? TV- a brainwashing tool, secret weaponry- perfect for smashing each other to bits- what fun. one day the whole damn worlds gonna be a massive cyber freak and youlll be lucky if you can see a blade of grass (arrgh sounding too green peace) basically im saying i dont find anything amazing what we've found out. like cloning- its just gonna really screw things up and lead to over population so more human made diseases will be let out so more people die while scientists pretend to be searching for a cure.
the only really useful tech is communication- telephone, internet, and robots

Magna take what is often considered a random event such as throwing a set dice. If you can calculate every condition which can have an effect on the outcome, one thing you realize is that in fact the outcome was not random at all. But rather the result of all the forces which acted upon it.

As far as the earth and life here, the fact that we exist here. Is the result of all the forces which acted upon this place in space and time.

Its not a random reality its one based in physics.

going back to a point way previous, why cant aliens have a religion? part of the curse of awareness is that you know you are mortal, that there is no real purpose to things and this is it. knowing this creates an incredible feeling of lonelyness among creatures. so they create god, god will save you, he provides an escape from this world because you know that at the end you have a place to go to. just because you are of advanced intelligence doesnt mean you are immortal. these beings would try to explain existence to cure their hopelessness, and where science fails religion steps in, religion has an answer to everything, and no matter what there is always someone watching over you.

XAOS

has anyone read any of the manifold series by stephen baxter, such as manifold: space, mainfold: time, or manifold: origin. these books propse theories on the fermi paradox, the rise of humans and the beginning
of the universe. I'm posting here 'cause the discussion is on the infinite number of planets and lack of intelligent life. in manifold: space, baxter discusses what the reasons for lack of extraterrestrial contact was.

XAOS

Originally posted by Toltec Its not a random reality its one based in physics.

I like to contemplate even one step further than that...Who or what decreed or created the *conditions* that set up the "laws of physics" that the universe lives & dies by?...

If you can think about the point you've expressed, what's to stop you from going another step beyond that point? And then even another step beyond that? Ad infinitum!

MM Infinity for me is a part of mans realm. Therefore what we understand as such (now or in the future). Is the extent to which our awareness has the capacity to Explore perceptually and physically what is in reality.

What is beyond that is God.

Infinity and all that it entails is not perfection. And neither does understanding reality from this perspective make us Gods. A potential conspiracy exists, in relation to this condition being deterred rather than embraced in relation to mankind's social and individual development.


In that light would suggest
What is Faith without Intent?

What are your thoughts?

The greys are readying us for contact. May be a few years yet. We cannot totally communicate with them. Them being telepathic and all. I have heard some where from a guy that was in contact with the greys, for the government, that he was told the earth was in its infancy and to expect a lot of change really soon. He/she/it also said that our sun was very special and in a few years we would find out just how special our solar system is. Earth in particular. Why else would "little grey men" (not green) be watching our planet. Aliens have been in the earliest writings and pictures. And they always look the same. Doesn't that do it for you? Is that proof enough?

Earth is different.
The human race in general is different.