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US friendly fire kills British soldiers in Afghanistan

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posted on Aug, 25 2007 @ 03:11 PM
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The three British soldiers killed by US "friendly fire" in southern Afghanistan have been officially named.

Privates Aaron McClure, 19, Robert Foster, also 19, and John Thrumble, 21, of the 1st Battalion The Royal Anglian Regiment, died on Thursday


Please visit the link provided for the complete story.


news.bbc.co.uk...

Two are younger than me, the other is my age




posted on Aug, 25 2007 @ 03:12 PM
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The US airforce has a history of killing it's allies by mistake. Canada has also lost men in Afganistan to the Jet Jocks and their cavalier attitude to combat. These friendly fire episodes are a direct result of the Top Gun culture that is prevalent in the American Fighter world. There is no way for anyone but the US to fix this problem, and they are not about to start instilling the type of flight discipline that is required. They would have to totally overhaul the training system and change the attitude of every flyer in their forces.
What you don't see is the large amount of complaints about US combat pilots and their actions from NATO commanders and air controllers. As well, the staff that support the air operations are frequently working on out dated information and intelligence because they are not updating their offices and not attending the boring update meetings.
Fighting along side the US is dangerous, and there are nations that won't call for US air support unless they have no option.
And this is not meant as US bashing, it is just the information that I have had passed to me from people who have served in Afganistan, Iraq and Bosnia. As well as my first hand experience with US fighter Pilots.



posted on Aug, 25 2007 @ 03:24 PM
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They fire first and think later,' say British soldiers





The friendly-fire deaths in Helmand have reopened a schism between American and British troops over how to fight the Taleban in Afghanistan.

Although publicly British commanders insist the Americans are still a vital ally in the fight against insurgents, privately British soldiers expressed concern and anger at their "gung-ho" approach.

“Whenever I hear we have American jets overhead I get f***ing worried,” another serviceman said. “They just don’t seem to know what they are doing a lot of the time.”

“They have a different approach to us, they fire first and think later,” said another.


Please visit the link provided for the complete story.


Times Online



posted on Aug, 25 2007 @ 05:20 PM
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If you have ever listend to the calling in of an airstrike...(and i doubt that most of you have)...you hear alot of permission calling....first the ground guys get permission to call in an airstrike..they give co-ordinates...then they have to get a plane...they(the planes) have to get the co-ordinates then they have to relay them back to whoever is in charge of them and their bomb droppings...it is questioned there...then permission is sent back...the ground guys are then told to take cover....

when something like this happens it's a sad sad day.....and it's not because of an american gung-ho attitude....it's because somewhere along the line....the co-ordinates were miscalculated or misheard....

when the a-10's strafed the brittish troops....you hear the conversation

Manila is the ground, Popov35 is the a-10

1337.03 MANILA HOTEL:

I understand that was north 800 metres.

1337.12 MANILA HOTEL:

POPOV, understand that was north 800 metres?

1337.16 POPOV35:

Confirm, north 800 metres. Confirm there are no friendlies this far north on the ground.

1337.21 MANILA HOTEL:

That is an affirm. You are well clear of friendlies.


it's not the gung ho attitude....and clearence is needed and always asked and repeated....



posted on Aug, 25 2007 @ 05:31 PM
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reply to post by infinite
 



"They are meant to have the best equipment, yet this still happens time and time again. You have to wonder what they are doing.”
Times online

Please visit the link provided for the complete story.



Either he is ignorant or the story you posted earlier was in error that stated there have only been two FF incidents in Afganistan and this was the second and the first was Suspected so where is he getting this time and time again BS?


There has only been one other suspected case of British service personnel being killed by US friendly fire in Afghanistan, but it is still under investigation.
BBC.co

Please visit the link provided for the complete story.



posted on Aug, 25 2007 @ 10:15 PM
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Originally posted by infinite
Of course we do.
Prime Minister Brown is on the right path so far by slowly moving away, but we should stand with our European partners in the EU.

I've said it many times, NATO should be disbanded and replaced with a European Union defence pact.



In the Clinton years I would say this was a bad idea but in the days of the NeoCon's this is something we must do. The only way to counter US dominance and maintain world order is through a united European military. Not so much to "fight" the US but to re-establish Europe as a world player and a pact that could balance US policy on the global stage.



posted on Aug, 26 2007 @ 12:27 AM
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Originally posted by shots
Either he is ignorant or the story you posted earlier was in error that stated there have only been two FF incidents in Afganistan and this was the second and the first was Suspected so where is he getting this time and time again BS?



There have been more than 2 incidents in Afghanistan, Shots, and you know it.



posted on Aug, 26 2007 @ 01:32 AM
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Just typical of what we have come to expect from a bunch of "rip, shyte and bust merchants".

Gun happy, shoot first and ask questions later.

I believe that the UK and Australia should abandon the coalition in Iraq and Afghanistan. Let the US military star in their own bogus WOT.




posted on Aug, 26 2007 @ 04:44 AM
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Originally posted by stumason

Originally posted by shots
Either he is ignorant or the story you posted earlier was in error that stated there have only been two FF incidents in Afganistan and this was the second and the first was Suspected so where is he getting this time and time again BS?



There have been more than 2 incidents in Afghanistan, Shots, and you know it.


Well at least provide some examples if you're goiing to make these statements. I am not aware of any others and certainly none involving the loss of Coalition lives.



posted on Aug, 26 2007 @ 05:55 AM
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I think it's such a tragedy when this happens, even more so than if it was the enemy that killed one of our soldiers. The effect this will have on the departed's families but also the U.S pilots will be having a hard time as well. Such a tragedy.



posted on Aug, 26 2007 @ 06:17 AM
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Originally posted by PW229
In the Clinton years I would say this was a bad idea but in the days of the NeoCon's this is something we must do. The only way to counter US dominance and maintain world order is through a united European military. Not so much to "fight" the US but to re-establish Europe as a world player and a pact that could balance US policy on the global stage.


You are right.

Some EU member states are discussing a possible defence pact, which is the right thing to do. We don't need NATO anymore, the cold war is over.



posted on Aug, 26 2007 @ 07:37 AM
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Anyone who thinks The Cold War is over, imo, is being quite naive in light of recent Russian policy.
I for 1 would prefer the suport of the US over France, Italy etc in any disagreement with Russia.

Back on thread,
I don't think anyone has said that any FF occurence is deliberate.

The US has promised full co-operation in this investigation. Let's wait for the outcome and see what the response is.
If deemed that this was due to neglicence etc and that criminal proceedings should commence, then let's see how the US react.
If it was due to procedural errors, then other solutions must be sought.

Whilst I accept that FF is inevitable, we can not just accept it and must try to reduce the number of occurences.



posted on Aug, 26 2007 @ 07:46 AM
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Originally posted by Freeborn
I for 1 would prefer the suport of the US over France, Italy etc in any disagreement with Russia.


I'd prefer our European partners than the US.



Whilst I accept that FF is inevitable, we can not just accept it and must try to reduce the number of occurences.


The argument by fellow British members is the US has a habit of whitewashing investigation and refuses to take part in inquires.

When an inquiry calls for the pilots to be sent, they should be.



posted on Aug, 26 2007 @ 07:50 AM
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Originally posted by infinite
I'd prefer our European partners than the US.


The same European partners who are slowly turning Britain into a nanny state? Perhaps the same 'allies' that were selling missles to Argentina during the Falklands conflict?

I'd rather move closer to the US than be distancing ourselves.



posted on Aug, 26 2007 @ 07:54 AM
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Originally posted by Knights
The same European partners who are slowly turning Britain into a nanny state?


I was unaware that France or Germany was turning the UK into a "nanny state", well...looks like I missed that one on the 6 o'clock news





Perhaps the same 'allies' that were selling missles to Argentina during the Falklands conflict?


France sided with Britain during the Falkands and gave us information on Argentina military equipment.

Plus, don't recall the French funding the IRA...

[edit on 26-8-2007 by infinite]



posted on Aug, 26 2007 @ 08:12 AM
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Well here we go again!

Another thread hijacked by the were better than u fraternity, Its war , mistakes happen in war, I know it seems like its a more frequent occurance that the U.S. bomb the crap out of their fellow combatants.

Its just more publicised now a days, If only there were more communcation between the allies and a bit more co-operation from the American side offering info for any enquiries...

Could not the ground units have some sort of transponder fitted to them which would not allow any release of weapons by the aircraft??

just a suggestion

regards

Git



posted on Aug, 26 2007 @ 08:15 AM
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funny how people can divide so fast.

the people in the UK are blaming the US. US is saying it's an accident and peps on the board are doing their nanner nanner technique...

"i'm from the UK, you suck"
"i'm fron the states, you suck"

it's your fault...no, it's your fault......and on and on.......
sound like kids on a schoolyard
it's friggin stupid.

i'm thinking accidents happen....



posted on Aug, 26 2007 @ 08:20 AM
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reply to post by infinite
 


It was US citizens funding IRA, not US government, which quite frankly was an absolute disgrace, but, we move forward and best left for another thread.

Britain being turned into "a nanny state".

That is because WE are allowing ourselves to be dictated to.
Again, for another thread.

I honestly do not trust the intentions of some of our European neighbours who we have a lot of "history with".
Whilst disagreeing with a lot of US foreign policy and am continually infuriated with some Americans feeling of superiority or insecurity, I genuinely feel they are well intentioned and honourable people.
They just need to be allowed to grow up a bit

Again, for another thread I think.

Yes, I know about the lack of co-operation the US has provided to previous FF enquiries, see my previous posts on this thread, however, they have stated that they will fully co-operate with this inquiry.
We must trust them to be true to their word, if they do not, then we must take appropriate action.
The investigation will take some time.
Will the US actually fully co-operate, I hope so, but.....



posted on Aug, 26 2007 @ 08:24 AM
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Originally posted by Freeborn
they have stated that they will fully co-operate with this inquiry.


They have?

I have to check this out. I'd be surprised if they sent the pilots over if asked. Very surprised.



posted on Aug, 26 2007 @ 08:28 AM
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Originally posted by infinite
I was unaware that France or Germany was turning the UK into a "nanny state", well...looks like I missed that one on the 6 o'clock news


So you have never heard of any decisions made in Brussels that are ridiculous? Perhaps in the news recently an immigrant was released from prison, many wanted his to be deported back to his mother country. Instead the EU decided he should stay because it may infringe his human rights.


France sided with Britain during the Falkands and gave us information on Argentina military equipment.


Yes thats true- Somehow I can't work out why France would keep their team in Argentina setting up the missles? Even rumoured to have stayed during the war setting up the missles systems? Great allies.




Plus, don't recall the French funding the IRA...


I was aware individuals in America raised money, did the US Governement? Please give me a source.



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