jesus did exist, face it!

reply to post by open mind


Hey OP, I'm doing all your homework for you. The least the mod's could do is render me a litttle applause. :-) I been up all night working on this. I know, I know! One arm is longer than the other from patting myself on the back. :-)

reply to post by janasstar


That is so funny!!!
I had a number of those exact situations- but it seems i am only allowed this luxery when i am asking for something that someone else really needs and it is for a completely unselfish reason
like i worked at salvation army when a lady came in crying that her
mom had died and she never was able to find a funeral dress that fit her
(she was very large and poor as well)
the funeral was in a few hours

we had no dress and we were her last resort
I could not stand to feel the hurt in her( i am a "feeler")
so i took a chance and explained that if she chose to have complete faith
and believe in the Lord , and also in my abilitys to create a miracle
through Him to help her say goodbye to her mother in a beautiful
dress -

I could promise that He would give her what she needed-though it sometimes is not what we want.
Lo and behold -if right as i was saying "amen" at the end of our
prayer
the back door swung open - the bright sun outside made it impossiblr
to see the man who was there, beyond his shape and the dry cleaners bag he was holding out as he said in a loud , deep voice
"did you want this?"
we all froze.......even i was in shock....it was just tooooo fast and
tooo exact
then he peeked over the dress and said
"oh, do you not take donations at this location?"
we all let our breath out....,it was just a donater, a coincidence

UNTIL SHE OPENED THE BAG & INSIDE WAS THE MOST BEAUTIFUL, FANCY, LACY, EXPENSIVE ALL BLACK DRESS IN HER SIZE.....28!
(this is a pretty large, not commen size)
She almost fainted....well , me too.......
but when we looked back to him
surprize surprize he was gone


simple......but a very beautiful memory......
thought i'd share.....sorry so long!
renee

Do I believe that the earth stopped rotating? Yes, and now, so does certain scientists. Please read the following:



NASA & THE BIBLE



Thought this was pretty amazing and interesting!!

For all the scientists out there, and for all the students who have a hard time convincing these people regarding the truth of the Bible, here's something that shows God's awesome creation, and that He is still in control.

Did you know that the space program is busy proving that what has been called "myth" in the Bible is true?

Mr. Harold Hill, President of the Curtis Engine Company in Baltimore, Maryland, and a consultant in the space program, relates the following development.

I think one of the most amazing things that God has done for us today happened recently to our astronauts and space scientists at Green Belt, Maryland.

They were checking out where the positions of the sun, moon, and planets would be 100 years and 1,000 years from now. We have to know this so we won't send up a satellite and have it bump into something later on in its orbits.

We have to lay out the orbits in terms of the life of the satellite and where the planets will be so the whole thing will not bog down.

They ran the computer measurement back and forth over the centuries, and it came to a halt. The computer stopped and put up a red signal, which meant that there was something wrong with either the information fed into it or with the results as compared to the standards.

They called in the service department to check it out, and they said, 'What's wrong?' Well, they found there is a day missing in space in elapsed time.

They scratched their heads and tore their hair out. There was no answer.

Finally a Christian man on the team said, 'You know, one time I was in Sunday School, and they talked about the sun standing still.' While they didn't believe him, they didn't have an answer either, so they said, 'Show us, '

He got a Bible and went to the book of Joshua where they found a pretty ridiculous statement for any one with 'common sense.'

There they found the Lord saying to Joshua,

'Fear them not, I have delivered them into thy hand; there shall not a man of them stand before Thee.'

Joshua was concerned because he was surrounded by the enemy! And if darkness fell, they would overpower them. So Joshua asked the Lord to make the sun stand still! That's right... 'The sun stood still and the moon stayed and lasted not to go down about a whole day!'

(Joshua 10:12-13)

The astronauts and scientists said, There is the missing day! They checked the computers going back into the time it was written and found it was close but not close enoughThe elapsed time that was missing back in Joshua's day was 23 hours and 20 minutes ... not a whole day.

They read the Bible, and there it was about [approximately] a day. These little words in the Bible are important, but they were still in trouble because if you cannot account for 40 minutes, you'll still be in trouble 1000 years from now.

Forty minutes had to be found because it can be multiplied many times over in orbits. As the Christian employee thought about it, he remembered somewhere in the Bible where it said the sun went BACKWARDS.

The scientists told him he was out of his mind, but they got out the Book and read these words in 2 Kings that told of the following story: Hezekiah, on his death! bed, was visited by the prophet Isaiah who told him that he was not going to die. Hezekiah asked for a sign as proof. Isaiah said 'Do you want the sun to go ahead 10 degrees?'

Hezekiah said, 'It is nothing for the sun to go ahead 10 degrees, but let the shadow return backward 10 degrees.' Isaiah spoke to the Lord, and the Lord brought the shadow ten degrees BACKWARD! Ten degrees is exactly 40 minutes!

Twenty-three hours and 20 minutes in Joshua, plus 40 minutes in Second Kings make the missing day in the universe! Isn't it amazing?

References: Joshua 10:8 and 12,13 and 2 Kings 20:9-11.


Well maybe this had nothing to do with the earth stopping it's rotation, but still, it's pretty phenomenal! Right?

Please!

And what was Joshua doing while the sun supposedly stood still?

Slaughtering people whose only crime was they already occupied the land God was giving to the Jews.

(scratches head... hmm... sounds familiar)

I refuse to believe in a God that condones slaughter...

I refuse to believe in a God who choses to favor some and condemns others...

I refuse to believe in a God who would stop the whole planet just so one small group can continue killing...

I refuse to believe in that kind of God.

The God I have experienced is a God of love.

You have no valid links for your claims do you? That means a valid link OUTSIDE of your source.

Probably not.

Originally posted by janasstar
reply to post by janasstar

 

Most people commonly know that the bible itself is an historical document.

The Bible is NOT a historical document... it is an accumulation of writings from a variety of hands and times, some mutually exclusive or contradictory with many different revisions.

If you have any doubts look at the many different versions of the books of the Bible in the Dead Sea scrolls collection.

reply to post by madnessinmysoul

ok, show me the historical evidence to back up the existence of jesus.

Time itself changed. BC / AD. He is real.

I would really like to see ANY reputable evidence showing the bible is an historical document.

Also, lets say Jesus did exist. What does that prove other then a man named Jesus existed.

I have heard of no substantial evidence that he did exist but I'll go out on a limb and give you that he did. Again, so what??

reply to post by jfj123


So what?????
This man called Jesus somehow still has got the attention of the entire
world over 2000 years after his death
We all have heard his whole life story, his words and beliefs,
we have religions built around him, and people fighting & killing in his name
We have a book that is world widely known as "the book"
that we have dedicated the entire 2nd half of it to his teachings and his storys
Heck- the "guy" has even hit hollywood a bunch of times .
What other human that has ever walked this earth gotten this much attention,publicity,followers,
(let alone be called the" son of God ")
for even a tenth of the time (that would be about 200 years????)


O.k.- so if you are right, and he was a nobody
just a guy -
Well, i sure would still listen to him- cuz obviously , he's got something
going for him that no other human ever has.......

I suggest any of you who believe those scant historical sources are accurate read the following thread: An Examination of the "Evidence" for Jesus

Jesus Christ never existed. Outside of the bible and the heads of his followers he is merely a mythical figure with zero evidence to back up his existence. There is no historical evidence, no physical evidence, none whatsoever that Jesus ever lived. Despite the number of historians alive during his time, none of them recorded the events described in the bible. The only place he ever appears to exist is in the bible, which is not a reliable historic source.

So what?????
This man called Jesus somehow still has got the attention of the entire
world over 2000 years after his death
We all have heard his whole life story, his words and beliefs,

First, he doesn't have the whole worlds attention. He has christianities attention

Also, dinosaurs still have got he attention of the entire world 6.5 million years after their deaths. We have heard entire life stories of dinosaurs, how they lived, how they died and how they parented.

we have religions built around him, and people fighting & killing in his name

wow, killing in his name. Well thats something to be proud of. If you don't agree with my I kill you???? WTF

We have a book that is world widely known as "the book"
that we have dedicated the entire 2nd half of it to his teachings and his storys

There are thousands and thousands of books about dinosaurs.

Heck- the "guy" has even hit hollywood a bunch of times .

Jurasik Park I, II, III, and IV in production, etc...

(let alone be called the" son of God ")

Well based on the family tree, nobody. It's a genetics thing.

for even a tenth of the time (that would be about 200 years????)

Stalin, Hitler, THE FATHERS OF OUR COUNTRY, Garth Brooks, etc.

Originally posted by lenisey

O.k.- so if you are right, and he was a nobody
just a guy -
Well, i sure would still listen to him- cuz obviously , he's got something
going for him that no other human ever has.......

anyone that supports faith over rationality is doing no good for the world.
gtfo please

Mind you I am not opposed to religion or anti-Christian, far from it.

If I am opposed to anything it is blind acceptance of what you are told or taught without using the critical faculties that we have been given.

If God had wanted us to be mindless sheep we would not have been given the ability to think for ourselves and to critically examine.

Ignorance is not bliss, its just ignorance. And that holds true to religious matters, scientific matters and secular matters.

reply to post by jfj123

He's got your attention...are you christian?
not me!
and about the dinosaurs....
come on now!........
yes- killing in his name-
and - no -of course i am not proud!.....
that is the main reason i believe that all religions have become corrupted
and their desire to be the ones that are "right" has let evil and greed
for power to be their driving force

back to the dinosaurs.....
i was referring to the fact that they believed in jesus' word being
the teachings of God enough to give him the new testament in the bible.
which was "the book"... God's word...
the fact that you even wrote that there are 1000's of books on dinosaurs proves my statement that there has been just the 1 "book" which is
still being read, studied , taught, and believed 2000 years later
that's the miraculous part...that we have not learned more and written a better "bible"
nor have we disproven any thing and have to re write that part
which, by the way we are always doing concerning dinosaurs....
Funny- my dad was in ww2 with Hitler and he is still alive
i wonder how hitler was 200 yrs ago....
and how come these fathers of our country, etc
have not had religions based after their teachings.........
and honey garth is my age.......do not GO THERE i hope i do not look 200
to anyone...
j/k


the whole thing of it all is why jesus is unique......ALLLLL THESE THINGS I STATED APPLY TO HIM AND THERES ALOT MORE
the animals and people you mentioned even if they had been perfect
candatites for a few different things i said never came close to accomplishing ALL of what He has been remembered for.
I could go on and on.....we changed out time from bc to a.d. marking his birth /death
we named a group of different religions catergorized with his name....
i mean,
i don't care if you believe in him at all
i just am answering what you all were asking.
The fact is we all must make our own educated desisions about who/what we follow /believe
and while i try to help others understand -
if they want
i do not claim to know more than the next guy
we are all equally in the dark about the reality of our spiritual beliefs
and there will never be a way to prove anything, so
i have 100% respect for anyones different beliefs
as well as 100% respect for who is the enemy to my
God's people
For i know that here there must be dark if there is to be light
we all have our place
i am not trying to make anyone be in the wrong place.( for them)
I will follow Jesus's word and i believe in him

BUT DO NOT EVER CLASSIFY ME INTO ANY RELIGION-ESpECIALLY
CATHOLICS AND YES even christains
I have been on a very intimite friendship level with God since i was 2
I never have, never will share my God time with a "church" between us!
I like the way of the buddists but am far from being buddist
i am me

Originally posted by Rytak
I suggest any of you who believe those scant historical sources are accurate read the following thread: An Examination of the "Evidence" for Jesus

Jesus Christ never existed. Outside of the bible and the heads of his followers he is merely a mythical figure with zero evidence to back up his existence. There is no historical evidence, no physical evidence, none whatsoever that Jesus ever lived. Despite the number of historians alive during his time, none of them recorded the events described in the bible. The only place he ever appears to exist is in the bible, which is not a reliable historic source.

Great link, i bookmarked that. Thx.

And for those of you that think he really existed. If you can't bother reading through all of that stuff in the link there and researching it, then you are not on a level playing field with us and theres nothing to debate really.

Almost every point you could ever bring up is listed and explained there.

reply to post by grover

The Bible is NOT a historical document... it is an accumulation of writings from a variety of hands and times, some mutually exclusive or contradictory with many different revisions.....If you have any doubts look at the many different versions of the books of the Bible in the Dead Sea scrolls collection.

The Bible is historical. It tells of the beginning of this age, hints at the one before it and tells us about how one man and his family influenced the world. It was divinely inspiried by God and the original manuscripts have that Word locked in. It cannot be altered. Translations, done by man, have allowed mistakes, some purposeful and some not, to become part of what we read today.

If you study only from a King James version you can see what those words mean in their original language with the aid of a Strong's Concordance, (assuming you don't speak Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek and have access to the manuscripts). If not, you must take man's word for it and Jesus warns us against that. Revisions are very dangerous and can completly change the original intent. It is fine to study them but it's probably wiser to have a solid foundation of scriptural understanding first.

As you say, it is accumulated from a variety of hands and times but that makes it all the more amazing in that the story, the teaching, the prophecy remains true throughout. God's thumbprint is shown in places, one of which is Psalms 22. In it David, 1,000 years before the birth of Christ, wrote of His crucifixion.

sorry the bible is not classified as a historical document.

Just a thought but if he did exsist, then it would pretty much be the same as someone today claiming they were the creators son, right?
It would be hard to believe a normal man, no matter how compassionate or knowledgable to be sent from a greater exsistance, to teach the world.
Maybe Jesus was just an abductee victim?

reply to post by grover

And what was Joshua doing while the sun supposedly stood still?...
Slaughtering people whose only crime was they already occupied the land God was giving to the Jews...(scratches head... hmm... sounds familiar)..
I refuse to believe in a God that condones slaughter...

You equate God with Islam? No one should judge God's actions or question them. Instead of questioning how God could do that it would be better to understand why He did that. Do you believe it was just for the land or perhaps the reason is what was going on in that city. Also, among those named to fight against were people that had mixed with fallen angels. They were an abomination to God. There was reason for what He did.

Joshua 5:14 And He said, "Nay; but as Captain of the host of the Lord am I now come." And Joshua fell on his face to the earth, and did worship, and said unto Him, "What saith my Lord unto His servant?"

That was the Angel of the Lord (Christ before His 1st Advent). He held a sword, not a prayer book and He was there to lead the battle. Was it just to take land God gave to the Hebrews?

I refuse to believe in a God who choses to favor some and condemns others...I refuse to believe in a God who would stop the whole planet just so one small group can continue killing...I refuse to believe in that kind of God.

In answer to those statements you must ask yourself why. Why does He condemn some and not others? Why would He stop the planet to accomplish what He wanted done? You made this statement, "The God I have experienced is a God of love. Would that God do something so completely out of character for no reason?

The Book of Joshua is an example to us of how to reach the promised land. It holds many lessons for us during end times.

reply to post by jfj123

I have heard of no substantial evidence that he did exist but I'll go out on a limb and give you that he did. Again, so what??

So what? So you can be forgiven for your sins and upon repentance have eternal life. Would you give your only son up to be sacrificed for the sins of others? He existed, He exists and He will return. When He does every knee will bow but will it be too late for some? I hope not. He wants all of His children to love Him.

Originally posted by lenisey
[
the whole thing of it all is why jesus is unique......ALLLLL THESE THINGS I STATED APPLY TO HIM AND THERES ALOT MORE
the animals and people you mentioned even if they had been perfect
candatites for a few different things i said never came close to accomplishing ALL of what He has been remembered for.

All those things that make Jesus unique are part of the religious and mythological motifs of the entire eastern Mediterranean basin and the river valleys of Egypt and Mesopotamia. Virgin birth, miracles, dying and resurrected god and many others including the orphan in the bull rushes of Moses; they had all been used interchangeably for thousands of years before Jesus dating back to Zarathustra and beyond.

They are symbols and metaphors and are no more reflect the historical Jesus than the Easter bunny (a pagan fertility symbol) does.

To have faith is admirable to slap blinders on because of it is foolish.