Arrested For Using Wireless Internet

reply to post by RedGolem

not true every single computer that goes through a router has the same ip address from the modem, you have a different ip address to the router like .1 or .2 at the end but no matter what all communication is carried through the modem with the same end ip address. so if someone is doing malicious things from across the street off from your network it wil be traced back to you and i wouldnt be surprised if one day the owner of the modem starts holding some responsibility because he/she didnt secure thier network.

reply to post by RedGolem



I think you are confusing IP addresses with a MAC address. The MAC address is the physical number of your network card. If i can access your router i can view your MAC address and then spoof your MAC address and no one would ever know i had done it.

He broke the law plain and simple. Yes i'm sure many of us have accessed free internet when we are out and about (not me of course, nope never), but he got caught,

This has nothing to do with a police state, it has nothing to do about the person leaving their connection open. He used a service that wasn't his in direct violation of the law.

The real story should be that people need to start securing their connections.

Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984
The real story should be that people need to start securing their connections.

Yep. This guy could have been downloading kiddie porn, trying to hack bank details etc. He may not have done this stuff, but what he was doing was stealing the bandwidth. The network he accessed may have been publicly accessible, but it was NOT a public network (if you see what I mean)

The current way that WI-Fi stuff is packaged means it comes out of the box totally insecure. That means that most people just plug it in and run with it without too much thought, and that IS the real story.

Over here in the UK there have been peadophiles who have been set free by courts because they claim they did not have "exclusive use of the computer" the stuff was found on. Leaving a Wi-Fi connection wide open is an invitation for such perverts to wander round with a laptop, and dump the consequences onto someone else.

Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984

The real story should be that people need to start securing their connections.

agreed. make sure your router is WPAII capable and get on it....so many people hook their router up and blow by all the security processes.
it is very easy to do and you really don't need to be all tech savvy. the instructions with the router will walk you through it....turn off your ssid broadcast and set the WPA and you should be pretty well good to go.

This is very simple really, its theft of a service.
It makes no difference if that service is electricity, gas, cable or the internet.

I agree that it is stealing no matter how its portrayed. You didn't pay for it and your using the service. Also some others have stated that the security setup is too complex for non-tech savvy people. Boondock78 is absolutely correct there, read the damn manual that comes with it, or god forbid, call the vendor of the product if your really stuck. There's no excuse here other than laziness. If your too stupid to secure it then you shouldn't use a PC in the first place.

brill

Originally posted by brill
read the damn manual that comes with it, or god forbid, call the vendor of the product if your really stuck. There's no excuse here other than laziness.
brill

no doubt...it only takes about 5 minutes to set the whole network up.
when i first had a network at my old place, i had a d link and it didn't say how to encrypt so i called and the dude walked me through it.

when i moved i got a new linksys so i could use WPAII. it's right in the step by step guide...they instructions are VERY easy...

i can tell you here..type in the router IP to get to your main page.
type in password
go to security
enable WPAII
type password
turn off ssid broadcast
save
done

there you go..network is secure.....ssid broadcast won't so much for someone with haxors skills but for regular joes, when they scan available networks, if you are not broadcasting, it don't show up.....it's worth it.

Originally posted by neformore

The current way that WI-Fi stuff is packaged means it comes out of the box totally insecure. That means that most people just plug it in and run with it without too much thought, and that IS the real story.

Oh don't get me started on that. Whenever i install routers they are set to a default password and unless you purposely change it then anyone with a manufacturer password list can use it.

Routers need to start coming with WPA and MAC address filtering turned on. They also need to start setting them so that when you first start it up, you have to pick a password.

Paedophiles or people using the networks for illegally accessing systems they shouldn't can easily get away with their crimes because manufacturers won't implement some simple settings as standard.

It isn't just home users either, i see offices where simple settings aren't used.

I had one of the older linksys hubs, which required a key be input into the hub and the PC. I never could get the PC to connect with the hub after I entered my encryption. The final solution for me was to return it for one that was not wireless...

Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984
Routers need to start coming with WPA and MAC address filtering turned on. They also need to start setting them so that when you first start it up, you have to pick a password.

Put this into perspective though. Your a vendor, you have a support call line and limited staff perhaps even a limited budget. If you impose auto-security you would most likely be inundated with calls. Vendors are doing whats expected here by supplying a product AND supplying the guide on how to configure it. Its up to you as the purchaser to take a few minutes and read the guide as so many fail to do. I agree with you that perhaps a better implementation needs to exist (smart wizard maybe) but the fact remains. Hell vendors would have to setup timezones for people buying DVD players if we had to spoonfeed all the imbeciles out there. The details are there, you (the general public) just have to read it.

brill

reply to post by brill


Yes i can understand the problems some vendors might have with people who refuse to read a manual. You are correct that maybe a smart wizard setup might be the correct choice, although I have a feeling that people would just keep clicking the "Next" button to get through it.

As a network engineer i can say that the computer world would be a lot more secure if they did do something like this. Of course the hardcore hackers will always find ways around things, it's fun doing that, but it would stop a good deal of the average muppets with a laptop abusing wireless connections.

EDIT

Oh i forgot to say that i think this person should be prosecuted as an example. Maybe if the government spammed the media with a campaign of how your connection could be used and gave case examples people would pay more attention. Showing someone who got falsly accused of downloading child pornography would maybe grab some peoples attention.

[edit on 24-8-2007 by ImaginaryReality1984]

reply to post by RedGolem


Sorry Red you are wrong here...

Don't belive me (or others that have stated the same thing)?

Try going here whatismyip.com... and see what IP it sees, it's not going to be the private IP that you use on the LAN, it's going to be the public IP on the WAN that is logged by web sites (yes this one included), that the Feds are going to come after...

But belive what you want...this guy stole something that wasn't his...justice was served in this case...

they already have smart wizzards no?
put the disc in, follow the steps...it asks you do you want to secure it now or later....if people just keep clicking yes or next, nothing the vendor can really do about that..

i honestly don't see how it could get any easier...it is already pretty simple to secure

This is a legal grey area.

Wi-Fi is broadcast. It is not a point-to-point communication. Data is sent out just like a radio station broadcasts data, for anyone and everyone to pick up and use (if the usage of this data is not against the law).

Now, lots of journalists use words like "stealing wireless" or "trespassing". But who is a computer trespasser? A computer trespasser is defined as a person who accesses a protected computer or computer network without authorization. That kind of "trespasser" comes under Computer Misuse Act 1990, an Act to make provision for securing computer material against unauthorised access or modification; and for connected purposes.
So, if I connect via Wi-Fi and there is no Login windows with a picture ofkeys on them, asking me for username and password I can fairly say I'm authorised to use it.

The second is stealing of bandwidth.

The man arrested in a street in west London is being accused of breaching the law by taking internet service without permission.

Who's permission? ISP's or private owner of wireless network.

The Communications Act 2003 says a "person who (a) dishonestly obtains an electronic communications service, and (b) does so with intent to avoid payment of a charge applicable to the provision of that service, is guilty of an offence".

ISP can't touch him, because he did not sign their T&C. He is also not stealing from them because he has been accessing the internet via private network and this network do not provide payable service. (the service is already payed by the owner of this network).

Permission from the owner of private wireless network is also not necessary because he did not properly secure it and he left it wide open. The "trespasser" could argue he "gained peaceful entry".

IMHO, with a good lawyer, he could beat that case easilly.


[edit on 24-8-2007 by yanchek]

Originally posted by RedGolem
reply to post by Jedi_Master

 

Jedi
when a person gains access to an unsecured Internet location it is not the ip address of the person who pays for the connection that they are using, they are using the ip address of the computer they are logging on with. So the person who is taking any illegal action will be tracked by his ip address, and will not bring harm to the person who is paying for the connection.

No, the IP address is on the cable modem or equivalent. This is the IP address that will be seen by the feds.

The IP addresses on the computers on the wireless side are hidden to the outside world.

They consider it as a crime because the internet provider company loses a customer, thus money. Greedyness.

[edit on 24-8-2007 by Atlantix]

Taking something that isn't yours is stealing pure and simple.

The man in question didn't pay for the service and by using it he stole from the person who did pay. It's the same as if someone stole a CD out of your car you left unlocked. Is it a valid excuse to then say well it's not my fault the car was unlocked. The man in question stole period.

Originally posted by gallopinghordes
The man in question didn't pay for the service and by using it he stole from the person who did pay. It's the same as if someone stole a CD out of your car you left unlocked. Is it a valid excuse to then say well it's not my fault the car was unlocked. The man in question stole period.

CD is a material thing not a service.

So by your definition if you went to a bar and drank a half of bottle of beer, pay for it, and then went home and another guy or bartender drank the other half that would be theft?

Originally posted by yanchek
This is a legal grey area.

No i'm afraid it isn't a legal grey area.

If i leave my front door unlocked does this mean i am giving someone the right to enter? Nope i'm afraid not.

He broke the law and you are using symantics to get around it, no matter which lawyer he gets i'm willing to bet he'll be found guilty. He used someone elses bandwidth and this is stealing.

It's illegal plain and simple, no question. It's a very minor crime in my view, but it is illegal.

Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984
If i leave my front door unlocked does this mean i am giving someone the right to enter? Nope i'm afraid not.

Unlocked doors and access to unsecure networks are not the same thing. You are mixing apples and oranges. The bailiffs for example can legally enter your house or apartment if you leave your door unlocked or windows open.

He broke the law and you are using symantics to get around it...

But using semantics is what lawyers do. Every law is virtualy open for different kind of interpretations. All that is necessary to win this case is a simpathetic or openminded judge or jury.