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Originally posted by ubermunche
Ste I'm not against these initiatives at all but to echo more serotonin we can have all the laws and pass new ones but if some judges mindset is to go easy on them because they're disadvantaged we don't move on.
Originally posted by Ste2652
The question you need to ask, then, is how do you get judges to toughen up sentences? It throws up a host of issues, including how independent our supposedly independent judiciary really is if the government can start interfering with sentencing. I know where you're coming from on this one... some of the sentences we've discussed in previous threads seem mad when compared with the crime.
Originally posted by surrender_dorothy
reply to post by nixie_nox
violent crime has been increasing fairly steeply over the last five or six years.
I doubt the war has had anything to do with it.
I thought I made my point in my second post on the first page.
Maybe you missed the point or I didn't make it clear enough. The problem lies in inequality. The divide. The rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer
Drugs of all sorts have become commonplace in the UK. This is a major problem. But I think its naive to expect people to live without drugs when life is so unbearable without them. The rich take drugs because they have no worries and highly paid doctors in case something goes wrong. The poor take drugs because they don't want to think about their worries and don't care if something goes wrong.
Everything is a struggle. But for the the youth this is becoming a joke. They look at their elders struggle and they ask what is it all for? A three bedroom box with a TV? They realise it's a waste of time and they turn to drugs.
This has created a massive market for drug dealing. As we all know selling drugs is illegal and therefore exists as an underworld. An underworld not accepted by society but a product of it. I can't be bothered to go into the whole structure and hierarchy of drug dealing but anybody that has a basic idea of how it works will realise that nearly everybody is involved.
The underworld doesn't require a skill. Everyone knows that work for unskilled people, somewhat due to a non-existant immigration control but not solely, is evaporating in the UK. The poor get sent to schools that fail their students. So what happens to the unskilled? How are all the unskilled going to afford that three bedroom box and TV?
Hell, this is all just my opinion. I happen to be part of the drug abusing, unskilled white trash that fuels this underworld. Hence my negative view of the future.
Originally posted by The Walking Fox
The old saying is that an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. So what are you Brits doing to prevent? From my understanding (flawed though it probably is) this "yob culture" you're talking about seems to be a case of parents sitting on their asses and neighbors going "not my problem."
Originally posted by The Walking Fox
Don't give me that "gub'mint is the debbil" nonsense, please. All parents can swat their kids across the butt, deny them dinner, ground them to their rooms, whatever. If a social worker chooses to get involved, that's a headache sure - but a hassle and headache is no reason to let your kids behave like a troupe of angry chimpanzees. Blaming the government or, as some here are doing, "liberals" is just a game of passing the blame.
Originally posted by ubermunche
What poor are we talking about. The poor who still get up and go out to earn their money and contribute to society or is it, as I suspect, the poor who’s whole ethos has been to opt out, opt out of work, responsibility, deceny, respect for others and themselves. They might take drugs to forget but it’s arguable whether the drugs brought them to that point in the first place. But let’s blame it all on society boo hoo feel sorry for me while I terrorise my neighbourhood. BS
And how long will the ‘yoof’ think it’s a joke for when all those stupid poor working people they despise copy their example and down tools and there’s no one to serve their McDonalds up, or process their dole cheques, or stock the shelves in the supermarket, or stitch their new trainers, or collect the rubbish, or run the trains/buses etc etc. The joke stops being funny when it starts affecting you doesn’t it. Just self serving garbage for the weak, lazy and irresponsible.
So if we legalised drugs, all these Burberry wearing, bling and gun toting chavs and gansta’s hanging on the street corners would put on suits, get up early and go to work for the local (now legitimate) drug overlord would they and become respectable citizens. Or would they just find some other niche to corner which meant not having to buy into social responsibility where they could continue to be a blight instead.
as you’ve already pointed out, the youth of today (supposedly) reject the idea of working for a living, so what’s the point if laying on a better education system if they’re not going to use it to buy their 3 bed box houses.
Believe me that comment will come back to bite you on the a**e one day if everyone ends up as negative and defeatist as you seem to be..
Originally posted by nixie_nox
It was just a thought. Just trying to help you folks out. You guys are ruining my vision of your sophisticated and and hospitable society.
I think you'll find, as it is in my experience, both. I'm an unskilled factory operative and many, not all, of my colleagues take drugs. They have no ambition and have already resigned themselves to a life of laboour and struggle. Perhaps it's time that the unskilled started getting a decent wage. I''m no communist but I think that anybody who plays their part in society ought to be treated equally. There it is. My point. Equality.
Down tools. What a lovely term. Sure it will affect the poor mostly but it will also affect the rich. It will create havoc in society and maybe that's just whats needed to bring attention to this lack of equality. I for one, and I'm probably alone on this, would be happy to sacrifice even my life if I truly thought some good might come of it. Most of humanity does not feel the same way and this is what creates the divide. Bill Gates and some other rich ^£%*&$# could probably single handedly feed and educate an entire third world nation. But they don't.
Seems like I'm not the only negative nelly in this thread. I think that sensible leglisation of drugs would eradicate a large section of the criminal underworld. It would create more jobs and probably boost the economy. I'm also for legalisation of prostition, but that sort of forward thinking should probably be left for another time.
Perhaps you are unable to share my vision of a utopia. A world without divide. A world where one guy might be designing complex computer programs or components for energy efficient engines but he earns about the same as the person who sells him his milk in the mornings. In that world, I believe, the cynicism that is now ingraved in the mindset of the youth will be extinct. You will know then that every moment you are at work you are being appreciated. Because without the lower echelons of society, our society would not be so great. But it's the people in the upper echelons who are being rewarded. This is inequality. This is my point.