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US rethinks Democracy in Iraq

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posted on Aug, 22 2007 @ 04:47 PM
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Didnt we already have this under Saddams Reign?
Looks like we're coming full circle in Iraq


BAGHDAD, Iraq (CNN) -- Nightmarish political realities in Baghdad are prompting American officials to curb their vision for democracy in Iraq. Instead, the officials now say they are willing to settle for a government that functions and can bring security.


Source




posted on Aug, 22 2007 @ 04:55 PM
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Your right there, if they cannot accept the iraqis discussion to elect an iranian and syrian friend, whats democracy and what are they bringing to the country.

[edit on 8/22/2007 by andy1033]



posted on Aug, 22 2007 @ 05:11 PM
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They're spoiled to death, the U.S. has been babysitting them over there for so long that you couldn't yank the pacifiers out of their mouths with a tank. You can't help a government that won't help themselves, they're more worried about coffee breaks and getting in their vacation time than they are in figuring out how to get their country under control. I'm glad to see the U.S. is lessening it's expectations with those people, maybe they'll get the Hell out of there soon.



posted on Aug, 22 2007 @ 05:18 PM
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reply to post by seeingevil
 


Lol, yea I agree to that. Maybe this will also help them to get off their butts and be able to handle security themselves.
Whats the difference between an Iraqi National Guardsman and one of the enemies there? The Iraqi Police/NG regularly get their butts kicked by the insurgent fighters. Is this because they arent completely dedicated to the cause or what? Thats hard to say because I'm not there and I dont get shot at and have to dodge IED's on a daily bases



posted on Aug, 22 2007 @ 07:14 PM
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I cant believe the Anti_US or Anti-Bush members have'nt jumped all over this by now.. Some people live for the day that the US admits their wrong about anything and I figured this would be cause for throwing a party


Anyway, what I'm really wondering about this is exactly what form of Govt would be acceptable to the US.
Iraq is the kind of country that has leaders that are born out of violence and I'm beginning to think that only a tight fisted ruler like Saddam would be capable of controlling things in Iraq.
If I recall correctly, when the British set Iraq up with a royal leader, it wasnt to long after they left that they killed this 20 year old puppet, which created a vacuum that didnt take long at all for a brutal leader to step in and take control.


[edit on 8/22/2007 by Kr0n0s]



posted on Aug, 22 2007 @ 08:23 PM
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Nightmarish political realities in Baghdad are prompting American officials to curb their vision for democracy in Iraq. Instead, the officials now say they are willing to settle for a government that functions and can bring security.


This, is the closest I think we are going to get, in terms of the administration publically admitting '' ok, we shouldnt of removed Saddam ''

Forgive me, but wasnt a functioning and secure government in power before we went in guns blazing?

Saddam was providing medical facilites, educational facilities, he was keepnig the powerstruggle against Iran front line centre, thus keeping the mullahs from gaining superiority. He kept security within baghdad and surrounds stable, by bein heavy handed against sectarian violence.



The government is unable to supply regular electricity and at times running water in the capital. The health care system is run by one Iranian-backed militia and the national police are dominated by another. Death squads terrorize Sunni neighborhoods.

Sectarian cleansing is pushing people into segregated enclaves, protected by Shiite or U.S.-backed Sunni militias, and spurring the flight of thousands to neighboring countries.


boy o boy... Weve really stuffed up here.
I think its safe to say, we've really done something never before seen in our existence.
We effectivley ruined a nation, destroyed Iraqi unity and replaced it with an open battlefield, fully equipped with fodder.

there's nothing cheaper in Iraq, than a life.
We deserve everything thrown at us for this hell we have enforced.



posted on Aug, 22 2007 @ 08:39 PM
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reply to post by Agit8dChop
 


Don't even go there Agit8, remember we liberated them from Saddam and its evilness.

Now we need to liberate them from killing each others, but hey isn't that what we liberated them from to Begin with.

I am getting dizzy now.



posted on Aug, 22 2007 @ 09:01 PM
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ohh, its just so much fun pointing out the blatant obvious to people who are blatantly ignorant!


America's in a big blackhole at the moment.

We want to liberate them from misery, yet arent prepared to leave.
We want to bring them security, yet continue bomb'n, kill'n and detain'n.
We want the middle east to just get along with us and Israel, yet we both keep on committing crimes against anyone who speaks against us.

Id really really like to post up one of those Bush moments
'' We will stay until the jobs done ''
'' We will not abandon the Iraqi's ''
'' We are not occupying you, we are liberating you ''

And now we've just said...

''Instead, the officials now say they are willing to settle for a government that functions and can bring security.''

Did you see the magic word there
'' settle ''

We've accepted the reality, and are going to accept the bare minimum.
Because we all know, that this government is nothing more than a popular resistant movement, aided by the enemy, using ddeath squads and insurgents to slowly push out the sunni's.

Can we please have a definition of security?
Because I fear they are going to find a few remote examples, paint it as success, then bail.

And all that will be left, is a crying mother and child, living in squaller while the men around them murder each other, rape the women, and claim Iraq as their own religous nation.

Well done Bush & Cheney..... well done!



posted on Aug, 22 2007 @ 09:02 PM
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One word will sum up the Iraq War for generations to come.



"....Oops."



posted on Aug, 22 2007 @ 09:02 PM
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reply to post by Agit8dChop
 


Agitated; I knew if I hung around here long enough that we would eventually agree on something

This may seem like nothing to some people but in reality this is a major
defeat for US policy and an ever bigger defeat for Bush and Co.



Forgive me, but wasnt a functioning and secure government in power before we went in guns blazing?


That was the point I made with the very first sentence of my original post.
Despite being a ruthless dictator that killed people at will and even used Chemical Agents on his own people in the North and South.
But we already knew all of this when we were supporting him during the 10 year Iran/Iraq. He didnt know it then but the day he signed the cease fire agreement with Iran is the day his usefulness to the US ran out.

Like any other dictator in the world, his paranoia ran rampant and all crimes in Iraq were dealt with very harshly, sure the Iraqi people were afraid of him and some couldnt wait for his reign to end. At least the country provided the people with their most basic needs, electricity, water and security.
Most criminals knew that if they were caught, sometimes committing even the most basic crimes, they could face the gallows.
This is a huge disaster and what was accomplished an entire Nation destroyed, thousands of innocent people dead?

The country is in such a state of instability and disrepair that, even after they get the leadership stabilized, it will take many years for the country's economic situation to stabilize.
The physical and mental scars will take even longer to heal, if they ever do at all, it could take several generations.
Think about the 7 year old whose father and uncles were killed, his home was destroyed and his mother forced into prostitution or to take other extreme measures, just to feed her and her kids.
This 7 year old will remember this forever but in another 7 or so years, hes likely to become an insurgent.
He'll marry and have a child of his own to whom he will pass down his anger and hatred to, the anger will be passed on from generation to generation and will take years to subside.

[edit on 8/22/2007 by Kr0n0s]



posted on Aug, 22 2007 @ 10:46 PM
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Originally posted by Kr0n0s
He didnt know it then but the day he signed the cease fire agreement with Iran is the day his usefulness to the US ran out.


couldnt have said it better myself.


same deal with the taliban and the soviets.. ? i'd say yes.



posted on Aug, 23 2007 @ 02:17 AM
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Some think it's a major defeat for Bush and U.S. policy, I disagree. In reality this is only indicative of it that the Iraqi people were handed liberation and democracy on a silver platter, all for nothing.

Nobody over there gives a flying hoot about having order and constructive government, they care nothing about working together toward any kind of peace or common goals. They just divide into groups of wild mange infested desert dogs and spend all their time fighting and conspiring against each other.

America to Iraq:
You're free! Liberated! We'll help you establish a goverment and democracy! Long live the Iraqi people!

Iraqi People's response:
Whoohoo!! Now we can all act like uncaged zoo animals and set modern civilization back a thousand years! We can run around all day shooting and beheading one another, slapping each other with shoes and fighting about who wears the prettiest diaper on their head! Thank you America!! Our chaos and mindless insanity will reign forever now in the name of Allah! We will now ravage our land fighting one another forever!! Let us all dance in the street now with our automatic weapons held high, smiles on our faces and each others' blood on our hands! Whoohoo!! Now give us someone to kill! Must kill! Need... more... blood!! Praise Allah!!

If Iraqi's as a whole were actually better off under the rule of a genocidal dictator, the only thing that proves is that the people there are such mindless animals that they can't be tamed and do actually need to be ruled by lethal force by whoever has the most guns to control them.



posted on Aug, 23 2007 @ 02:56 AM
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reply to post by seeingevil
 



Iraqi People's response:
Whoohoo!! Now we can all act like uncaged zoo animals and set modern civilization back a thousand years! We can run around all day shooting and beheading one another, slapping each other with shoes and fighting about who wears the prettiest diaper on their head! Thank you America!! Our chaos and mindless insanity will reign forever now in the name of Allah! We will now ravage our land fighting one another forever!! Let us all dance in the street now with our automatic weapons held high, smiles on our faces and each others' blood on our hands! Whoohoo!! Now give us someone to kill! Must kill! Need... more... blood!! Praise Allah!!


LMAO, that was extremely funny and not to damn far from the truth.
You know, the truth of the matter is, after about a year of Iraq being invaded I was thinking almost the same thing.
I posted my grievances with my own country and the mistakes I believe they made, so now its time to speak my mind about these people.
I was wondering why these people refuse to allow their country to stabilize.
I know some people really do think that it is the US's fault that they have 1 hour of power per day or no clean water but in reality it is because of
sabotage. They refuse to allow the necessary repairs to be made and once they are made they keep it from being maintained.
They kidnap the employees of the power and water companies, execute them and dump their bodies on the side of the road with a note pined to them that says, this is what happens to collaborators or w/e
I dont get it, they are not collaborating they are working, they are trying to help Iraq get back up to speed.
Im not going to make a long drawn out post to support my opinion because these are facts and if you want links to support them, then look them up yourself, you can use google as well as i can.
Initially, US troops were pulling out, there was only a 100k force left that supplied security and training to the Iraqi Security Forces.
Instead of attacking each other, attacking the elected Government officials and attacking US forces, would it have been so bad to let the officials do their jobs, let the Security Forces get trained and let Iraqs infrastructure to stabilize?
Let this stuff happen and allied forces would've had a lot less of a presence there than they do now, maybe even moving most of them out of the main cities and place them where I believe theyre needed even more, which is
patrolling and shutting down the borders with the other problem nations that border Iraq.
Guess well never know though.



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