Chávez deal to aid low-income Londoners

Some people don't really understand, Chavez isn't giving out bus passes to poor people in London..

He has done a deal where London gets 20% off in return for some people going over to help plan their infrastructure. That 20% off is being used by London to give poor people a discount when they use the oyster card (Something already in use).

okay, maybe it wasn't right for me to tell a joke

[[delete please mods]]

[edit on 23-8-2007 by infinite]

Hmm, first page of a Google image search produces a farmer with a car and a tractor:

Originally posted by intrepid
Hmm, first page of a Google image search produces a farmer with a car and a tractor:

Are you claiming like some other moderators that I am lying about Cuba?.....

I gave an article about what has happened to some of the farmers who still had tractors....

i find it ironic that someone living somewhere else around the world and has never visited Cuba would try to imply I am lying....

I guess that farmer and anyone who might work for the regime and be Communist are all going to use the 53,000 barrels of oil each day....when most Cubans do not own a car, and most farmers do not have tractors....


[edit on 23-8-2007 by Muaddib]

Anyways...

Here are some of the reasons why Chavez is doing this.

Venezuela does not escape to the electoral hurricane that shakes the region. Chavez adversaries doubt that he is willing to turn in his power by an electoral way and they condition their participation in the elections to fair game, specially, to the compliance of Constitutional provisions that govern suffrage. The final Report of the Electoral Observation Mission of the European Union, submitted this week by the European Deputy Silva Peneda, has oxygenated the environment. It confirms the preliminary report dated December 6, 2005, backed by the European Parliament and the Spanish Parliament, denounced by Chavez as a maneuver from Washington to destabilize his regime. (Venezuela Today, December 14 and 19, 2005).

As always Chavez blames the United States for what other countries decide for themselves...

Anyways, continuing to read that link you can read.

In March 5 past Hello President, Chavez stated once again that an abstention maneuver was on, godfathered by the US. He warned that if the Opposition had no candidates, he will propose a Constitutional reform in order to stay until the year 2031. Only a few doubt that Chavez´ purpose is to retain power indefinitely, but it calls to attention his concern about being a sole candidate.

Chavez wants to stay in power for as long or longer than castro has been in power, and he needs the world to believe he is a good man, just like castro has done...

Going down a bit more on that link, which I will give the url at the end.

The followers of an active presence in the electoral campaign point out that the candidates would be accepted as valid spokespersons of the opposition and could denounce in important scenarios of the international community, issues such as autocracy, militarism, the use of oil to export the revolution, the strategic alliance with Iran, the violation of human rights, the politicization of the judicial system, restrictions to means of communications, harassment to the opposition, specially to journalists, the severe penalization of the so called opinion crimes, and in general, the democratic deficit within the process that will end up in the presidential election. As back up elements, they count with the reports from the Human Rights Interamerican Commission, Amnesty International, Human Rights, Journalists without Frontiers, SIP, and all the group of institutions and personalities of high international qualification that coincide that in spite of the government’s attempts to cover its acts with legality, Venezuela still lacks a true Rule of Law.

www.venezuelatoday.org...

Originally posted by Muaddib
i find it ironic that someone living somewhere else around the world and has never visited Cuba would try to imply I am lying....

That's a HUGE assuption, Cuba is a major tourist destination from Canada. You just happen to be right though, I haven't been to Cuba, my sister has though.

BTW, who said anything about lying? Sheesh.

Oh and btw Intrepid...if you do a search of "flying witch" you will even get a video showing what appears to be a witch flying with a broom...

i guess you believe that too huh?....

Originally posted by Muaddib
Oh and btw Intrepid...if you do a search of "flying witch" you will even get a video showing what appears to be a witch flying with a broom...

i guess you believe that too huh?....

Lame Muaddib. I guess you'll next tell me that Cuba doesn't really exist, just like said witch.

Originally posted by intrepid
That's a HUGE assuption, Cuba is a major tourist destination from Canada. You just happen to be right though, I haven't been to Cuba, my sister has though.

BTW, who said anything about lying? Sheesh.

And could you tell us what you were trying to imply by posting that photo?....

I guess your "sister" went around the real poor barrios and visited the farms in Cuba or the work camps in Cuba where "children" gather food and other products without tractors.....

[edit on 23-8-2007 by Muaddib]

Originally posted by Muaddib

Originally posted by Souljah

Who said he isn't?

You?

Perhaps you need to re-read what I said...

How are 53,000 barrels of oil a day helping regular Cubans when most regular Cubans do not have cars, or trucks?.....

Those shipments help fidel castro, he probably sells them to other countries and keeps the money for himself....

BTW, farmers in Cuba don't have tractors either... the Cuban government owns whatever tractors there might be left in Cuba.

Oh and here, in case you start claiming I am making it up.

[edit on 23-8-2007 by Muaddib]

Tell me why most regular Cubans do not have cars.

Probably you want to blame their directorship and communism.

But why not US embargo? The direct economic impact is estimated at $ 86 billion or $ 10000 per person. Every Cuban can get a car with the money.

As for Castro, according to some stories I read, unlike Kim, his personalities is far better than Mrs. Bush. He won't keep the money for just himself I think.

Originally posted by darkhero
Tell me why most regular Cubans do not have cars.

Probably you want to blame their directorship and communism.

But why not US embargo? The direct economic impact is estimated at $ 86 billion or $ 10000 per person. Every Cuban can get a car with the money.

As for Castro, according to some stories I read, unlike Kim, his personalities is far better than Mrs. Bush. He won't keep the money for just himself I think.

We have several other threads dealing with Cuba, and the situation there...and yes I was born and raised in Cuba and still have family there and can tell you the situation in Cuba is because of fidel castro...he was the one who made all the changes right after he took office.....so yes, he is keeping that money for himself and to pay his stooges...

castro's personality better than president Bush....

I know many in the left around here want to think differently....

[edit on 23-8-2007 by Muaddib]

I was under the assumption the oil is used for power in Cuba seeing as they will never get any coal from one of the largest and closest sources on Earth (USA). If I am wrong please correct me.

Perhaps if USA would lift their embargo and sanctions the Cuban people would not be in such a pickle?

We give Saudi Arabia a chance, we gave China a chance. We have started giving Libya a chance too. Why oh why do you feel Cuba does not deserve a chance?

In any case, this soudns like business as usual in London and Venezuela. People are still free to do business as far as I know. And if it benefits the proles, all the better eh?

Originally posted by intrepid
Lame Muaddib. I guess you'll next tell me that Cuba doesn't really exist, just like said witch.

Naa, what is lame is "posting a photo about who knows who that is" as a response to my statement and the link I gave.

It's a gesture of friendship and that is all. He did not kill anybody for stupid reasons like Saudi Arabia does, and he is not a dictator like the king of Saudi Arabia
Imagine a world where every country sends to other countries free stuff

Originally posted by DYepes
I was under the assumption the oil is used for power in Cuba seeing as they will never get any coal from one of the largest and closest sources on Earth (USA). If I am wrong please correct me.

When i was young i remember large quantities of ashes falling once in a while in havana, although i don't know exactly what was used to power the powerplants.

Also in Cuba electricity is rationed, and we only have electricity for a little while each day. In Cuba most houses are not fitted with gas stoves to warm water, people warm water in stoves outside which oftentimes use wood.

Here is the latest powerplant that was built in Cuba.

Electric plant to generate power from wood splinters

HAVANA, Cuba, October (Ariel Delgado Covarrubias, UPECI / www.cubanet.org) - Authorities have announced that they will start construction early next year on a power plant that will generate electricity from wood splinters in the Isle of Youth, south of Havana province, according to a report published in the government daily Juventud Rebelde.

www.cubanet.org...

Originally posted by pai mei
It's a gesture of friendship and that is all. He did not kill anybody for stupid reasons like Saudi Arabia does, and he is not a dictator like the king of Saudi Arabia
Imagine a world where every country sends to other countries free stuff

Meh...I think at least one or two members already pointed out that Chavez is not giving this for free...

Second, yes he is a real dictator... Dictators don't give the go ahead to strategic plans to shoot civilians in the headfor protesting peacefully. chavez did in 2002...

[edit on 23-8-2007 by Muaddib]

Who says he did ?
Watch this movie , the CIA was shooting civilians in the head :

The Revolution Will Not Be Televised

You should be learning spanish and watching what Chavez himself has said from his own mouth instead of relying on a "westernized bastardized version of the events to blame "THE CIA"....

[edit on 23-8-2007 by Muaddib]

Originally posted by Souljah
but why can't some people just accept this FREE deal as it is? A gift. But of course not - from the paws of evil socialists only poison comes out, right?

But it is not Free when he attaches strings to the deal/agreement is it?

I just love it when fools go out and dangle a carrot or two in front of people to get them as friends knowing all the while they have an agenda to push on them. In this case it would be communism and to that I and most others wouold say Thanks but No Thanks

i don't want to derail more the thread about Cuba in specific, but here is some more information on powerplants from 2005.

The most interesting part is.

In August, Cuba purchased 265 diesel-powered power plants worth over $350 million from South Korea and Germany destined to generate electricity for key strategic economic and military installations on the island. This indicates a major shift in the electric power generation strategy and an acknowledgment of the deteriorating and obsolete electric infrastructure of Cuba.
..............
-Since these power plants will not be used to supply energy to the population at large, the common Cuban citizen would have to continue to suffer the dreaded apagones (shortages of electric power).

ctp.iccas.miami.edu...

Maybe we should get back to Chavez and his reasons for doing this deal with London.

[edit on 23-8-2007 by Muaddib]