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posted on Aug, 22 2007 @ 04:26 PM

Originally posted by MrPenny
Not true. I personally judged 95% of them as hoaxes at my initial contact. No hard work, or digging, no butt-loads of research.
I find most of them so transparent its boring.
How's that for scary?

Here's what's more scary... throwing around a figure of 95% without any supporting data. Please, for the sake of providing some type of evidence to support your claim - show me a list of the hoaxes you initially judged with the 95% success rate.

For every twenty hoaxes you judge nineteen of them as being so, straight up upon the first read. Isn't it great to make statements without proof?

Have you heard of statistical errors called 'false positives' and 'false negatives'? Now, you've made the claim that you have a 95% success rate for spotting 'true positives', but can you supply me with your data to show me how often your judgements have been false? Quoting 95% without presenting your error margin for the 'false' judgements is rather misleading.

posted on Aug, 22 2007 @ 04:30 PM
reply to post by MrPenny

Well Mr. Penny. You are amazing. Truely a gem among pebbles. But it doesn't change the fact that you convince no-one with a "feeling" that it is a hoax. We can't move forward because you have an un-equaled knack for seeing a hoax in the first three sentences. Do we just stop any sort of research because you have a hunch? No. So just saying "I think it's a hoax..." won't fly until you have "because of this fact and that fact." brought to the forfront and investigated. So yes! Go with your hunches! But until it's proven a hoax with more than a feeling from any random member, don't say it is. Say you feel it is. And then keep reading. Maybe someone will do the work your instinct saves you from.

My $.02


posted on Aug, 22 2007 @ 04:31 PM
I definately agree that in posting everyone is taking "the chance" of being bombarded. I ran up on this place by chance and when i made my first post i was slammed by one member. He kept saying i knew what it is and what it was and so on. Other members said they was afraid to post, but, they also had the same markings and was glad i did. Well i kindly said "no" to the way the thread was going and left it.
It does us all more good then foul to let the poster have a chance at the questions and the speculations. Although I could never find my picture, it did not mean hoax and I am glad this places owner stepped up to be honest. I felt embarressed and it was not called for at all.

So to the original OP, please come back and take another chance at explaining it. If not, remember that some of us are listening. Asking and still wondering. Deny ignorance and the ignorant.

posted on Aug, 22 2007 @ 04:51 PM
Thank you Springer, and i hope this applies EQUALLY TO ALL POSTERS NO MATTER WHO YOU ARE.

Because some old posters can lay it on pretty thick, they can be downright insulting and people take it for fear they will be kicked out.

Good news!

Guess who wont be taking it anymore!

posted on Aug, 22 2007 @ 04:52 PM
I agree with all the posts before but this place being "above the top secret" I think there are things that should be looked at.
Many/every/(every other) post in here is against the government and yet there is this huge fear off the powerfull topic off marihuana. Like my avatar. It used to be the world famous picture of Jimi Hendrix and then one of the OP´s said it was too much because it showed drugparaphenilia. And now Im allowed to use avatar with a man smoking the thing that kills hundrets of thousands of humans all over the world.
Just my point...
And I do realize the OPs right to make the rules, but nevertheless, thats freedom of speech, or not ?
And please dont ban me =D

[edit on 22-8-2007 by finallianstallion]

posted on Aug, 22 2007 @ 04:59 PM

Originally posted by Cuhail
Well Mr. Penny. You are amazing.

Finally, someone with the insight to recognize my greatness.


posted on Aug, 22 2007 @ 05:02 PM

Originally posted by tezzajw
Isn't it great to make statements without proof?

Great? Its practically a career for a couple of established "celebs" on these forums.

According to Springer, you have to wait all 'nice-like' for more data and evidence before turning all nasty and sarcastic. That's my bailiwick.

posted on Aug, 22 2007 @ 05:42 PM
The short reply to both of those posts, Mr. Penny is this:

Tact is for people who aren't witty enough to be sarcastic. I would suggest tact, sir. Your wit suffers from a dull blade.

See, totally insulting , but, still nice.


posted on Aug, 22 2007 @ 05:47 PM
Kudos to Springer for this post. I was right on the edge of stopping even "lurking" these forums because of the extreme rudeness of certain individuals and the constant "one up" brinksmanship. I've noticed quite a few people who only troll the UFO forums so they can throw rotten tomatoes at anyone who has the gall to post their experiences.... For the same reason, I don't even "bother" to interact with the 9/11 forums because of the horrid signal/noise ratio. Again, thanks Springer.

posted on Aug, 22 2007 @ 06:11 PM
I have heard it said that much of one's credibility stems from their ability to answer their detractors. Disbelief is expressed by an opinion. For some, its a lifestyle choice. For others, its a reaction to their prejudices. No matter where it comes from, it needs to be met with civility and a thick skin.

posted on Aug, 22 2007 @ 06:41 PM
I don't mean to say anything bad but your post sounded kinda suspicious. Do you know of any sites that are against ATS.

posted on Aug, 22 2007 @ 06:48 PM

Originally posted by ClickClack

Being a new member here, I thought this sort of communication with each other was normal. I am happy to find out, it is not... It does not look very tempting to post, though

On the other hand, I can understand why people are getting upset, because there have been several hoaxes in the past, apparantly, and also "dooms day" predictions, but nothing ever happens...


Double C
welcome because this IS the standard for discussing just about everything, we have experts in most every field and owners who truly do care about the content and searching for the answers.

I think when they hit in streams like they did this summer it makes the skeptics a bit one sided in our thought process. I for one forgot just how to investigate and give benefit of doubt to a post, which deals with paranormal things. I forgot why I believe what I do about life out there somewhere. I got angry at this because I search so hard for proof of existence, because I have to know im not being taken for a ride.

I have one night in my past that a ball of light went by in the sky above me about 1000 ft at blink speed. It crossed my position from my back to front so i got a good quick look at it anyway. This was the clincher for me but I have no proof of what I think it was. I know for a fact it was not anything we had or proven to have. I didn’t share it because I can’t prove it beyond a shadow of everyone’s doubt. I know everyone is different in how they process things so it took a hit by the Spring man and others to bring me back to cool and the gang status.

We as members just have to remember that, and make sure we at least give the respect that is due everyone.

Until they screw us and then they are that crap that came out of the Xenomorph before it railed someone, that stuff for instance like the super secret agent operative person Ghost Raven, the infamous Chad drone jack ass and the dude who gave us the documents, oh yeah Jack ass that’s him to. Everyone remember those winners?

I flip flopped so many times I felt like Herman Munster, oh I mean John Kerry

Well sorry to ramble but I was feeling a bit type happy when I got home. Raised my left hand a few times and this is what I produce, rabbles..

Thx for reading and welcome to the jungle LOL

posted on Aug, 22 2007 @ 06:53 PM
Now thats the reason I joined ATS. Mark, I know you and I have had our differences in the past, and part of life is learning, and growing. I am truly glad to see you keeping true to yourself, and to the ideals set forth (by you, and the other two amigo's) in these forums.

I know it takes alot of hard work in running, maintaining, moderating, and expanding a website such as this, so thank you as a member. Its good to see the "boss" gives a damn about his people.
Keep up the excellent work, we all appreciate it.

posted on Aug, 22 2007 @ 07:15 PM

Originally posted by Justin Oldham
I have heard it said that much of one's credibility stems from their ability to answer their detractors. Disbelief is expressed by an opinion. For some, its a lifestyle choice. For others, its a reaction to their prejudices. No matter where it comes from, it needs to be met with civility and a thick skin.

Well said, Justin, and I agree totally. HOWEVER-----:

Springer, good post and it is The Great Ideal we are reminded of. It is, tho, an Ideal to be striven toward, rather than an example of the current status quo as it is, day-to-day, on ATS generally as regards posts and posters. I absolutely agree, and, at the same time, wish it were---true. I wish, in fact, that everyone, every Member of ATS, would subscribe and act accordingly--but, alas, it isn't the Reality. Again--I wish it was the Reality and subscribed to by all.

posted on Aug, 22 2007 @ 07:27 PM
I completely agree with you Springer.

You Three Amigos have done a great job, keep it up and don't give up.

It is really good to know that you guys care, I don't that ATS would be where it is today if you guys didn't.

Thank You for all of your efforts.

posted on Aug, 22 2007 @ 08:17 PM
The fact that Springer has to result to this is sad and disappointing to say the least.

No one in the staff should be policing what the members are doing in the forum, we should not even have to police ourselves. The sad fact is that action is need it, and the good thing is that most people agree.

When I came across this site the thing that got me hook was the way members respected everyone elses opinion, especially when talking about the UFO phenomena, we get enough ridicule already outside this place, so if we can not discuss it here in peace and civility I wonder where could we go?

Skepticism is healthy, when I joint this site I was a true believer but after a month of being here I change my position and trust me if was not due to a belligerent troll inundating a thread with rants that did not contribute nothing, if was the complete opposite, people taking there time analyzing the story, facts or anything presented and making an inform opinion of the facts presented..

I think the fact that so many hoaxes have been exposed here has put us on a high horse where nothing should be debated and become a race as to who debunk the story first.

People never forget what brought you here, what the motto of this site is and what it means to be civil and show respect towards others, it says a lot about YOU and it say a lot about US.

[edit on 22-8-2007 by Bunch]

posted on Aug, 22 2007 @ 08:46 PM
Just try to adhere to common human decency.

I never really post much in a thread unless the topic is interesting.
Heres another rule I try to adhere to -

If the OP can't be bothered providing as much information as they can, and also continue posting throughout the thread, then I can't be bothered posting either.

This stops the bs threads from growing even further.

Usually it's pretty easy to put all of the facts, theory, what can be verified and what can never be verified parts of an OP post all into a short summary. A conclusion can usually be made from there.

It baffles me why people argue so much when the above methods can easily be used.
Just be logical about things and there won't be as many arguments.

posted on Aug, 22 2007 @ 08:47 PM
In a recent MOD INTERVIEW that Johnny and I did, one of the MODS made the comment that the MEMBERS THEMSELVES normally do a great job of policing the threads and forums. I know all too well the intelligent factor of our membership (excluding Johnny and I, of course
). It is because of this belief that I know what the membership of ATS is capable of. In 18 months I have seen my share of idiots coming into ATS selling a bunch of crap and expecting that since our home has SPECIAL PEOPLE who have SPECIAL BELIEFS.... that they are going to buy whatever is posted. As Mark has said.... ALL OF YOU can smell a rat a mile away. The deal is, it is sometimes better to let the rat take a bite of the cheese than just take a sniff and run away. The idiots and fools will always end up biting the cheese.


posted on Aug, 22 2007 @ 08:50 PM
I haven't read all of the previous posts but I have to agree with my fellow members, if the person who posts on such and such thread and assumes the OP is a hoaxter why bother to contribute if your sayin' stuff based on your own assumtion which would 'cause unwanted attention from the "Three Amigos" who run ths great site and just give the mods more work to do, thanks for everything Springer and hope ya all have a great night.
( I flagged this thread

[edit on 22-8-2007 by steve-o]

posted on Aug, 22 2007 @ 08:57 PM
Well said Springer! It seems these days that a lot of people want results, and they want them NOW! Patience is a virtue as I've said plenty of times before. The bashing that I've seen here has sickened me, but I remained vigilant because I knew I could trust the mods and knew they would bring the hammer down sooner or later.

I've made several retorts to rude people in the past and was awarded ATS points, so I believe I share the same mind set as quite a few others. Theres no need to bash, no matter how outlandish the story may be, keep an open mind, deny ignorance if you would. Hoax or not, some of the stories are fun to read, and really perks my interest. With the crew we have on this wonderful site, hoaxes are proven so, and our knowledge increases, all it takes is time... And patience...

Thank you for such an awesome site Amigos!

[edit on 22-8-2007 by Slash]

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