A Chilling Interview With Zionist Benny Morris

There are extremist in every school of thought and world view - you have the Osamas, the Benny Morris', the David Dukes' (Klan), the David Koresh's (Waco, TX) etc...
and everytime one of them speaks loud enough they taint the race, religion, world view or group of people that they, in the most extreme and unflattering ways seemingly represent but in truth misrepresent...

unfortunately the gullable masses gulp it down as if it were the world view of all in that group of people...
I dare say, such is not the case~

[Edited on 17-1-2004 by intelgurl]

"In 1967 when Israel attacked their neighbors"


How about provide the historical source of this disinformation. You do know what "historical source" is right? When you do, I'll provide mine.


regards
seekerof

How about provide the historical source of this disinformation. You do know what "historical source" is right? When you do, I'll provide mine.

What would be a better source to prove my statement than words from the Jewish Virtual Library at us-israel.org?


"Israel had no choice but preemptive action. To do this successfully, Israel needed the element of surprise. Had it waited for an Arab invasion, Israel would have been at a potentially catastrophic disadvantage. On June 5, the order was given to attack Egypt."

www.us-israel.org...


There is no question that Israel attacked the arabs in 1967. They admit it. Israel may refer to it as a preemptive attack, but that is just nice spin for a surprise first strike in this case.

They may have had reasons, but when were there not reasons for starting a war?

The plain and simple fact is Israel made a surprise attack on their neighbors, and occupied their land.

Originally posted by ArchAngel
There is no question that Israel attacked the arabs in 1967. They admit it. Israel may refer to it as a preemptive attack, but that is just nice spin for a surprise first strike in this case.

A suprise first strike? You're a funny fellow. That one had me laughing for ages.
The Arab nations had amassed 465,000 troops, 2880 tanks and 810 aircraft on Israel's border whilst blockading the whole country.

When any nation (and in this case lots of Arab nations were involved) mass armies on your borders it is nearly always a preliminary to invasion. Incidentally, this "first strike" took place in a state of war as the Arab countries declared war on Israel in 1948.

So let's look at the facts:

The Arabs declare war on Israel.
They mass a huge army on her borders.

If you call the Israeli response a "suprise first strike" then you really need to get out more.
Egypt certainly wasn't too upset about it as Radio Cairo reported:
"The existence of Israel has continued too long. We welcome the Israeli aggression we welcome the battle we have long awaited. The peak hour has come. The battle has come in which we shall destroy Israel."

Pity they got their asses kicked so bad ain't it? I suppose you're still in tears.

"Q: And morally speaking, you have no problem with that deed?

A: That is correct.

Even the great American democracy could not have been reated without the annihilation of the Indians. There are cases in which the overall, final good justifies harsh and cruel acts that are committed in the course of history."

True, "the great American democracy" wouldn't be here today without committing unspeakable atrocities against the native people of this land. I find NO justification for those actions and I'm an American. My my, how twisted people become. Isn't it disturbing how those pro-Israel, at any cost, speak about the Native Indian people and the correlation to Israeli occupation as a means for justification? It certainly disturbs me.

[Edited on 1/17/2004 by Bangin]

disturbing is a good word for it, bangin.

A suprise first strike? You're a funny fellow. That one had me laughing for ages.

Israel did not declare war before they attacked, and they did attack first by their own admission.

That is a surprise first strike. Maybe you perceive it different, but that would be your own perception.

The Arab nations had amassed 465,000 troops, 2880 tanks and 810 aircraft on Israel's border whilst blockading the whole country.

There are many sources that state far differing numbers for the arab armies.

But bringing the armies near your border is what you do when a threat is present. Israel also had very inflamatory words. In order to protect themselves they moved troops to where they were needed. Israel also had their troops on active alert, called up reserves, and had their airforce flying most of the time. How is that any less of a provocation.

The fact is the Arabs did not attack. Their forces stayed on their own land. There is nothing wrong with that. What you refer to massing was redistributing forces in the event of an Israeli attack.

When any nation (and in this case lots of Arab nations were involved) mass armies on your borders it is nearly always a preliminary to invasion. Incidentally, this "first strike" took place in a state of war as the Arab countries declared war on Israel in 1948.

There was a cease fire that Israel violated when they attacked. Armies always move to their borders when there is threat of a conflcit. Usually it is both, as in this case. This has happened far more times without conflict that it has resulted in wars.

Flexing muscles, and being prepared is common.

Maybe the arabs would have attacked, maybe not. How can we know since Israel attacked first?

So let's look at the facts:
The Arabs declare war on Israel.
They mass a huge army on her borders.

Israel violated the cease fire.

If you call the Israeli response a "suprise first strike" then you really need to get out more.

Would I learn more about the 1967 war if I did get out more? What are good places to get out to if I want to learn more than I know about the history?

Egypt certainly wasn't too upset about it as Radio Cairo reported:
"The existence of Israel has continued too long. We welcome the Israeli aggression we welcome the battle we have long awaited. The peak hour has come. The battle has come in which we shall destroy Israel."

Words on the radio cannot ordert the military to attack as Israel did.

Pity they got their asses kicked so bad ain't it? I suppose you're still in tears.

I have pity all who died or suffered then, or since.

I have no support for those on either side who pushed the conflict forward, but were it not for Zionism it would not exist today.

"There are extremist in every school of thought and world view - you have the Osamas, the Benny Morris', the David Dukes' (Klan), the David Koresh's (Waco, TX) etc...
and everytime one of them speaks loud enough they taint the race, religion, world view or group of people that they, in the most extreme and unflattering ways seemingly represent but in truth misrepresent...

unfortunately the gullable masses gulp it down as if it were the world view of all in that group of people... "

I could not have said it better myself Intelgurl. The truth is allways somewhere in the middle.


[Edited on 17-1-2004 by Amuk]

Originally posted by ArchAngel
I have no support for those on either side who pushed the conflict forward, but were it not for Zionism it would not exist today.

Some would counter that if it were not for the expansionist desires of Islam it would not exist today.

You have also completely forgotten to mention the shelling of Israel and the Arab sponsored guerilla raids that took place prior to the war.


May 14, 1967: Egypt's President Gamal Nasser demands the withdrawal of United Nations force--established in 1957 as an international "guarantee" of safety for Israel--from the Sinai peninsula. The UN meekly obeys; the United States and Britain fail to rouse the Security Council to take action.

May 15: Three Egyptian army divisions and 600 tanks roll into the Sinai. World community does nothing.

May 17: Cairo Radio's Voice of the Arabs: "All Egypt is now prepared to plunge into total war which will put an end to Israel."

May 18: Voice of the Arabs announces: "As of today, there no longer exists an international emergency force to protect Israel. We shall exercise patience no more. We shall not complain any more to the UN about Israel. The sole method we shall apply against Israel is a total war which will result in the extermination of Zionist existence."

May 18: Nasser announces blockade of Straits of Tiran in the Red Sea, severing Israel's southern maritime link to the outside world. Israel considers the closure an act of war. (US President Lyndon Johnson later says: "If a single act of folly was more responsible for this explosion than any other it was the arbitrary and dangerous announced decision that the Straits of Tiran would be closed.")

May 20: Syria's defence minister (now president) Hafez el-Assad says: "Our forces are now ready not only to repulse the aggression but to initiate the act of liberation itself, and to explode the Zionist presence in the Arab homeland. The Syrian army, with its finger on the trigger, is united ..."

May 27: Nasser: "Our basic objection will be the destruction of Israel. The Arab people want to fight."

May 30: Nasser : "The armies of Egypt, Jordan, Syria and Lebanon are poised on the borders of Israel."

May 30: Jordan's King Hussein signs a five-year mutual defence pact with Egypt and the two set up a joint command, making clear its stance in any future conflict.

My 31: Egyptian newspaper Al Akhbar reports: "Under terms of the military agreement signed with Jordan, Jordanian artillery, co-ordinated with the forces of Egypt and Syria, is in a position to cut Israel in two ..."

May 31: Iraqi President Rahman Aref announces: "This is our opportunity to wipe out the ignominy which has been with us since 1948. Our goal is clear--to wipe Israel off the map."

June 4: Iraq joins Nasser's military alliance against Israel.

June 5: Six Day War begins: Israeli Airforce attacks airfields in Egypt, Syria, Jordan and Iraq.

June 10: Israel and its enemies accepted UN Security Council cease-fire demands. The war ended, leaving Israel in control of the Sinai peninsula, eastern Jerusalem, the Golan Heights, Judea-Samaria and the Gaza Strip. (The Sinai was returned to Egypt between 1978 and 1982, as part of an Israeli-Egyptian peace treaty.)

As for your statement that there are many different sources regarding the 1967 war, here are a few links that might help.

www.yahoodi.com...

www.burstnet.com...=1.0J/sz=468x60A/r=http%253A%252F%252Fwww.onwar.com%252Faced%252Fchrono%252Fc1900s%252Fyr6 5%252Ff6day1967.htm/1496/RETURN-CODE

www.adl.org...

www.palestinefacts.org...

www.nationmaster.com...

[Edited on 17-1-2004 by Leveller]

Some would counter that if it were not for the expansionist desires of Islam it would not exist today.

Before Israel there were Jews living all over the mid-east. The Muslims did not attempt to kill them all for more than a thousand years. It was not until after Israel was created(against their will) that the conflict began. If Israel had equal rights for Jews, and non-Jews there would be no conflict. Israel would simply be another nation defined by a line in the sand.

As for your statement that there are many different sources regarding the 1967 war, here are a few links that might help.

I have read most of the material at all of those sites. Much is disinformation. A true picture cannot be drawn without looking at both sides.

You have also completely forgotten to mention the shelling of Israel and the Arab sponsored guerilla raids that took place prior to the war.

The shelling bagan when Israel adavnced an armored bulldozer onto Syrian land. After the syrians fired on the ibulldozer Israel began firing.

The situation was started by Israel.

Originally posted by ArchAngel
Before Israel there were Jews living all over the mid-east. The Muslims did not attempt to kill them all for more than a thousand years.

Interesting, that use of the word "All" isn't it?

Interesting, that use of the word "All" isn't it?

Under Islam Jews are considered people of the book, along with christians. They are permitted to live in Islamic nations as long as they follow the laws, and do not try to convert Muslims.

Yes, there were times that jews were killed in Islamic nations, but these are rare instances.

The fact is that the hatred towards Jews did not exist at anywhere near the current level before Israel was born.

Israel is the cause of hatred against the Jews. Not the religion, and not the people.

Originally posted by ArchAngel
Interesting, that use of the word "All" isn't it?

Under Islam Jews are considered people of the book, along with christians. They are permitted to live in Islamic nations as long as they follow the laws, and do not try to convert Muslims.

Yes, there were times that jews were killed in Islamic nations, but these are rare instances.

The fact is that the hatred towards Jews did not exist at anywhere near the current level before Israel was born.

Israel is the cause of hatred against the Jews. Not the religion, and not the people.

You're not exactly being truthful again are you?
There weren't any Islamic nations until Islam invaded them.

" We may state in historical terms that in all the places where Islam imposed itself by military force, which has few historical parallels for its rapidity and breadth, Christianity, which had been extraordinarily vigorous and rooted for centuries, practically disappeared or was reduced to tiny islands in an endless Islamic sea.
In reality, the reduction of Christianity to a small minority was not due to violent religious persecution, but to the conditions in which Christians were forced to live in the organization of the Islamic state."

213.92.16.98...

The Jews were treated exactly the same as the Christians by Islam and sometimes worse.

Stop trying to hide behind half truths.



[Edited on 17-1-2004 by Leveller]

You're not exactly being truthful again are you?

I only say truth. That it is presented from a different perspective does not make any of it un-true.

There weren't any Islamic nations until Islam invaded them.

And for 1300 years they were Islamic. Right up until today.

They are well established by now I would think, and the majority of the people are Islamic.

What do you suppose the solution should be other than liberty for all?

Before Israel there were Jews living all over the mid-east. The Muslims did not attempt to kill them all for more than a thousand years.

Damn I wish I lived in your "world".

Damn I wish I lived in your "world"

It is true, but don't take my word for it, listen to what jews have to say about it.

The Jewish People are absolutely opposed to any injury against the Arab nation. The Arab nation never harmed the Jewish People until the advent of Zionist nationalism. The Jewish People are commanded by the Torah to seek the peace of the governments where they are citizens, and not to rebel against any nation, G-d forbid, especially when this concerns the Holy Land, to which we are forbidden to engage in mass immigration.

www.jewsagainstzionism.com...

Iraqi Prime Minister Said was a British pawn. He met Israeli PM David Ben Gurion in Vienna in 1948 and agreed to transfer the Iraqi Jews to Israel as part of the elite geopolitical program.

This and other Zionist crimes against Jews are documented in Giladi's book, "Ben Gurion's Scandals: How the Mossad and the Haganah Eliminated Jews,"(1992) which will be republished by Dandelion Books this spring.

By January 1952, all but 6,000 of 125,000 Iraqi Jews had fled to Israel where as "Arab Jews," they were treated as second-class citizens. Israel wanted them to perform the menial jobs vacated by the Palestinians. Between the Iraqi and Israeli governments, the Iraqi Jews lost much of their wealth.

Of his people, Giladi concludes: "An ancient, cultured prosperous community had been uprooted and its people transplanted to a land dominated by East European Jews, whose culture was not only foreign but entirely hateful to them."

Their fate was typical of all 500,000 Jews from Arab countries. This belies the Zionist argument that these Jews were expelled from Muslim countries and make up for displaced Palestinians.

www.conspiracyarchive.com...


I could provide countless other references, but you can find them yourself.

On the other hand, maybe they are all wrong, and you are right.

Do you have a source that contradicts the fact that there were hundreds of thousands of Jews living in Muslim nations before Israel was born?

Originally posted by ArchAngel


Do you have a source that contradicts the fact that there were hundreds of thousands of Jews living in Muslim nations before Israel was born?

What a dick.
One of the sources is called the Koran. The other one is called the Bible.

One of the sources is called the Koran. The other one is called the Bible.

Both were written long ago, and there is nothing about Islam in the Bible. There is no history in the Koran from after the time it was written. How could there be?

I assume that since you insulted me and supplied a non-answer that you failed to find proof for your false statements.

Here we are again with someone unqualified that the opinions of single jews represent the entire group of them. I think we have a name for people who allow specific events and opinions to form generalizations in their heads. I think they're called racist fools. I think so...

You'd do well to stop quoting extremists and using them to further your opinion on what "jews think". Each post makes you look worse and worse when you do it.

I've been here an awful long time arch, and it's become a common courtesy among the membership here not to dig up stupidity from a person or little group and use it to prove a point about a race or entire religion. It's called common sense, please employ it.

You'd do well to stop quoting extremists and using them to further your opinion on what "jews think".

Are you refering to the sources in my last quotes?

They were rebuttal to your false claim that Jews did not live all over the mid-east before Israel was born. The question is not the opinion of Jews, it is a question of fact.

I was not quoting them to promote extremist views. I quoted them as a reference to the fact that Jews DID live all over the mid-east before Israel. There were hundreds of thousands of them in all mid-east nations.

Unless you were refering to something else.....

Please explain. I do not see what you describe.

[Edited on 18-1-2004 by ArchAngel]