Time to test your values

I tried asking some work colleagues some tought questions, and was pretty damn surprised by some responses people gave.
It goes to show that nothing is black and white, and everything really boils down to what people value more, in a selfish kinda of way.

Im not baiting anyone, and wont bite at anyones answer unless its a good point worth noting.


1. Whats more important, doing whats RIGHT, or being a patriot?

2. Your a German farmer, its 1944. You know about the camps, you know about the crimes against poland, russia etc etc. Youve been summoed to fight on the front lines, because youve jsut been invaded, and will soon be over run unless enough men and materials are gathered.... youve been offered a ticket on a boat to Australia, you could escape without being caught. What do you do?

3. Its 2004. Your a Iraqi farmer. Your homes just been bombed, your families dead, you know which coalition solider did it, he says it was an accident, bad intellegence. What do you do?

4. Its 2005, Your living on the streets in Ramadi. Your broke, your starving, your friends are dead. Your families dead. Youve been offered $50 perday to fight for the insurgency. Youve also been offered $25 perday to become an Iraqi solider. What do you do?

5. Israel has just attacked Syria. Syria retaliates with missiles, and destroys Haifa, the United states declares war on Syria, a draft is implemented. Do you willingly go? or resist?

Allright I'll bite.

1.) Doing what's right.

2.) Take the boat. Barring that head to the front and hope I live long enough to surrender. And hope it's not to some of Skorzeny's english speaking infiltrators.

3.)Commit an act that ensures a quick reuinion with my family.(too much emotion to do the right thing and turn the other cheek)

4.)Depends if i'm Sunni or Shia. Both seem like sure death sentences. Sunni go insurgent, shia join the army. Athiest, make the better cash to enjoy before I die. If those are my only choices.

5.) Easy answer. Do my duty. Despite Israels problems and inequities it's still the only place in the ME i could see myself living as a Christian without the fear of my daughter being placed under a Burqa at some point if the radicals take over.

1. Whats more important, doing whats RIGHT, or being a patriot?

Doing what's right; by my own definition of right

2. Your a German farmer, ...fight on the front lines, [or] escape without being caught.

If I stay and fight, I can make a difference. Perhaps by stepping aside and letting the invaders pass Two things though, a humble farmer wouldn't know about the ghettos and later, the concentration camps. Unless there was a camp nearby. And, why go to the front lines? Why can't I stay and defend my own home and my own country? Why should I take a train and advance all the way to Hungary or wherever?

3. Its 2004. Your a Iraqi farmer. ...he says it was an accident, bad intelligence. What do you do?

Depends on how well I know the soldier. If he's a stranger, I try to kill him. Being an Iraqi farmer, I would have a different code of ethics. My own personal code of ethics would tell me to join the military and provide GOOD intelligence, so that no other family suffers as I have.

4. Can't really answer that one. Fighting for either side would give me food and shelter. With no family and no friends, what do I need money for? I'd go with whichever side convinced me they were working to stop the fighting and improve my country.

5. Ahh... Assuming you mean as an American citizen, would I allow myself to be drafted and fight in Syria for Israel, even though Israel has their own well equipped army - and assuming we still have the leadership we have now? I'd fight to my last breath to stay in the US. And I'd be loud about it, too.

reply to post by Agit8dChop

1. Whats more important, doing whats RIGHT, or being a patriot?

What is Important? It posses the same meaning as right, being a patriot and every other word you can use. It all is nothing.




We can apply Anything to the object, concept, and expression to get any outcome with no right or wrong answer.


That is the same answer I am going to give for each your questions.

Originally posted by Agit8dChop
1. Whats more important, doing whats RIGHT, or being a patriot?

In any country which engenders true and willing patriotism in its citizens, the issue of being right vs being a patriot would be non-existent. And a patriot believes in their country (as opposed to the government of same). I don't think a patriot could ever be one for the 'wrong' reasons. There are other terms for those situations. But, generally speaking, for me doing what I know to be right is always the right action for me.

2. Your a German farmer, its 1944. You know about the camps, you know about the crimes against poland, russia etc etc. Youve been summoed to fight on the front lines, because youve jsut been invaded, and will soon be over run unless enough men and materials are gathered.... youve been offered a ticket on a boat to Australia, you could escape without being caught. What do you do?

If I lived in Germany in 1944 I would no doubt have a completely different perspective/outlook/understanding about the situation concerning my Fatherland that tends to be the modern assumption these days...I'd not hesitate to serve my country until the bitter end...

3. Its 2004. Your a Iraqi farmer. Your homes just been bombed, your families dead, you know which coalition solider did it, he says it was an accident, bad intellegence. What do you do?

Forgive sincerely and get on with living. And give him my blessings and sincere prayer that he not come into a similar situation ever again; if he is telling me the truth then he is suffering for the incident just as I but in a different way, no doubt. I would not want him to have to re-experience something like that.
If he is bald-face lying to me....well, I would still forgive and get on with my life. What else could I do?

4. Its 2005, Your living on the streets in Ramadi. Your broke, your starving, your friends are dead. Your families dead. Youve been offered $50 perday to fight for the insurgency. Youve also been offered $25 perday to become an Iraqi solider. What do you do?

I'd find a way to scrape up some food here and there for myself (it's just me, after all) and get by until I could get out of the country...then I would go and not look back.

5. Israel has just attacked Syria. Syria retaliates with missiles, and destroys Haifa, the United states declares war on Syria, a draft is implemented. Do you willingly go? or resist?

Literally considering my present life situation - which is that I am a 38 year old woman who lives with my 81 year old widowed mother and am her ONLY source of care - I seriously doubt I would be in danger of being drafted.

1. Do what's right. Sometimes that'll mean doing things that would make me seem a patriot. Or it might mean doing things that might make me seem a traitor.

2. Take the boat. Fighting for an unjust cause to defend your country isn't doing the right thing.

3. Mourn the loss of my family, get over it, and try to start my life over. Killing the person who caused their death isn't going to bring them back, and it'll just put blood on my hands.

4. Neither. I try to find my way to a more peaceful area, and start over. As long as I can walk and use my hands, I can find work, even if it's mucking out a stable for a place in the loft and a sandwich.

5. Resist. I don't go to war on behalf of another country, and especially do not go to war because of a draft. I would go to jail, protesting the draft all the way. If there's not enough volunteers to fight the war, the war should not be fought.

1] hard question because the difference between doing what's right and being a patriot is only superficial. It is easy to do what is right in the short- term but hard to grasp the long-term big picture. A patriot might kill someone or blow up a strategic location (wrong in the short-term) but the results might benefit generations of people (right in the long-term). I would try to strike a balance on a situational basis that that would harm the least amount of people but benefit my country.

2] Probably take the boat and try to regroup with people or organizations that would assist in reestablishing order when the conflict is over

3] Depends on what I know of the specifics of the incident itself. Was I there? Is there a lot of conjecture as to what happened? I would not likely take revenge unless I had information about a deliberate act against people I knew to be innocent players

4] Depends on where my sympathies and affiliations lie (shia/sunni) and also my desires for my country post conflict. I would probably act against any gov't or power structure that did not act in the interest of my country as a whole or its sovereign homeland

5] Depends on why they stuck Syria. I think our absolute and unwaivering support of Israel hs been contrary to our own national interests. Although they are our allies I would question their actions and intentions until I was satisfied. If not, I would resist


Ultimately I am not prepared to die for those not prepared to die for me or who would view me as expendable. Thank you for this thread. It really makes one understand that the world is a very complicated and nuanced place. One man's freedom-fighter is another man's insurgent or terrorist.

Originally posted by Agit8dChop
1. Whats more important, doing whats RIGHT, or being a patriot?

Doing what is right.

Patriotism is a dangerous thing, since it promotes the idea of one being better
than someone else because of what nation they live in.

2. Your a German farmer, its 1944. You know about the camps, you know about the crimes against poland, russia etc etc. Youve been summoed to fight on the front lines, because youve jsut been invaded, and will soon be over run unless enough men and materials are gathered.... youve been offered a ticket on a boat to Australia, you could escape without being caught. What do you do?

I'm a bit confused here.
Am I being told to join the NAZI military, or the allies?
I'd go to Australia if it was the NAZI army was being told to join, however if it was
the allies, I'd stay and fight the NAZI's.

3. Its 2004. Your a Iraqi farmer. Your homes just been bombed, your families dead, you know which coalition solider did it, he says it was an accident, bad intelligence. What do you do?

Forgive him, because I know that no war is perfect.
What I would do as in who's side I eventually joined would depend on how
my life was before and after the invasion.

4. Its 2005, Your living on the streets in Ramadi. Your broke, your starving, your friends are dead. Your families dead. Youve been offered $50 perday to fight for the insurgency. Youve also been offered $25 perday to become an Iraqi solider. What do you do?

I would join the Iraqi army.

5. Israel has just attacked Syria. Syria retaliates with missiles, and destroys Haifa, the United states declares war on Syria, a draft is implemented. Do you willingly go? or resist?

I would go to Canada.
I don't support Israel, and if they want to attack someone else, they should realize
that who they attack is going to fight back.

Interesting questions.

1. I'm for doing what's right, as in following my own personal moral values.
2. I'd be on the front lines, probably. Considering that I would believe I was fighting for my home and country.
3. I honestly don't know. Probably join the insurgency. Fight to get the coalition out of the country.
4. Iraqi soldier. I'll fight for my country, but not for religion.
5. I'd stick around.

I hope this isn't off topic, but the questions reminded me of a morality test I found.
morality quiz


subbcindy

With all of the saber rattling between the U.S. and Iran, the "false flag" concerns, the anniversary of 9/11 and the economic uncertainty - I think more ATS members should be asking themselves these questions.