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Illegals and the "Sub-Prime Slime" Crash

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posted on Aug, 21 2007 @ 02:16 PM
reply to post by hikix

right, and those lawyers committed malpractice. thus, they also can be blamed for the issues.

as I said, too many people at fault to give any one group the dubious honor of being behind the sub prime issue.

certainly isn't the illegal immigrant who's at fault.

posted on Aug, 21 2007 @ 02:24 PM

Originally posted by Crakeur

yes and no. when rates are down around 4% for your loan, you have no clue how fast those rates will rise. you can't tell. a good lawyer will read the loan docs and alert you to the lack of a ceiling on the rate adjustments or any other trickery that might result in a payment that is going to be beyond the realm of affordable but even if the loan is 100% approved by an attorney, rapid rises in interest rates can (and will) result in loans that are no longer affordable.

Your right, you dont know when rates will rise, thats why you get a fixed rate loan. Not something that looks like a good monthly payment at the time. Its your financial responsibility to live within your means, not the banks.

Mortgage brokers are in the business of booking loans. They will do what they have to to get the loans closed. They aren't to be trusted (no offense hikix). That's why you hire an attorney.

There are shady companies out there that will do anything, thats why its the BORROWERS responsibility to make sure they are getting a good deal.

Also, when banks and brokers are offering up 110% financing, allowing someone who normally couldn't afford a home the chance to be a homeowner, they will take it. they have nothing to lose. if the property is foreclosed on, they will walk away with nothing but a mark on their credit rating. they will still be a sub-prime borrower so there's no big change for them other than they are back to renting.

110% financing should be your first clue you cant afford it, its designed to let you buy more house than you can afford, your borrowing against future equity, that should be a huge red flag to anyone!

[edit on 21-8-2007 by BluByWho]

posted on Aug, 21 2007 @ 02:25 PM
reply to post by Crakeur

right, and i think it's agreed (at least between me and you) that it was the people on the inside who ruined it for everybody else. Not Jose Alveraz, who thought he made enough money to support his family and make mortgage payments.

Because we gave Mr. Alveraz that adjustable loan, and now his payments are $700 more a month then they were last year, but we didn't bother to mention that small detail to him when we got him that loan.

.... and i don't know if you guys heard of the infamous Option Arm or MTA loan that starts out at 1%. The bank would pay us 4 points in the back (4%) to do this loan. On a $400,000 loan thats $16,000 that JUST the bank payed us. THAT loan is the biggest scam ever, check it out.

posted on Aug, 21 2007 @ 02:31 PM
on the bright side, there are many mortgage brokers who are now suffering for their misdeeds (again, no offense hikix).

In my business I am constantly helping clients get loans and I actually went and got licensed by the state banking department to book loans before realizing it was something I really wanted no part of. I ended booking loans thru a college friend who owns his own brokerage firm and this guy is about as honest as they come. he never went beyond suggesting "traditional" ARMS for people (no pay later, libor or other crap) and even then, he usually suggested them when the clients had the ability to pay down the loan or pay off the loan in the event that the new rate wasn't to their liking. He also never pushed a product that wasn't up to snuff with regards to rate caps etc. Sadly, he is suffering a huge drop in business along with the rest of the brokers.

posted on Aug, 21 2007 @ 03:00 PM
The rumor down here in Texas is that soon business owners like myself will have to run every employee through a government database. Every employee must be valid. Now my kitchen workers all provided documentation that I am aware is not official. Up till now that was enough and no one is at fault. If this crackdown happens and we are forced to release these workers there will be civil war.

There isn't enough resources or man power to round up the millions of people who are here illegally. Then these people will have to take what they need.

If I were an illegal alien, I would be concerned that the only reason I recieved a loan is because the bank wants me to default on it when:
A) Intrest rates rise
B) The feds crackdown on employers
C) I am deported.
These loans resemble leases to me.

[edit on

posted on Aug, 21 2007 @ 03:09 PM

Originally posted by smarteye
There isn't enough resources or man power to round up the millions of people who are here illegally.

our country couldn't handle the loss of that workforce.

posted on Aug, 21 2007 @ 03:21 PM

our country couldn't handle the loss of that workforce.

I guess we'll never know until we try. Until then its just speclation.

posted on Aug, 21 2007 @ 07:56 PM
This is a useless thread. Get on with your life.

posted on Aug, 21 2007 @ 08:02 PM
reply to post by hikix

I am a bit confused as to how an illegal can get a loan. I thought you needed a social security number in order for the mortgage company to run a credit report. And to have a credit report you need a social security number. What am I missing

posted on Aug, 21 2007 @ 08:06 PM
reply to post by Crakeur

I do not think that it is the lawyer's job to forsee financial difficulties with the purchase of a home and the assumption of debt. Their job is to make sure that the transfer of the home is free and clear of problems. In some states you are not required to have a lawyer for a house transaction. People need to take the responsibility for their own actions or at least hire a financial advisor to help them make the biggest purchase of their lives. No I am not a financial advisor but I am a CPA.

posted on Aug, 21 2007 @ 08:59 PM
reply to post by theebdk

a good lawyer will alert his client to an adjustable rate that has no cap. A good lawyer will let his client know that the loan he is getting has some clauses in it that are potentially devastating to their finances. I do, however, agree that the lawyer is not entirely to blame but there is an issue of not looking out for the client's best interest or, at the very least, making them aware of the pitfalls that await them.

posted on Aug, 21 2007 @ 09:19 PM

Originally posted by theebdk
reply to post by hikix

I am a bit confused as to how an illegal can get a loan. I thought you needed a social security number in order for the mortgage company to run a credit report. And to have a credit report you need a social security number. What am I missing

I dunno how an illegal gets a loan either. There is a section on the loan application that states "are you a resident alien". But i've never given a loan to a person who didn't have a social or any credit history.

I work for an honest company now, we follow procedure and take care of all our clients. We are all broke and i need to find another job!!

posted on Aug, 21 2007 @ 09:25 PM
I'm not okay with illegal aliens getting home loans either, but I would like to interject that the problem that has existed now for several years and is about to crash our economy is not due to illegals getting home loans. In fact, the illegals are probably paying their mortgage payments - faithfully. It's the huge number of greedy, irresponsible U.S. citizens who got themselves in humongous credit card debt and then jumped on the refinance bandwagon and took all their equity in an inflated real estate market and blew it.

THAT is what is about to bite us in the butt. And no - I am not complicit in this problem. I have a mortgage that is less than most people's car payments these days, and a car payment that is less than the car insurance payment.

Financial stupidity is causing this - not a questionable policy toward illegals.

posted on Aug, 21 2007 @ 09:45 PM

Originally posted by MrMicrophone
At some point this is going to be addresses in the media...probably after our economy crashes.

I'm sure this situation is already being addressed on various internet blogs &'s just that most of us probably don't tend to frequent that type of site. One common mistake I see in discussions that involve race, is the knee-jerk tendency to generalize...stereotype. There are all variety of immigrants, both legal or otherwise. I can only speak with confidence to areas of this issue where I have some personal experience, and I have a bit.

My mother is Hispanic, my father was Scottish. My grandparents on my mother's side crossed the Rio Grande together during the Mexican Revolution...they were 15yrs old, dirt poor, scared...and spoke zero english. They immigrated seeking a better life. Basically, Central Mexico had become a dangerous place...and they were hungry. Long story short, many years later they both received citizenship and were most proud to be 'Americans'. Grandma never did learn english, grandpa spoke enough to eventually get by in business. He started out working with the railroad in the Northwest. Worked years on a section crew laying in section camps, he, grandma, and a growing family...constantly on the move. Suffice it to say that by the time he died, he owned numerous properties in the Southwest, and was very successful in his peer group. Grandma & Grandpa went on to have 6 children...then those children begot children, and so on, and so on. I can honestly say that there isn't one ne'er-do-well in the family.

I don't mean to generalize here, but often, it seems the people I encounter that have a fetish for the illegal immigration issue, are folks that are struggling in some significant area of life. This often includes personal finances, or the vague sense that they haven't been able to achieve full potential. It seems to irk them that busboys, and other low wage immigrants can drive decent cars, raise families, and appear to prosper on $7 an hour...while they tough it out. After all, they're true American citizens and they deserve better, and they do deserve better from their government. The immigrants secret?...they know how to save. The simple things are seldom taken for granted, and usually enough. On the other hand, are there some that take advantage of the system...absolutely.

I was in business for many years, both in California, and here in NM. I employed predominately Mexican labor. Naturally, not all were honest hard working folks. Those that weren't I didn't keep, but I can honestly say that nine out of ten were. Based on my experience, I would wager that the average lower income Hispanic immigrant, legal or illegal, would be at least as likely to stay current on a home loan as their American counterparts.

For the most part, the market dynamics of supply/demand govern immigration. Many of us have not-to-distant ancestors that were willing to suffer long sea voyages to arrive here on boats...fleeing poor economic conditions or political oppression. Cheap labor was in high demand in the East. If the starving Irish could have simply walked across an imaginary line in the desert sand (illegally) do you think they would have? Bear in mind that most of Mexico is dirt poor, and it is a human attribute to seek better. I realize this is a complex issue rooted in the politics of bad government, fear, greed, and personal despair. However, if one understands that we are all just people, and that ultimately there is enough to go around if it's only managed well...there's hope.

I apologize for the lop-sided post, but in my opinion this thread has more to do with xenophobia and race, than with the subprime debacle.

[edit on 21-8-2007 by OBE1]

posted on Aug, 21 2007 @ 09:48 PM
Make the lie big, make it simple, keep saying it, and eventually they will believe it.
----Adolf Hitler

Christ am I in some time warp here? Is this 1930's Germany? This must be the same thought process behind blaming the German Jews for all the post WWI hyper inflation and other economic problems. The more things change the more they stay the same.

The economic crisis that looms on the horizon is one of our own making. People are living waaaaaay beyond thier means. Its really that simple. People speculated on buying stocks and properties and the banks were all to kind and quick to oblige them. HELOC, negative am mortages, balloon payments all predicated on ever increasing values and stable jobs.

Why wait when you can finance it. Maxed out on your credit? Get a few more cards and spread the balance around. What you owe 20K in credit cards? Bah, fill out that form.

The bottom line: The Banks are at fault for making questionable loans. The people are at fault for living way above thier means.
The illegal immigrants are as typical for these days scapegoats. What next blame illegals for El Nino? Its a Spanish afterall :shk:

BTW: Any illegal alien should not be able to get a loan for property. If a few banks did this then they deserve the defaults.

posted on Aug, 21 2007 @ 10:37 PM
as I mentioned in an earlier post, the IRS will give illegals a social security number (a temporary number) so that they can pay taxes while working here illegally. The way the gov't sees it, if they're going to work anyway, might was well collect the tax dollars. the illegals can then get a loan.

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