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Illegals and the "Sub-Prime Slime" Crash

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posted on Aug, 21 2007 @ 10:25 AM
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I still dont understand how a person that is trying to invest in your country is doing you an injustice. How are illegals making your lives worse? Is it because they are not like you , is it because you were told tht they hate you? Maybe you think they are here to hurt us?

I am a first generation american of hispanic descent. My parents came here from their respective countries. My father came here illegally. He has owned his own bussinesses for over 20 years in the upper manhattan area and has been a community leader for as long as he was able. If he was met with the same type of mentality about imigrants that is being demonstrated here, he would not have employed literally HUNDREDS of people. We would not have bought a home and paid for it for over 20 yrs. He would not have been able to help literally thousands of americans as well as imigrants alike, in everything from community events and adressing our communities problems to board members, to funural costs to burry peoples relatives or even just advice to rising business leaders, free of cost.

I dont say this to say "look", we are gods amongst men, I say it because it is a common story amongst immigrants. We like to over come. We like to help. We love our homes.

I worked in a mexican restaurant for a year as a waiter. The owner was a dish washer that entered this country ILLEGALLY. He worked his ass off and eventually opened his own restaurant. He currently owns three 5 star restaurnats in the city. The man is a friend to the underdog, as he recieves people with problems litterally right of the street. He feeds the local homeless community. He donates generously to a number of causes. Apart from being another well qualified community leader he is a role modle for many people in dire straights, as it is he was dirt poor. He started off from a insignificant loan from a bank as an illegal. His name, by the way, is Juan campos Rojas. I will not say my fathers name, but I will mention that he also started things off with a little capital from a bank loan.

the point is that the problem with illegal immigration is that it is a scape goat , a distraction from the real problems created by our government , ON PURPOSE. It is not juan or pablo working all day in the sun that aim to derail our country, it is uncle sam with the same tired lies that do nothing but shift the blame. All the while the worlds elite watch us fight people in the same boat as us, and laugh their sick twisted heads off. I hope you are happy. This mentality divides us and makes us weeker to subversion.

These people are like us, and they have already proven themselves all over this great nation. a few bad apples never define the bunch. I hope we can open our eyes to the truth. They dont want you sympathysing with them, you might then realize who your common enemy is. Like the old communist boogy man, we are being thrown for a loop. distracted.Wake up and yes, get over it. we are one.

[edit on 21-8-2007 by newyorkee]




posted on Aug, 21 2007 @ 10:39 AM
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Dude, seriously...I hate to post a real short one...but, the flow on sentences and lack of grammar make it hard to get yr view across...

Break it up a lil, cos i'm sure what you have posted has a lot of merit


Peace



posted on Aug, 21 2007 @ 10:48 AM
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reply to post by newyorkee
 


You are missing one of the points been made, we are in a middle of what could be the first century market crash on the housing.

Americans are losing their homes at a rates of millions in one year

This is due to predatory and misleading practices no entirely the fault of the consumer.

Then to add to the problem this same unfair and predatory practices are targeting a sector of the nation that can add more weight to the markets problems, illegal immigrants.

As a champion of illegal rights as you seem to be, you should be outrage also.

Just because the illegal issue is a touchy one among the legal citizen population it seems that when it comes to greedy corporate America they have not boundaries on how they can use their predatory ways to tap into anybody regardless of who or from where they come from or if they are legal or illegal.

This nation that is supposed to be the nation of opportunity has become the nightmare of no only American citizens but also the nightmare of illegals that already are in a precarious situation with their status.

What you don't seem to see is that this will affect more, the tax payer legal citizens that have to stay here and deal with the problems of our nation that illegal ones that can always hide within the system.



posted on Aug, 21 2007 @ 10:51 AM
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reply to post by Rilence
 


Please be careful when you bring the grammar card because I also happen to be a Spanish American and English is not my first language.



posted on Aug, 21 2007 @ 11:03 AM
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I agree with you that the problem is huge and it is something that targets our week and disenfranchised...the average citizen. We are probably in agreement that the abuse has to stop. It is that it knows no nation, color, or religion. Money talks and bs walks to them.

Where I agree that the problem effects us all, more so to the LEGAL citizen, I dont see the immigrant population as being the catalyst or the core issue with the unethical bank policies and practices employed here and abroad.

I understand that a large amount of resources go to "pick up the slack" of other people that share our country. The way I see it is that these people are not single handedly choking our nation into financial ruin.

This thread just seem to warn the reader that illegals are making a mokery of our financial institutions and bleeding our country dry when in fact it is the same banks and investment firms that are screwing us, Unilaterally.



posted on Aug, 21 2007 @ 11:44 AM
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Originally posted by newyorkee

This thread just seem to warn the reader that illegals are making a mokery of our financial institutions and bleeding our country dry when in fact it is the same banks and investment firms that are screwing us, Unilaterally.


I agree, but more so with this last part of your post.



posted on Aug, 21 2007 @ 12:33 PM
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There are 2 ways to enter this country:

1) Legally
2) Illegally

If your here illegally you have no right to ANYTHING we as Americans have or hold dear. There is a LEGAL way to enter this country, if your home is so bad then I would think waiting in line just like every other LEGAL immigrant, would be worth it.

I'm tired of the arguement that Illegals do the jobs Americans won't. That is just plain BS. Illegals take the jobs Americans could be working right now, maybe Americans would prefer not to do some of these jobs, but I am pretty sure if it came down to feeding your family and saving your home from foreclosure you'd work any job you could get your hands on.

Sorry for the rant but I am rather sick of pressing 1 for english.



posted on Aug, 21 2007 @ 12:44 PM
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This turned out EXACTLY like all threads on immigration. A big scare tactic, the boogy man. And all these trivial social inconvieniences.

Pressing one man, come on. there are more important issues concerning the financial well being of your country. Having a diverse population is nothing but a benefit.

So you press 1 for english, the guy in India doesnt mind learning your language for you to do so. he probably can speak up to 4 of them... Wish our country was out-sourced like that.

[edit on 21-8-2007 by newyorkee]



posted on Aug, 21 2007 @ 12:49 PM
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Originally posted by BluByWho
I'm tired of the arguement that Illegals do the jobs Americans won't. That is just plain BS. Illegals take the jobs Americans could be working right now, maybe Americans would prefer not to do some of these jobs, but I am pretty sure if it came down to feeding your family and saving your home from foreclosure you'd work any job you could get your hands on.


if that were the case, then there wouldn't be job opportunities for the illegals and they wouldn't be here.

The lenders preyed upon everyone, legals and illegals, with their new and interesting ways to bury a family in debt. Blame the banks that offered 110% financing, pay when you can financing etc.

It should also be pointed out that the illegals that people are so quick to blame, are some of the hardest working people in our country. They often come from countries where their freedom is limited and their family's future is bleak. They come here knowing that this is the land of opportunity and they tend to try and stay under the radar. They hold down several jobs, they live with other relatives, everyone chipping in to cover the cost of housing etc. They don't want any trouble so they tend to do everything possible to keep their home free from attention.

I'll take a neighborhood filled with them over the bulk of our home grown, lazy, do nothing but complain about everyone else for the issues they create society.

Sadly, we're our own enemy, blaming everyone else for the self created ills of our lives.



posted on Aug, 21 2007 @ 12:53 PM
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I will personally take responsibility for the mortgage crisis.


3 years ago during the "refi boom", we charged everyone 8-10% of their loan amount in closing costs. We gave everyone adjustable rates (bank payed us more
). We forged bank statements, and gave loans to people who can't even pay a single credit card bill!, we forged appraisals to make houses values go up.
And, we were all in our early 20's, making 20k a month, driving brand new bmws, wearing armani suits, having so much money we didn't even know what to do with it.

Honestly, i would take it all back if i really truly knew what i was actually doing.



posted on Aug, 21 2007 @ 01:10 PM
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Originally posted by newyorkee
Pressing one man, come on. there are more important issues concerning the financial well being of your country. Having a diverse population is nothing but a benefit.

So you press 1 for english, the guy in India doesnt mind learning your language for you to do so. he probably can speak up to 4 of them... Wish our country was out-sourced like that.

[edit on 21-8-2007 by newyorkee]


I am all for a diverse LEGAL population, equal opportunity, equal rights, and all of that jazzy stuff.

If I move to China I expect I am going to need to learn chinese to function in their society, or Japanese in Japan, etc etc. Our constitution is written in english. Many illegal immigrants come here to make money to send to their homes in Mexico, because what they make here makes their families quality of life a lot better at home. That money then leaves our financial system for good, its a drain on our economy.

Maybe if we weren't outsourcing all of our jobs we wouldn't need to worry about the 4 language speaking indian.

I'm not against immigration or anything like that, I am against people who are in this country ILLEGALLY when there is a legal way to go about it. People who are here illegally don't deserve to be here at all. Yes, people like your father do start businesses and create jobs, etc etc, but that is an example of the minority not the majority.


[edit on 21-8-2007 by BluByWho]



posted on Aug, 21 2007 @ 01:13 PM
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if that were the case, then there wouldn't be job opportunities for the illegals and they wouldn't be here.


Considering you don't have to document illegal workers or give them any type of benefits, or pay them properly, its usually more profitable for companies to hire them over american citizens.



posted on Aug, 21 2007 @ 01:20 PM
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Furthermore, consumers need to be more aware of the mortgages they are taking out and do some reasearch into what it is they are getting into. Everybody wants to point th finger. "Buyer Beware". It isn't the banks fault you put your name on the dotted line, you went to them for a service. People need to take responsibility for their own actions.



posted on Aug, 21 2007 @ 01:22 PM
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Originally posted by BluByWho
Considering you don't have to document illegal workers or give them any type of benefits, or pay them properly, its usually more profitable for companies to hire them over american citizens.


you'd be surprised what some illegals are making at jobs that americans seem to think is beneath them. you'd also be surprised to learn that many illegals pay taxes on their income. That's right, the IRS will give you an id number so you can pay your taxes while working illegally here and they won't sic immigration officials on the workers because, once again, they are more willing to do what many americans are not. they pay their taxes, they usually pay more than they need as often cannot afford the advice that would help them save tax dollars and they are often afraid of doing anything that might bring unwanted attention to them. American citizens thumb their nose at authority and are, generally, not afraid to push the limits of the law when it suits them. Illegals often come from places where pushing those limits result in a punishment that keeps them from doing the things we do without blinking.



posted on Aug, 21 2007 @ 01:29 PM
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Originally posted by BluByWho
It isn't the banks fault you put your name on the dotted line, you went to them for a service. People need to take responsibility for their own actions.


yes and no. when rates are down around 4% for your loan, you have no clue how fast those rates will rise. you can't tell. a good lawyer will read the loan docs and alert you to the lack of a ceiling on the rate adjustments or any other trickery that might result in a payment that is going to be beyond the realm of affordable but even if the loan is 100% approved by an attorney, rapid rises in interest rates can (and will) result in loans that are no longer affordable.

Mortgage brokers are in the business of booking loans. They will do what they have to to get the loans closed. They aren't to be trusted (no offense hikix). That's why you hire an attorney.

Also, when banks and brokers are offering up 110% financing, allowing someone who normally couldn't afford a home the chance to be a homeowner, they will take it. they have nothing to lose. if the property is foreclosed on, they will walk away with nothing but a mark on their credit rating. they will still be a sub-prime borrower so there's no big change for them other than they are back to renting.

everyone is to blame here. From the overzealous borrower to the sleezy lenders making up new and exciting ways to screw the borrower.



posted on Aug, 21 2007 @ 01:53 PM
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this is going like all of these arguments always go, it gets us no where. Our financial leaders have created this situation artificially so as to keep some major companies here paying taxes and getting more write offs, while exploiting the worlds third world population at our doorstep. This protects our assets from being taken over seas like what happened in cuba when fidel castro took power. He simply claimed the assets of our phone and electric companies we installed in the name of cuba. amongst other things.

We keep their home lands in turmoil so they have no choice but to pressure their respective governments for assistance. Aid which is turn asked of our countries here in the "first" world, and offered at increasing interest rates. We will give them millions to waste but not a dime of investment monies or options if the right people are not in power. We'll give it to them if they pocket alot of it for favors.

This process is what keeps the third world nations relying on our infastructure and incapable of building their own. while in return for said aid, trade agreements and policies are made that benefit us more than their own economies. Often putting the interests of our heartless coorperations over the ability of their farmers and private citizens to feed them selves and sell their products on the world market.

This also promotes coruption, as it is, that the money trail is almost non-existant since it is so easily written off as a humanitarian releif. No one doubts it. Look at the aid given to africa, empowering warlords to gain more supporters with the simple promise of food as pay for soldiership. If the aid is just money and not emergency supplies, then it easily transfered into the hands of arms dealers. dealers we let live and do their bussiness because it keeps the world we exploit week, and makes our ability to do so that much stronger.

If all these third world countries shared a border with us we could bet they would arrive in waves. They would do so to survive our active policy of hostility and political destabilization of their homes. Our leaders are fully aware of this since it was their plan.


If you have never seen the movie God of war, rent it. its the story of an arms dealer. The best part is the scene when the main character is caught and then set free by a US general. a movie , yes, but based loosely on a truth.

Want them on their side of the fence? Then I recomend you pettition your governemt to end all subversion tactics applied at home and abroad to effectively keep these people at our mercy. If we live and let live they might just stay home where they are welcome.

I dont think that weapons and training to rebels actually increases the employment rate in third world countries. Neither does giving vast amounts of campaign money to known criminals and sociopaths.

so tell uncle sam to cut it out, that we want the worlds citizens to not have to undergo mass migrations so as to avoid the termoil we create in their many nations. Do this and maybe ,just maybe ,your argument might be barking up the right tree.




[edit on 21-8-2007 by newyorkee]

[edit on 21-8-2007 by newyorkee]



posted on Aug, 21 2007 @ 02:03 PM
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If you guys bothered to read my post you would realize it wasn't the illegals that caused this. I'm on the inside, i know what went on. Mortgage Bankers and Mortgage Brokers got wayyyyy too greedy. And because of us and the tricks we used we are in this current situation.



posted on Aug, 21 2007 @ 02:06 PM
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reply to post by hikix
 



I agreed with you in my last post but I also put the onus on the lawyers who didn't alert their clients to the potential issues they might be saddled with, the borrowers themselves who ignored said issues and the banks who came up with all those insane lending products.



posted on Aug, 21 2007 @ 02:06 PM
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it seems that again the average joe must take it where it hurts due to the greed and lust of men with opportunity. That is their privilage and our duty. IT IS ENOUGH TO BURN IT ALL DOWN. One day guys, we will actually decide on the ethics that guide our society.



posted on Aug, 21 2007 @ 02:14 PM
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reply to post by Crakeur
 



Lawyers? We all supplied "our own" lawyers. "Our" Lawyers gave the client "discounted fees". The lawyers got rich off the scam as well.



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