Jail Nation

reply to post by Boondock78


No, all I want to do, is put the matter to rest - and I've done that.

The figures you show are for arrests, not for people imprisoned.

If you look up at the post where I replied to masqua, you'll see other figures from the same source, showing that prison figures are less for drug offenses than for other crimes and although prison terms for drugs have increased, cannabis is a very, very minor contributor, so cannabis does NOT figure in the argument.

Now, why not ease back on the hostility, and post proper reasoned arguments and we can have a decent discussion.

You said in one of your first posts that you weren't going to make legalisation an issue, and then you went ahead and did just that.

Let me also reiterate my position on legalisation - cannabis should be legal, but it should also be controlled, and this is very difficult to do. I believe that cannabis is a fairly harmless drug, despite recent government propaganda in the UK. It's certainly less harmful than alcohol or tobacco.
Harder drugs should be illegal, the problems they cause will not simply disappear just because they are legal - do you want a crack sale centre next door to you? or heroin? or crystal meth? or speed? or even coke?

well, i certainly will not patrol neighborhoods to move into next to a joint that sells h or something BUT, if there is a house 3 doors down from me and dude is selling H, so long as he don't bother me i don't care.
i've been saying that for a long time....

i DON'T CARE what people do in their own house so long as it don't effect me personally. once it starts to, then i get a bit more involved....
all that said, i've never seen a crack sale center...only in movies...

i guess i just have different views on the world.....the hell do i care if my neighbor likes the powder and sells a bit...
not my problem till it's my problem you know

edit* here is hostility budski......

Oh, I get it - you're on 2 strikes and think the world's against you - but you don't want to or can't stop toking, so you embark on a crusade against the unfairness of it all.

Click gnore> speaking with you is a waste of time - you add nothing but rhetoric - and not even good rhetoric.

^^^^^^^^^your post, not mine...

[edit on 24-8-2007 by Boondock78]

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[edit: removed unnecessary quote of entire previous post]
Quoting - Please review this link

[edit on 24-8-2007 by 12m8keall2c]

reply to post by Boondock78


You don't even know me, so how can you say that. That's just a knee jerk reaction because I didn't agree with you - I made my position clear from the start, and have done nothing but refute the opinions (not coherent arguments) put before me.

Do you dislike everyone who disagrees with you or doesn't share your opinion?
As soon as you saw I disagreed you went into attack mode, and I responded - which was wrong.

I haven't disagreed with everyone in this thread, just the one's who think that making drugs legal would solve the prison problems - a subject I refuted totally as an urban myth.

I AM sorry for the 3 strikes comment - it was uncalled for, nasty and I apologise unreservedly - but please understand that nobody likes being ganged up on, and that's what happened IMO, just because I didn't have the same point of view - this on top of the fact that you couldn't even be bothered to look at the evidence I presented in support of my argument.

Like I said - I just wanted to draw a line under the whole cannabis argument and I did that pretty thoroughly. There IS room for discussion about other drugs, and the question of legality - but I think an objective, non-personal view is needed - it's not just about what affects the individual, it's about how it impacts on society as a whole.

I didn't ignore you because I felt that you had things to contribute to the thread, if only we could get away from the whole cannabis thing - cannabis is pretty much a non-issue as far as prison population goes.
Harder drugs? Yes
Cannabis? No

If you feel the need to treat me with hostility, then fair enough, but I won't fall into the trap of reciprocation - it solves nothing and just leaves a bad taste in the mouth.

Please people.

Let's get back to the topic and stop going after each other.
.

reply to post by Boondock78


So true, See what a lot of people don't understand is, the concept of mind your own business, If someone's not hurting you directly, then what they do is there business and there right as a human being, Thats what this country was founded upon, individual rights, If people would understand this concept and stop forcing there views, there values, and there opinions on other people, this country would be a much better place, and one that the founders intended it to be.

There are many things I don't agree with so far as what other people do, and I choose not to do these things, However, what they do is not my concern unless it hurts me, or violates my individual rights, what they do on there property to themselves is there business.
and I have No right whatsoever to decide what they are allowed to do.

even the thought of such things is unlawful, and against the very foundation of this or any country.

Every man is born free, until another man enslaves him.


[edit on 24-8-2007 by C0le]

reply to post by C0le


But what about when it affects the community you live in?

If there was a serial burglar in your neighbourhood you wouldn't be bothered unless you were burgled?
Or a serial murderer?

Are you saying it's a case of "I'm all right jack, sod the rest of you"?

Originally posted by budski
reply to post by C0le

 

But what about when it affects the community you live in?

If there was a serial burglar in your neighbourhood you wouldn't be bothered unless you were burgled?
Or a serial murderer?

Are you saying it's a case of "I'm all right jack, sod the rest of you"?

My position still stands, your scenario is different then the one I stand behind.

In your scenario this person isn't doing this to himself, or on his own property, Hes directly hurting others possibly physically and financially which is a violation of individual rights.

and in such cases should be punished accordingly.

[edit on 25-8-2007 by C0le]

reply to post by C0le


And drug dealers affect the area in their immediate vicinity - undesirable elements spend more time in an area than they normally would, increasing the chances of crime being committed - but I digress.

What are your thoughts on the high level of incarceration, bearing in mind that the drug angle has been pretty much refuted.

Originally posted by budski
But what about when it affects the community you live in?

If there was a serial burglar in your neighbourhood you wouldn't be bothered unless you were burgled?
Or a serial murderer?

Are you saying it's a case of "I'm all right jack, sod the rest of you"?

we're going from someone peddling dope to someone burgling and/or killing? reaching again...

i know what i said. it was so long as the person is an adult(or whatever is between 2 consenting adults) and it does not interfere with my life, my family, my property, then i don't care..
pretty sure someone getting brugled is being interfered with...i don't agree with this. same as murder so stop playing.
i'm saying not everything is the same across the board....

am i suposed to care if the person 4 houses down from me deals grass? cause i sure don't. for all i know, they do deal....
it obviously don't effect me so what should i care.

every drug dealer, every serial killer, ever rapist lives next door to someone....do you know all the people that live directly around you? say 3-4 houses on all sides...
if not, they 'could' be anything but who cares man...let people live their life.
as long as they are not hurting anyone but themselves then more power to them.

i am not the one to dictate morality and laws.

Originally posted by budski
And drug dealers affect the area in their immediate vicinity - undesirable elements spend more time in an area than they normally would,

what makes someone an undesirable element? the fact they do drugs?
sure if you go to some dirt poor sections of town you will see this but newsflash dude, people sell grass, coke, meth, ex, in 'ritzy' neighborhoods as well man....

it is not limited to 'undesirables'

lawyers snort coke. doctors snort coke.
movies stars and models snort coke.....

what is an undesirable? as it pertains to this discussion

reply to post by Boondock78


I'm not going to get into all the illegal substance thing
suffice to say, that sociology suggests that crime follows illegal substances - please try to look at the records, instead of making a snap judgement based on what you want.