Did the Space Shuttle dock at the Secret Space Station tonight?

Originally posted by zorgon
So the general consensus is... FULL STEAM AHEAD AND DAMN THE TORPEDOES

O-K, I see what's going on here. "General" didn't include me.

While I was looking for events for space science, you went to a UFO expo. Am I right? No wonder I couldn't find anything in SF. And you talked about San Jose. Or was it San Diego? Durned if I remember it correctly.

My position is the High Frontier, a vast network of space colonies within our solar system totaling almost a thousand Earths as envisioned by Gerard K. O'Neill for the future, and what we have done up to now to realize that potential. I maintained that what has in fact happened is the inverse of what was supposed to occur, the High Frontier becoming secretive and privatized, locked away from public access. In both cases progress is slow, but in the long run one is doomed because it will erupt in war.

War in the midst of plenty, but isn't that our MO?

About that UFO expo, did they review EFOs and SAPs? I bet I could get that at a space science event...I don't even frequent MUFON as much as I used to...well, perhaps you should fill me in with where we are going with all this...

hello MR Lear. I have a lot of respect for you and i've heard you on C2C many times. you are a very good guest there. but I have to disagree with you about a secret space station. I really do not think there is a space station that we are not aware about. Perhaps the shuttle took a slow orbit or slowed down or other trajectory explanation. I can't tell for sure where it was all that time. But I don't believe that theory. Saying that, that does not mean that I am totally close minded to the idea, if I was to see a picture of this secret base, I'd change my mind appropiately.

reply to post by undo

Maybe he saw the next generation of the B-2 bomber, it still does not mean it can go into space. There is no way he could make that assessment from seeing the craft fly over. By the way the shuttle ferry plane is nothing more then a modified 747 with a 195 foot wingspan the wingspan on the B-2 is 172 feet, so they are quite close in size already.

Far be it from me to say there are no black projects, sure there are. However, there is no making rocket launches in secret, they are blatantly obvious across hundreds of miles and require massive support structure. I seem to recall you mentioning that you live near the cape over there, exactly how much infrastructure is required around the cape for shuttle ops support? There are hundreds of contract and military installations from the cape over to Orlando which all support that industry. Lets not even mention the entire other facility that is required in Alabama to make the solid rocket boosters and external tanks. Now can you honestly tell me that rocket launches are occurring in some secret location without any support structure?

Anyway if they had the type of technology you are claiming, then this whole thread is a sham from the start as they would not need to be docking the space shuttle with this secret space station. It would be easier, cheaper, and more secretive to be flying to it with their big black interstellar triangle craft, now wouldn’t it?

edit to add:
I just came across intelligirls post on the latest mach 6 UCAV, maybe an early mockup of this is something like what your husband saw:
www.abovetopsecret.com...
Its not admitted to be a spacecraft, but it looks very similar to the NASA proposed space plane.


[edit on 9/4/2007 by defcon5]

Originally posted by zorgon
BTW I really have to commend you and JRA You have been filling so many pages with standard issue fact sheets on existing old spacecraft that can be found in any text book, wikipedia or website...

Filling so many pages? I didn't think 4 posts spread over two pages was that much at all, but ok. I'll try to cut back

As for posting "standard issue fact sheets on existing old spacecraft" which, as you say, can be found in numerous sources, you seemed to be having a little trouble. So I thought I'd point out your error. (in regards to Burans payload size)

Great info to be sure, but I don't really see what it has to do with secret space stations or Lunar cargo transports that carry "lunar generated liquids" to LEO

I suppose endless re hashing of old data is one way to bury a thread

Hey, you brought up the topic of the Buran, not me. So don't even try to push the blame on me.

Lets continue with the topic at hand shall we?

Originally posted by jra

Yes it sometimes takes a few days to dock to the ISS. As you should know, the ISS orbits the Earth, and is constantly moving. When they launch a Shuttle to the ISS, they have to do it when the ISS' orbital path is over the launch area, but that doesn't mean that the ISS itself is directly overhead. It can be on the other side of the Earth, so the Shuttle has to play catch-up first.

However if there were another and secret space station they wouldn't have to play catch up at all. They would just play 'hook-up'. Get it?

This is the reason for the delay in docking. On the next Shuttle launch, try watching NASA TV and you can see live footage of the Shuttle catching up to the ISS. Also go to sites like Heavens Above to see where the ISS and Shuttle are and see if they will pass over your area at night. Then you can see the Shuttle and the Station with your own eyes.

Thats a good idea. On the next shuttle launch we should be able to tell exactly where at least one of the secret space stations is. I don't know why I didn't think about that before considering that during the last launch the launch window was about 10 minutes and then it takes 3 days to dock. Things are hidden best in plain sight don't you think?

I'm sure that's not the explination you were hoping for. It's certainly a lot more mundane than a super secret space station.

I wasn't expecting any admission from you about anything JRA. I'm trying to find the cracks. The cracks that will eventually lead to the exposure of an array of secret space stations, lunar mining operations, operations on Mars and possibly other planets which will put the Gary McKinnon find of 'non-terrestrial officers' and his possible incarceration for 70 years into context.

What do you think JRA, could I go to jail for 70 years for uncovering an array of secret space stations, lunar operations, opertions on Mars and operations with non-terrestrial officers? I am just using NASA's own pictures and deductive reasoning. Do you think that would fall under the Homeland Security Act? Do you think they could bend the Homeland Security Act to include exposure of secret space stations, lunar operations and operations with non-terrestrial officers?

How long do you think it should take? Whats a good time frame in your opinion?

Assuming your launch was timed correctly..what?... 20 minutes to docking? An hour at the most to be in the ISS bar sipping a cool one.

There was some downtime for the Shuttle crew after undocking from the ISS. And there were a bunch of inspections and systems checks and all that sort of stuff to go through. It's better to take your time and make sure everything is done correctly rather than rush it don't you think?

Hmmmmm. A bunch of inspections? Care to elaborate? Systems checks? Like what kind of systems checks could take 52 hours?

...and all that sort of stuff to go through.

How about a list of 'all that sort of stuff'. They just left the space station after being there several days what 'sort of stuff' are they going to check that they couldn't have checked while docked? And why would it take 52 hours. It doesn't add up JRA.

I like how you refer to it as an "excuse", automatically assuming that their is no good reason for these delays. At least you admit you're too lazy to check up on this stuff and that you would rather just make something up.

Now its a 'delay'? How could it be a delay? This was planned many months ago. Its not like they undocked and called up Houston and said, 'Houston we got a couple more things to check out here. Should only take 2 days. Copy that?"

"Roger Endeaver, 2 days. Got enough fruit and vegetables?

Just how much fuel and cargo do you think the Shuttle can carry? Why the need for shuffling all this cargo around?

25 tons plus whatever Progress brought up. The Shuttle stops at the secret space station and drops off what they have for cargo. Then they dock with ISS and load up whatever Progress brought up and when they undock they go back and unload that cargo to the secret station. Its find of cool how all of this has been kept secret for so long.

How can the Shuttle fly back and forth to multiple space stations, do these stations orbit on the same path?

Thats possible. Fly to another space station might be as simple as undocking, applying a little thrust and waiting for the next secret space station in orbit to catch up.

Why have no other amature astronomers spotted another object moving along the ISS's orbital path?

The use of amateur astronomers is highly overrated. Phil Klass used to say the same thing about UFO's, "Why haven't any amateur astronomers reported any UFO's?" as if hundreds of amateur astronomers go out every night to patrol the skys.

But in answer to your question its possible that one amateur astronomer did spot and did take pictures of at least 1 of the secret space stations.

Why use a Shuttle with civilians onboard when you can use an unmanned rocket to deliver supplies?

Technical expertise required on the secret space station. You didn't think they needed 7 crewmembers to work on the ISS did you? You know I don't remember watching carefully to see if every crewmember was actually seen on the ISS. I'll bet they leave one or more on the secret space station and fake it on the ISS. Or they could tape a fake appearance of them all together while they are still on earth and then use that fake tape for when they are supposedly on the ISS. Like the school teacher. Why throw a little old school teacher into a highly secret operation? Good cover. And besides, she was not just a little old school teacher.

Defcon5

He says the black one looks like it, sorta.

BTW, he says the one he saw was BIGGER than the shuttle ferry. Much bigger.
he also said, when it accelerated it blinked out, as in disappeared, and reappeared farther away. And, it accelerated quickly. This is a guy who worked around fighter jets for 23 years. It was not a conventional craft.

[edit on 4-9-2007 by undo]

Aren't satellite launches considered fairly regular and mundane?

As such wouldn't this make the perfect cover story for other type launches?

Is it public knowledge every time a spy satellite is put into orbit?

Originally posted by johnlear
Thats a good idea. On the next shuttle launch we should be able to tell exactly where at least one of the secret space stations is. I don't know why I didn't think about that before considering that during the last launch the launch window was about 10 minutes and then it takes 3 days to dock. Things are hidden best in plain sight don't you think?

That is, assuming there is a SSS to see. You should also take note of where the ISS is located at the time when STS-120 launches in October.

I wasn't expecting any admission from you about anything JRA. I'm trying to find the cracks. The cracks that will eventually lead to the exposure of an array of secret space stations, lunar mining operations, operations on Mars and possibly other planets which will put the Gary McKinnon find of 'non-terrestrial officers' and his possible incarceration for 70 years into context.

I believe Gary McKinnon is just being made an example of, unfortunately for him. He "hacked" (I use the term loosely) into some low security (and poorly secured) government computers. Breaking into some ones computer, be it, personal, corperate or government, is a crime plain and simple.

I've read interviews about how he got into these computers, he's nothing more than a "script kiddie". Plus any sensitive/classified information is kept on a completely seperate network, not on computers that are connected to the internet.

What do you think JRA, could I go to jail for 70 years for uncovering an array of secret space stations, lunar operations, opertions on Mars and operations with non-terrestrial officers?

As long as you don't do something stupid and illigal, like "hacking" into a government computer, you should be fine.

Assuming your launch was timed correctly..what?... 20 minutes to docking? An hour at the most to be in the ISS bar sipping a cool one.

But again, it depends where the ISS is when they launch. If the ISS is on the opposite side of the Earth when they launch, then they aren't going to get there in 20 minutes that's for sure.

Hmmmmm. A bunch of inspections? Care to elaborate? Systems checks? Like what kind of systems checks could take 52 hours?

Who says all the inspections and checks take 52 hours? Astronauts also have to eat and sleep, plus they also get some free time to themselves. This isn't a sweatshop we're talking about here.

25 tons plus whatever Progress brought up. The Shuttle stops at the secret space station and drops off what they have for cargo. Then they dock with ISS and load up whatever Progress brought up and when they undock they go back and unload that cargo to the secret station. Its find of cool how all of this has been kept secret for so long.

So what here went to the SSS? STS-118 Cargo bay

There's 14 tons worth of stuff in there. Some of which will be left at the ISS, other stuff which is just needed, like the orbiter docking system and the canadarm and things like that.

The Shuttle didn't bring supplies for the ISS, that's what the Progress is for.

Thats possible. Fly to another space station might be as simple as undocking, applying a little thrust and waiting for the next secret space station in orbit to catch up.

The Shuttle doesn't carry that much fuel for its OMS and RCS. This would mean that the SSS orbits on the same path as the ISS, so why doesn't anyone ever see 3 bright dots in the sky, when the Shuttle is between the ISS and the SSS? How is it that I can be watching NASA TV, seeing the Shuttle slowly flying away from the station and never docking anything else in the mean time? Or is that all fake?

The use of amateur astronomers is highly overrated. Phil Klass used to say the same thing about UFO's, "Why haven't any amateur astronomers reported any UFO's?" as if hundreds of amateur astronomers go out every night to patrol the skys.

I go to a forum where many amature astronomers go and post there photos. They always have new photos. One of the members is always photographing the ISS and Shuttle when it's in orbit. He's never spotted a SSS yet. I wouldn't underestimate them. I'm surprised you and the others aren't out there every night looking for these things trying to gather some actual evidence on your own.

Technical expertise required on the secret space station.

And you know this how?

You didn't think they needed 7 crewmembers to work on the ISS did you? You know I don't remember watching carefully to see if every crewmember was actually seen on the ISS. I'll bet they leave one or more on the secret space station and fake it on the ISS. Or they could tape a fake appearance of them all together while they are still on earth and then use that fake tape for when they are supposedly on the ISS. Like the school teacher. Why throw a little old school teacher into a highly secret operation? Good cover. And besides, she was not just a little old school teacher.

Or, you could go and look over the footage and photos from the mission and check for yourself insted of just making wild speculation. Oh but of course it could all have been faked before hand anyway, so why bother?

Originally posted by bobbyt
Is it public knowledge every time a spy satellite is put into orbit?

Yes it is. Every launch, be it classified or not, is listed. Only the details of the cargo is classified. Usually one can find information to get a basic idea of what it is, but not much more. For example, there's four listed here.

[edit on 4-9-2007 by jra]

Here is a copy of the article in the Las Vegas Review Journal January 28,2006: (blue arrow points to approximate position of secret base)

Oh western shoreline of the Great Salt Lake, no?
That area between the salt lake and Nevada border is so desolate.
The only thing for miles is a Morton salt plant, till about 15 miles
outside Wendover, where the salt flats land speed area is and that
weird 2 1/2 million dollar modern art tree made of cement

EDIT: Oh nevermind the Great Salt lake comment. lol I see it's
all Nevada on the map.



[edit on 4-9-2007 by undo]

I'm afraid this thread has confirmed what I feared about John Lear. Someone of his stature should know exactly what limitations space shuttle has as far as maneuvering about in orbit. If there is technology decades more advanced than this (in other words, anti-grav systems) then the entire public NASA stuff would be a farcical front, right? When you start to expound theories that completely contradict one another, how can you possibly believe them both?

Does the US secret military have technology beyond what we know? Most certainly. The shuttle has nothing to do with it unfortunately, and we are already seeing that the ISS is more or less a joke and within the next few years it will most likely be abandoned to a fiery fate like all the other orbital platforms that were never finished to their potential.

As for the drafts of heavy lifters and such, there are an unlimited number of wishful projects that have been drawn up since the dawn of time, I won't go into why it is obvious none of them have come to light because defcon5 has that covered (thanks for that, by the way).

I think we need to stick the basics here, and I know I have no pull here when it comes to the little numbers beside my name but I have been in the scene longer than most. The recent 'soft disclosures' like Buzz Aldrin and the Apollo bogeys are the kind of thing we really need to focus on and coax the government into talking about. Not all of us are religious nutcases and we can handle the truth, it is time to start discussing what is really going on.

Mr. Lear I respectfully must tell you that I believe your freaking nuts
What proof do you have for the second space station other than your ill concieved ideas?

Originally posted by KaiBosh

I'm afraid this thread has confirmed what I feared about John Lear.

You are not alone KaiBosh. Many feel as you do.

Someone of his stature should know exactly what limitations space shuttle has as far as maneuvering about in orbit.

I wish I knew more.

If there is technology decades more advanced than this (in other words, anti-grav systems) then the entire public NASA stuff would be a farcical front, right?

That is correct. Our anti-grav technology dates back to the middle 50's when Lear, Incorporated was a major contractor. Anti-grav, or put more correctly, 'gravity shielding' was perfected in the late 50's and we made our first trip to the moon in 1962.

When you start to expound theories that completely contradict one another, how can you possibly believe them both?

It depends on which ones you are talking about. Please specify.

Does the US secret military have technology beyond what we know? Most certainly.

That is correct. By about 50 years.

The shuttle has nothing to do with it unfortunately, and we are already seeing that the ISS is more or less a joke and within the next few years it will most likely be abandoned to a fiery fate like all the other orbital platforms that were never finished to their potential.

Correct. And that is part of the deception. We are watching decades old techonolgy in a rapidstate of decay. Someone was hoping that they could get the Shuttle retired and the ISS abandoned with no one being the wiser about what else was up there.

I speculate that the plan was to retire the Shuttle and not replce it with anything but arguments and delays so that the real space program could continue on in total secrecy. Alas, the best laid plans..

As for the drafts of heavy lifters and such, there are an unlimited number of wishful projects that have been drawn up since the dawn of time, I won't go into why it is obvious none of them have come to light because defcon5 has that covered (thanks for that, by the way).

Speaking of heavy lifters, a friend of mine was working on a piece of mining equipment destined for the moon that was so large he actually rented an airplane to fly around it to grasp the size of this immense construction.

Now whatever took this to the moon...now thats a heavy lifter.

I think we need to stick the basics here, and I know I have no pull here when it comes to the little numbers beside my name but I have been in the scene longer than most.

With all due respect KaiBosh, what scene would that be (specifically) and how long exactly have you been here? Or there? Or wherever the 'scene' is that you are talking about?

The recent 'soft disclosures' like Buzz Aldrin and the Apollo bogeys are the kind of thing we really need to focus on and coax the government into talking about. Not all of us are religious nutcases and we can handle the truth, it is time to start discussing what is really going on.

You're right. Buzz needs to quit talking about bogeys and pay more attention to his company. whats its name? Oh, yes Starcraft Enterprises. We've all heard enough of those UFO stories.

Originally posted by Dad52001r

Mr. Lear I respectfully must tell you that I believe your freaking nuts.

Many feel as you do, Dad52001r. Heck sometimes I feel the same way.

What proof do you have for the second space station other than your ill concieved ideas?

No proof yet but a whale of a lot of circumstantial evidence. I'll just keep bumbling along, collecting information here and there and eventually I'll stumble on the holy grail of evidence, whatever that turns out to be. Fortunately for me everything is hidden in plain sight. All I gotta to is look carefully.

Thanks for the post Dad52001r.

Originally posted by jra

That is, assuming there is a SSS to see. You should also take note of where the ISS is located at the time when STS-120 launches in October.

Yes, and if it takes 3 days to dock I won't be surprised.

I believe Gary McKinnon is just being made an example of, unfortunately for him. He "hacked" (I use the term loosely) into some low security (and poorly secured) government computers. Breaking into some ones computer, be it, personal, corperate or government, is a crime plain and simple.

I think you are missing the point. Gary saw not only lists of 'non-terrestrial officers' but he got a quick glimpse of one of the secret space stations. I believe he said it was all black and this would explain why its very difficult to see.

As long as you don't do something stupid and illigal, like "hacking" into a government computer, you should be fine.

I can barely find ATS so theres no worry on that score.

But again, it depends where the ISS is when they launch. If the ISS is on the opposite side of the Earth when they launch, then they aren't going to get there in 20 minutes that's for sure.

No they won't get to the ISS in 20 minutes, but they will get to one of the secret space stations.

Who says all the inspections and checks take 52 hours? Astronauts also have to eat and sleep, plus they also get some free time to themselves. This isn't a sweatshop we're talking about here.

You must be joking JRA. They just undock after 4 days at the ISS and they need a nap? Its only 30 minutes to earth and its ALL DOWNHILL!

So what here went to the SSS? STS-118 Cargo bay

I flew cargo for 20 years. Looks like theres plenty of room to me.

There's 14 tons worth of stuff in there. Some of which will be left at the ISS, other stuff which is just needed, like the orbiter docking system and the canadarm and things like that.

Wow. Imagine what it looked like when it first docked at the secret space station. I'll bet that thing was crammed!!!

The Shuttle didn't bring supplies for the ISS, that's what the Progress is for.

Thats correct. The shuttle makes its first stop at the secret space station. Unloads the cargo for there. Then goes to the ISS, does some busy work then loads up the cargo Progress took up and takes that back to the secret space station. If Progress went to the secret space station first it would be too difficult to hide.

The Shuttle doesn't carry that much fuel for its OMS and RCS.

The shuttle doesn't need the OMS to go to the secret space station. It bascially lets the secet space station come to it. They are both in the same orbit.

This would mean that the SSS orbits on the same path as the ISS, so why doesn't anyone ever see 3 bright dots in the sky,

As Gary mentioned, the quick glimpse he got of the secret space station it was all black. I'm sure there are excellent ways of subduing the reflection of the sun. Ask Joe Resnik.

when the Shuttle is between the ISS and the SSS? How is it that I can be watching NASA TV, seeing the Shuttle slowly flying away from the station and never docking anything else in the mean time? Or is that all fake?

Well for one thing the secret space stations are probably half of an orbit away. If there are more secret space stations (maybe as many as three or more) as I suspect, they are equally spaced in orbit and are a considerable distance from ISS.

But in answer to your question, when the NASA camera is on, some, not all, but some of the video is probably faked. I mean this is a big secret. They aren't going to be letting the cat out of the bag so easily.

I go to a forum where many amature astronomers go and post there photos. They always have new photos. One of the members is always photographing the ISS and Shuttle when it's in orbit. He's never spotted a SSS yet.

To what extent do you think he has looked?

I wouldn't underestimate them. I'm surprised you and the others aren't out there every night looking for these things trying to gather some actual evidence on your own.

Actually I only figured this out a couple of weeks ago. Give me a break!

Technical expertise required on the secret space station.

And you know this how?

I believe they need techincal expertise because I believe O'Toole was correct when he proposed his corollary to Murphy's Law which was: Murphy was an optimist.

Or, you could go and look over the footage and photos from the mission and check for yourself insted of just making wild speculation. Oh but of course it could all have been faked before hand anyway, so why bother?

For once we agree.

Out of everyone I have discussed this with in chat, not a single one says that you’re claim holds a drop of water. Out of the several U2U’s I have received about this thread, not a single one says that they agree with your position. Out of all the astronomy guys who replied to me, not a single one thinks I should even bother with trying to explain the reality to your group.

So who exactly is agreeing with this theory anymore besides the three or four of you from livingmoon.com?

[edit on 9/4/2007 by defcon5]

Hello, I would like to step forward and say I am one of those people. I do not know any of them personally, but after much reading and research I do belive they have more than just a "drop" of water sir.
The tone you use is somewhat disrespectful, when reading between the lines. I am no expert, yet I am not an easy person to convince either.

Let put it this way if they have space stations that they can inflate and put in space, you dont think they have anything else up there? Oh right, only what we are told about gotcha.. That seems much more far fetched to me than the ladder sir.
Heres a little something to consider..
Private space stations

Just with that link alone, I think should tell you they might have stuff out there you dont know about??

And just to add, I dont think they want to make those into "hotels"
But places to go if something happens on planet earth.. I wont go any further than that.. But they have stuff up there, and making plans..

Thus you ask who stands with them.. Well I do.. And proudly.. I have no shame in keeping an open mind..