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Can anyone verify this claim I keep running across?

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posted on Aug, 19 2007 @ 10:51 AM
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Wherever there is F-22 info, there is an F-22 hater. I have seen this quote posted several times, and naturally I am skeptical. Can anyone verify it?

"There was little suprise that Typhoon, with its world-class agility and high off-boresight missile capability was able to dominate "Within Visual Range" flight but the aircraft did cause a suprise by getting a radar lock on the F22 at a suprisingly long rate. The F-22s cried off, claiming that they were "unstealthed" anyway, although the next day´s scheduled two vs. two BWR engagement was canceled, and "the USAF decided they didn´t want to play any more ."

Source: "internatinal AIR POWER REVIEW" - year 2006, issue 20, page 45. - ISNB: 1-880588-91-9 (casebound) or ISBN: 1473-9917.




posted on Aug, 19 2007 @ 12:08 PM
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the issue is that no one can verify it - `dozer` will say the aircraft had the `unstealth` markers on so it wasn`t true - whilst the RAF aircrew will say `BS - it was full stealth and we found a way`

so , realistically there isn`t a way of proving or disproving what they said.



posted on Aug, 19 2007 @ 12:37 PM
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Originally posted by BlackWidow23
Wherever there is F-22 info, there is an F-22 hater. I have seen this quote posted several times, and naturally I am skeptical. Can anyone verify it?

"There was little suprise that Typhoon, with its world-class agility and high off-boresight missile capability was able to dominate "Within Visual Range" flight but the aircraft did cause a suprise by getting a radar lock on the F22 at a suprisingly long rate. The F-22s cried off, claiming that they were "unstealthed" anyway, although the next day´s scheduled two vs. two BWR engagement was canceled, and "the USAF decided they didn´t want to play any more ."

Source: "internatinal AIR POWER REVIEW" - year 2006, issue 20, page 45. - ISNB: 1-880588-91-9 (casebound) or ISBN: 1473-9917.



But we'd need to know a helluva lot more about the engagement parameters etc.

While Westy et al would like to believe the LPI radar is license to emit away, I don't believe so, and if the F-22 was up and active, the EF getting a passive RWR fix would not surprise me in the slightest.

If the F-22 was passive, and the EF was beating the bushes, then I would be very surprised. Maybe it was a PIRATE lock



posted on Aug, 19 2007 @ 12:38 PM
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Going to be hard to prove.

However, the F-117 and I imagine the F-22 have the ability to degrade thier stealth signatures. Im not sure exactly how, but with the F-117 requireing mm tolerances to keep its low observable signatures intact it could be as simple as raising a reflect up a bit. The reason is for flight safety during non combat operations.



posted on Aug, 19 2007 @ 01:42 PM
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I am less curious about HOW it happened.

I am more curious about IF it happened. As far as I know this was never reported on either side.

If this really happened, why wasnt there a big report about it in the UK?



posted on Aug, 19 2007 @ 02:08 PM
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Originally posted by Harlequin
the issue is that no one can verify it - `dozer` will say the aircraft had the `unstealth` markers on so it wasn`t true...


Actually "Dozer" said that to his knowledge no DACT had ever taken place between the Raptor and Typhoon. He also said to be skeptical of such claims and especially of any "results". No one has yet to identify a credible military or government source to corroborate the claims that the F-22 and Typhoon have flown against or with each other. At the end of the day unless these claims are verified such an exercise never occurred and the claimed "results", whatever they may be, are fictional.

[edit on 19-8-2007 by WestPoint23]



posted on Aug, 19 2007 @ 02:39 PM
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for once i agree westy (and if you look at my post its very much hypothetical and not word of fact)

- as i too have never seen anything official about these 2 types going `head to head` , the last training exercise was about EW setup ; now if the captor tracked the f22 during that then as has *possibly* been said , its not been reported nor is it likely to be.



posted on Aug, 19 2007 @ 04:21 PM
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Yes, verification would be very difficult, if not impossible, for various reasons, not least of which is that fighter pilots, universally, are well practised BS merchants.

One 29 Sqn pilot of my brief acquaintance told me " the F-22 is fabulous, but those boys don't have it all their own way, they just think they do. We have our secrets and ways too".

Now, was he just trying to impress me? Or was it a knowing reference based on something he really knew? I have no way of knowing. What was funny though was how the Typhoon crews regarded a nearby Jaguar pilot as if he was a street beggar living on stale bread by comparison with them, while he looked as if he knew it to be the truth



posted on Aug, 19 2007 @ 04:28 PM
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im douting that a F22 has played war games with a EF200, but RAF radar has tracked stealth planes before, it happend when the B2 was ment to make a flyover at an airshow but the pulled out as one of the active demo's of a BAE SAM system had got a posative lock from a range of 20mils, i had a little chuckle to my self when i read it



posted on Aug, 19 2007 @ 08:35 PM
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Originally posted by talon
im douting that a F22 has played war games with a EF200, but RAF radar has tracked stealth planes before, it happend when the B2 was ment to make a flyover at an airshow but the pulled out as one of the active demo's of a BAE SAM system had got a posative lock from a range of 20mils, i had a little chuckle to my self when i read it


Please give the name of the SAM system and if possible a source.I think I know what you're referring to but please post a source if you have one if not a reference would be fine.



posted on Aug, 20 2007 @ 02:19 AM
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Originally posted by talon
im douting that a F22 has played war games with a EF200, but RAF radar has tracked stealth planes before, it happend when the B2 was ment to make a flyover at an airshow but the pulled out as one of the active demo's of a BAE SAM system had got a posative lock from a range of 20mils, i had a little chuckle to my self when i read it



Yeah i remember this story being in the UK media shortly after it happened ( was it the farnborough airshow?) i remember the USAF makeing a few statement's about how it couldn't have happened and then everything went quiet .



posted on Aug, 20 2007 @ 02:43 AM
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it was a rapier system that tracked it - BUT it was within wvr (rapier is not a bvr system) - but it track it on automatic mode.



posted on Aug, 20 2007 @ 04:10 AM
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Originally posted by waynos

What was funny though was how the Typhoon crews regarded a nearby Jaguar pilot as if he was a street beggar living on stale bread by comparison with them, while he looked as if he knew it to be the truth




Now that is mighty harsh on the Jag pilot!



posted on Aug, 20 2007 @ 05:26 AM
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Originally posted by Daedalus3

Now that is mighty harsh on the Jag pilot!


Its also quite amusing, considering that Jaguar pilots are the predominant pilots being converted to the Eurofighter - the bulk of EF2000 pilots will be from Jaguars for the next few years!



posted on Aug, 20 2007 @ 07:56 AM
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reply to post by WestPoint23
 


Hsa the typhoon even been on US soil long enough for an engagement?



posted on Aug, 20 2007 @ 09:36 AM
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Originally posted by Harlequin
the issue is that no one can verify it - `dozer` will say the aircraft had the `unstealth` markers on so it wasn`t true - whilst the RAF aircrew will say `BS - it was full stealth and we found a way`

so , realistically there isn`t a way of proving or disproving what they said.

Who knows what happend???
For one thing though you have to be pretty stupid to believe that stealth cannot be detected.
There have many incidents where B2's and F-117's have been detected on radar and IR.



posted on Aug, 20 2007 @ 12:23 PM
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reply to post by RichardPrice
 



That may have been the root of it Richard, they already had their new toy to play with



posted on Aug, 20 2007 @ 12:54 PM
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Originally posted by Canada_EH
Hsa the typhoon even been on US soil long enough for an engagement?


Yes, Typhoons have been stationed at Nellis AFB before for flight test purposes, for the RAF that is. Nellis is one of the biggest weapons and test ranges in the world. The 422nd TES stationed at Nellis also operates a small fleet of F-22A Raptors which are used for training, testing and developing tactics.

Here is the infamous picture...



Now when asked about this "Dozer" confirmed the picture as authentic. However he stated that the Typhoon(s) and the Raptors were never airborne at the same time. This is not uncommon, despite what many may think the USAF strictly regulates these types of engagements, i.e. foreign jets against US ones. As I said before Nellis is a huge base with units form all over the world frequently stopping by, and flying against the F-22 is not an extra perk. The Typhoon has not yet participated in a Red Flag, the only way it could have flow with the Raptor, and even then they would be on the same Blue Force.



posted on Aug, 20 2007 @ 03:10 PM
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reply to post by WestPoint23
 


As far as I know there was a quote by I think Dozer or one of the leads on the F-22 programe who has flown both aircraft. It wasn't vary detailed and it used the common comparison about the Typhoons killer manuverbility and the F-22 God like view of the battle field.



posted on Aug, 20 2007 @ 03:21 PM
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"Dozer" has never flown in a Typhoon, the only person I can think of, besides USAF and RAF exchange pilots, is Gen. John P. Jumper (Ret). And his comments are neither specific or encouraging, for the Typhoon community that is.




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