Originally posted by Muaddib
Is the "death penalty" the issue of this thread?....

Or is the issue the fact that the iranian regime is executing people it accuses of formenting "soft revolutions" as well as 16 year old girls who have a sharp mouth?.....

The issue is weather or not the recently hanged had ties to the US-until I see evidence of this,it is only speculation/counter propaganda by the Iranian Gov,who for whatever reason seems to want a confrontation with the USA.
The people hanged could have been involved in anything-but the "helping the US to destabilise iran" may just be the appropriate spin the Iranians wish to portray.
If they had solid evidence,they would have broadcast it IMO-like the two incidents when they captured Brits in the waterways.

Originally posted by Souljah
And that exactly is your problem, dude.

Really? Well now, it seems I owe you a debt of gratitude then Souljah. I've been trying to figure that out for years, thank you for enlightening me .

Interesting replies.

So if an Iranian stands up and accuses the US of being evil because of its Human Rights Record, the fact that it uses the Death Penalty and the fact that it carried out a completley unprovoked attack against a sovereign nation then they'd be perfectly justified in their opinion I guess?

Fact is this - Iran is a soverign nation. Like it or not - and I admit to thinking that they're going over the top with this stuff - its THEIR call what they do in THEIR country, applying THEIR laws and THEIR justice system. What they are doing may indeed not be fair, and if the people of the country think that is the case there will be a change in power because they will bring it about themselves in one form or another.

People here seem to forget that Iran is not the USA. It has different laws, different customs and different values.

It just so happens that Iran is percieved to be the bogeyman right now. What bothers me is what happens when the warmongers are through with this bogeyman. Who is next in line because they are "too different" ?

seeingevil, some people have the motto of "Feel free to derail every thread into a hate bashing and blaming of U.S. threads, and we don't want any form of common sense around"....

and tell us neformore how many of the so called "warmongers" in this thread are calling to nuke Iran over this?....

Shall we ask the original poster of this thread if his intention was for "the U.S. to nuke Iran over this"?......

Maybe the original poster of this thread wanted to discuss the Death Penalty of the United States by posting this thread....

[edit on 20-8-2007 by Muaddib]

Originally posted by Muaddib
and tell us neformore how many of the so called "warmongers" in this thread are calling to nuke Iran over this?....

Shall we ask the original poster of this thread if his intention was for "the U.S. to nuke Iran over this"?......

[edit on 20-8-2007 by Muaddib]

Who mentioned nuking? I don't think I did, did I? hmmm.....looks up....nope....

Not sure where you are coming from with that one. Try again old chap, you've left the rails there.

i find ironic that some of the same members who have been calling for an uprising, in no other country than the U.S. and even in England are now claiming it is ok for Iran to execute those Iranians they accuse of formenting a soft revolution.....

Was anyone talking about naivetivity and arrogance?....

Originally posted by neformore

Who mentioned nuking? I don't think I did, did I? hmmm.....looks up....nope....

Not sure where you are coming from with that one. Try again old chap, you've left the rails there.

how about going to war.... You mentioned "the warmongers"...

Can you show us who is calling for us to go to war with Iran in this thread over this?....

Muaddib, how I have missed you...

Again, what is the difference between hanging people because they talk against their governments, and hanging 16 year old girls for "having a sharp mouth" and seeking the death penalty for murderers?....

there is no difference, all are entitled to the same human rights.

If you are a victim of a murder, your death certificate states

cause of death: homicide

When you are executed by the state, it reads;

cause of death: homicide

what's the difference?

Infinite...sorry to say that "commondreams" is not exactly reliable in my book...

the story was also in the British independent newspaper too, and it's a mainstream paper...like to point that out. So, it's reliable

sadly, you are wrong.

But i guess it is ok to derail this thread into "The U.S. has the death penalty, so it is ok for Iran to execute people because they are accused by the Iranian regime, without presenting any evidence to support this, of formenting "soft revolutions"......

No, stop twisting words (again).

It's called pointing out the hypocritical stance of some members who are crying murder in Iran, but are not criticizing the death penalty system in their own country.

I clearly pointed out in my first post that I was against the death penalty in ALL cases, so don't try and make me out to point the Iranian regime, got it?

Can I ask you a question Muaddib?

Do you support and justify the death penalty?

Originally posted by Muaddib
i find ironic that some of the same members who have been calling for an uprising, in no other country than the U.S. and even in England are now claiming it is ok for Iran to execute those Iranians they accuse of formenting a soft revolution.....

Was anyone talking about naivetivity and arrogance?....

I don`t think anyone can claim anything of the sort unless we can establish if there is any EVIDENCE of the Iranian position that these people were connected to some kind of US operations in Iran.
No evidence has been provided of this so far..

Originally posted by infinite

Can I ask you a question Muaddib?

Do you support and justify the death penalty?

infinite...unfortunately the "topic of this thread is not the death penalty"....despite the tries of several members doing this....

Again, you and some others, can't see it because of your hatred against the United States which is evident, want to derail every thread into a "lets hate and bash the United States....

I think it is clear by now, at least to some, that as long as the United States government is bashed and blamed for anything, even if it has nothing to do with that thread, this is allowed and it is not derailing a thread at least in the eyes of some....

Originally posted by Silcone Synapse

I don`t think anyone can claim anything of the sort unless we can establish if there is any EVIDENCE of the Iranian position that these people were connected to some kind of US operations in Iran.
No evidence has been provided of this so far..

Silcone, the thing is that apparently for some of the members the mere claim from the Iranian government that these people were trying to forment a soft revolution, that it is ok for the Iranian regime to execute them meanwhile they continuously derail the thread, and go completely off topic to bash and blame the United States...

[edit on 20-8-2007 by Muaddib]

Originally posted by Muaddib
how about going to war.... You mentioned "the warmongers"...

Can you show us who is calling for us to go to war with Iran in this thread over this?....

Nope, because no one has.

It was a general observation you see, a kind of social commentary, for want of a better thing.

But hey, you carry on nitpicking about one aspect of my post - that way when you berate people for being off-topic, we can all look and see how good you are at it after all.

Originally posted by Muaddib
infinite...unfortunately the "topic of this thread is not the death penalty"....despite the tries of several members doing this....

Again, you and some others, can't see it because of your hatred against the United States which is evident, want to derail every thread into a "lets hate and bash the United States....

I think it is clear by now, at least to some, that as long as the United States government is bashed and blamed for anything, even if it has nothing to do with that thread, this is allowed and it is not derailing a thread at least in the eyes of some....

No, answer the question.
I mean, if you support it, then why are you damning Iran and ignoring the death penalty across the world? especially in Cuba, which I believe you are from. Cuba has a shocking record of human rights and political freedom.

I mean, in your opinion, Cuba is much worse than Iran right?

Surely we should be seeking an international ban on the death penalty? it's the only way we can sort the problem without being declared bias towards certain countries.

Btw, i have to address this...

isn't about time you grow up? telling members to "stop bashing the US" is getting abit old now yeah? It's been your favourite words ever since you joined ATS. Just because you don't like my opinion, no need to accuse me hating America. Do I accuse you of hating Europe when you say something I don't like? No, of course I don't.





[edit on 20-8-2007 by infinite]

There is no use.....

Some people can't see beyond their own nose when they derail threads just because they hate one country in specific....and then when common sense is called upon, like this thread is not about the death sentence.... people are told to grow up....

Some should really follow their own advice and grow the heck up...

infinite and souljah.... the question actually should be...

Do you agree that people should be executed just for the Iranian government claiming these people were formenting a soft revolution?....

That's what the real question on this thread should be......

I don't agree with that claim...how about you two who have on occasion formented soft revolutions, and in the case of souljah have even formented violent revolution?......


[edit on 20-8-2007 by Muaddib]

Originally posted by neformore

Nope, because no one has.

It was a general observation you see, a kind of social commentary, for want of a better thing.

But hey, you carry on nitpicking about one aspect of my post - that way when you berate people for being off-topic, we can all look and see how good you are at it after all.

Oh, i see... a general observation... and tell us...which "warmongers" in this thread are using this specific thread to go to war with Iran?.... BTW, you do know what the term "warmonger" means right?....

Originally posted by Muaddib
infinite and souljah.... the question actually should be...

Do you agree that people should be executed just for the Iranian government claiming these people were formenting a soft revolution?....

That's what the real question on this thread should be......

I do not agree with death penalty in general.

No they should not be executed for speaking out.

Yet that is not the ONLY country with this problem.

That was my point.

That Iran is not the epicenter of all EVIL on the basis, that they have death pentaly. If that is so, then countries like China, Saudi Arabia and United States are also EVIL, since they all practice the ultimate penalty. I am well aware of what you are trying to do here - point finger at Iran. But if you want to point fingers, then point it at yourself too.

[edit on 20/8/07 by Souljah]

Ok,no evidence so far of US involvement with these particular 30 people so I pose this question-

Lets Imagine that the Adam gehlan/pearleman character (the so called US AQ member who makes videos endorsing terror in the USA)is captured in America.
Would he not face the possibility of the death penalty?
As there is evidence of his crimes on video,I would suggest that he would be executed,not before a nice long holiday in Cuba of course.

So,IF(and only IF)the Iranians have evidence of these 30 planning/acting on behalf of the USA,then as a sovereign nation Iran could try, and punish them under their laws.

Same thing,different country I think.So to demonise only Iran for something both countries would do is flawed logic I think.