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I confess: I burned flags.

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posted on Jan, 16 2004 @ 01:30 AM
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Enomus has 1 bad ass avatar!

sorry just had to say it!




posted on Jan, 16 2004 @ 04:45 AM
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It's really no big deal--I would never do it but I understand folk that do. America has issues with the way we relate to each other not only the world, so the protesting few will always have issues to protest, and if they wanna light up the stars and stripes so be it...i don't think it'll change a thing...like someone already said, it's mostly a symbolic act.

Protesting and flag burning is harmless. Not nearly evil enough to trot out the big words.

Mephistophelean...riiiight. Now, where did i put that thesaurus?



posted on Jan, 16 2004 @ 05:27 AM
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Yup buring flags is nothing. It's not like Katherine Harris that keeps a box of unprocessed 2000 Al Gore votes in her bathroom for toilet paper.

Now that's mephostophilian.



posted on Jan, 16 2004 @ 09:59 AM
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I'm positive that our government is corrupt, but I'm not so sure they even know it. I think of the flag as a symbol of our rights. I dislike the fact that people burn flags, but if they really want to, that's their choice. I don't think it should be outlawed, but I do think people should rethink what they are doing.

I think of the flag as a symbol of the people and their rights. The government doesn't even enter my mind. If there was ever a revolution against our government and I supported it, I would fly the flag, not burn it.



posted on Jan, 16 2004 @ 06:32 PM
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Good for you man, there is nothing more sickening than patriotism.

Burn a 1000 flags for all I care, who gives a sh*t?
If someone does then you've got some f*cked up priorities.



posted on Jan, 16 2004 @ 07:30 PM
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Originally posted by joehayner
I'm positive that our government is corrupt, but I'm not so sure they even know it. I think of the flag as a symbol of our rights. I dislike the fact that people burn flags, but if they really want to, that's their choice. I don't think it should be outlawed, but I do think people should rethink what they are doing.

I think of the flag as a symbol of the people and their rights. The government doesn't even enter my mind. If there was ever a revolution against our government and I supported it, I would fly the flag, not burn it.


i believe 'they' do know they're corrupt, how do you lie, cheat and steal and not be aware of it? i'm just asking for a kiss every now and then before they bend me over and do me dirty.


as to your second comment, i wish i felt the same. what exactly has america done to be so proud of in its past or present? we practically killed off a whole race of native american people to get the land, then enslaved another race to build this global superpower that's produced one of the laziest, shallow and probably most wasteful societies ever know to man. hurray for us!

for the moron who's about to type how much better it is here than some third-world country,,,please don't. if that's the best argument you can muster, try harder.

wooo, i'm on a roll tonight!



posted on Jan, 16 2004 @ 08:29 PM
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How should I start this out?

I'm an active duty Marine, so I of course would never burn an Amreican flag; as a result of my personal beliefs I'm not sure I would burn another nation's flag. Generally when we kick some nation's ass, its because of a minority who doesn't do what the pres wants, not the whole nation. And burning a national flag, no matter whose, is an affront to each citizen of that nation who cherishes thier flag. Its a symbol they can rally behind in times of spiritual/physical hardship, not neccisarily as the poster-child of everything corrupt in that system of government. If that were so, virtually every nation of the world would be flying flags of #e, in various shades, tetures, odors, and sizes. But seriously, a flag only means as much as you feel about it, when you get down to the nitty gritty. Someone who perhaps doesn't understand the good things they are afforded in this country, or simply doesn't feel strongly for their country's original purpose in things.

I say original purpose for a very good reason. If you're not happy with the way things are going, and you want to see the nation bettered, look to the flag for a boost when you don't kow why you're trying at all. To be honest with you, I don't like a lot about the way this great natio of ours is run, but I refuse to take a defeatist's attitude in all this. With every breath, I will try to improve the way things are done around me, and point those around me to the way our forefathers intended. But if you want to burn my flag, I'll still defend you, even from other citizens. Its still your right, no matter how much I object to it.



posted on Jan, 16 2004 @ 10:00 PM
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A flag only has power if you give it power.

Authority is an illusion in the mind of govenors - Lao Tse



posted on Jan, 17 2004 @ 03:17 AM
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Rather than burning the flag, try this ...



Dubya Toilet Paper



posted on Jan, 17 2004 @ 02:12 PM
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*smacks himself in the head with a trout.*



posted on Jan, 17 2004 @ 04:01 PM
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people throw rocks through windows in protest. is this acceptable? if not why not? its another form of protest is it not? if we prevent people from doing so couldnt they say we are trampling their right of free speech as they feel this is their form of protest?


people over turn cars in protest. is this acceptable? if not why not? its another form of protest is it not? if we prevent people from doing this couldnt they say we are trampling their right of free speech as they feel this is their form of protest?


people even beat and assault others in protest. is this acceptable? if not why not? its another form of protest is it not? if we prevent people from doing this couldnt they say we are trampling their right of free speech as they feel this is their form of protest?

while to some its ok to set things on fire in protest, why are other things simply viewed as intolerable? its another form of protest is it not? because YOU say so? hmm well if we used that logic because others say we shouldnt be able to burn the flag then it shouldnt be allowed.

isnt purposely setting fire to something considered arson? thats illegal the last time i checked.

we have the right to PEACEABLY assemble to protest. not destroy things burn things beat people and act like soccer hooligans.

i dont think burning anything in protest whether its the american flag or a mcdonalds paper cup should be tolerated by any means.

at some point you simply have to say "this is too much" and outlining what that means. i think setting anything on fire to protest is going "too far". next people will want a free pass to beat up others or to destroy property because they feel thats the only way they can protest.



posted on Jan, 17 2004 @ 04:24 PM
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This dumbazz got his





posted on Jan, 17 2004 @ 05:05 PM
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Originally posted by ThePrankMonkey
people throw rocks through windows in protest. is this acceptable? if not why not? its another form of protest is it not? if we prevent people from doing so couldnt they say we are trampling their right of free speech as they feel this is their form of protest?

people over turn cars in protest. is this acceptable? if not why not? its another form of protest is it not? if we prevent people from doing this couldnt they say we are trampling their right of free speech as they feel this is their form of protest?

No it isn't acceptable. Why? Because it is destroying another person's property. Burning a flag has symbolic value, that's why you do it. What's so symbolic about breaking a window or overturning a car?

people even beat and assault others in protest. is this acceptable? if not why not? its another form of protest is it not? if we prevent people from doing this couldnt they say we are trampling their right of free speech as they feel this is their form of protest?

PM, you keep listing examples that do not relate to the act of burning your own flag on your own property. You should be free to exercise your rights if they do not impose upon anothers rights, I believe thats the way the law goes.

while to some its ok to set things on fire in protest, why are other things simply viewed as intolerable? its another form of protest is it not? because YOU say so? hmm well if we used that logic because others say we shouldnt be able to burn the flag then it shouldnt be allowed.

People are entitled to their own opinions, why do you think I would burn a flag? For fun?

isnt purposely setting fire to something considered arson? thats illegal the last time i checked.

I'm not trying to be fraudulent and call the insurance company for burning my own flag. I paid for it and I will burn it on a location that is private. Even if I did not, I'm not burning anyone elses property.

we have the right to PEACEABLY assemble to protest. not destroy things burn things beat people and act like soccer hooligans.

Nobody said anything about beating people and acting like "soccer hooligans." You are sounding ridiculous.

i dont think burning anything in protest whether its the american flag or a mcdonalds paper cup should be tolerated by any means.

Fair enough, that's your opinion. But your opinion is not superior to mine or anyone elses, so I ask you to stop belittling me and likening me to "soccer hooligans" and other ridiculous protesters.

at some point you simply have to say "this is too much" and outlining what that means. i think setting anything on fire to protest is going "too far". next people will want a free pass to beat up others or to destroy property because they feel thats the only way they can protest.

You are extreme to say the least. Burning a flag does not impose upon anyone elses rights, it does not harm anyone nor does it "go too far." I believe going too far would be affecting someone else with your means of protest and this is something flag burning simply does not do. If you don't like it, ignore it.



posted on Jan, 17 2004 @ 05:13 PM
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people throw rocks through windows in protest. is this acceptable? if not why not? its another form of protest is it not? if we prevent people from doing so couldnt they say we are trampling their right of free speech as they feel this is their form of protest?


people over turn cars in protest. is this acceptable? if not why not? its another form of protest is it not? if we prevent people from doing this couldnt they say we are trampling their right of free speech as they feel this is their form of protest?

people even beat and assault others in protest. is this acceptable? if not why not? its another form of protest is it not? if we prevent people from doing this couldnt they say we are trampling their right of free speech as they feel this is their form of protest?

while to some its ok to set things on fire in protest, why are other things simply viewed as intolerable? its another form of protest is it not? because YOU say so? hmm well if we used that logic because others say we shouldnt be able to burn the flag then it shouldnt be allowed.


i don't say this often, but that was just plain dumb. how are you going to compare burning a flag as a form of protest to destruction of public property or physical violence? unless you're trying to group all flag burners with common criminals...wouldn't that be convenient.

i'll add, if people want to throw rocks through their own windows, over-turn their own cars or smack themselves around as a form of protest, more power to them!


we have the right to PEACEABLY assemble to protest. not destroy things burn things beat people and act like soccer hooligans.


now somehow everyone who burns a flag is a violent soccer hooligans?!


maybe, as an example, you should read the original post in this thread. you know, the one with the guy who JUST BURNED A FLAG as a form of protest...he didn't break any windows, he didn't over-turn any cars and he didnt beat anyone up.



posted on Jan, 17 2004 @ 05:23 PM
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Originally posted by enomus
maybe, as an example, you should read the original post in this thread. you know, the one with the guy who JUST BURNED A FLAG as a form of protest...he didn't break any windows, he didn't over-turn any cars and he didnt beat anyone up.


Thanks enomus, I was beginning to question whether or not I really was a stain on the socially acceptable table cloth.

Anyone remember the Chinese Buddhist monk who lit himself on fire to protest. Maybe PM would prefer that flag burners resorted to that, I wouldn't doubt it.



posted on Jan, 17 2004 @ 09:47 PM
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my point is very simple.

at what point is it protest and when is it unacceptable?

seems you all want to draw your own line according to what YOU want to do.

while you view it as symbolic of your anger over (insert politicians name here) the flag isnt a symbol of that politician or their party, it is the country's symbol,not the governments. burn dollar bills if you want to protest the government, burn your W-2's. burn the tag off your matress or your driver's license. those are from the government.


i see you all missed my point in my previous post so i'm going to flat out say it. while YOU think its ok to burn something (BTW arson doesnt mean making a false insurance claim it means burning anything where you're not suppose to) why bother to stop anyone from doing anything because they feel they can do it?

destruction of someone elses property? well i have news for you the flag isnt just yours, the country isnt just yours. the flag symbolically belongs to every american citizen and you symbolically burning symbolically shows american people you dont have any respect for anything in this world that even remotely belongs to anyone else.


i'm still going to say that burning a flag (an illegal act under arson laws) is really no different than breaking windows or beating someone up (bascially rioting). why arent they the same? people have felt highly justified, even righteous doing those things in protest of something they didnt agree with. if they didnt think they were ok why else would they have done them? why is it ok for you and not them? you each have your own opinion, why cant they do as they please as you do?




No it isn't acceptable. Why? Because it is destroying another person's property. Burning a flag has symbolic value, that's why you do it. What's so symbolic about breaking a window or overturning a car?


whats symbolic about it? it shows their anger and hatred over something. the same thing when you burn a flag. instead of using a more civilized way of vocalizing your opinion you do something childish and set fire to something. you destroying a flag that doesnt belong to just you is equally wrong. its public property.




PM, you keep listing examples that do not relate to the act of burning your own flag on your own property. You should be free to exercise your rights if they do not impose upon anothers rights, I believe thats the way the law goes.


and i'm sure there are laws about you burning things on your own property. (there are here) did you consult with the local law enforcement agency to make sure you were not going to be in violation? i'm betting no.




People are entitled to their own opinions


yes they are, which is why some people actually riot sometimes, they think its ok in their own opinion. but you say its wrong. but you tell me i cant tell you what you do is wrong. hmmm...its not ok for me to say you burning a flag is not ok but you saying someone else destroying property in protest is wrong IS ok.

that makes perfect sense! in bizzaro world.




now somehow everyone who burns a flag is a violent soccer hooligans?!


well thats what soccer hooligans do when things dont go their way, burn things. right? surely you've seen people riot at a soccer match when their team loses, the stadium gets torched in protest. why isnt that acceptable? because its not a flag? why not? they're angry and mad too. why cant they burn what they want?


if you really haten the country so much you're going to burn the symbol of the nation then move. no this isnt a "well yoo ought 2 move if you hate 'merica so much" BS speech but if you're THIS unhappy with the country then move. if you get the wrong order you send it back, if you live in a bad neighborhood you move, if your car gives you too many problems you get another one. simple concept, move if you're so miserable and unhappy with the country that the only thing you feel you can do to be heard or noticed is to burn something. you seem genuinely unhappy with this country. you obviously have found not one redeeming quality to it so you burned the flag, why bother staying somewhere you're obviously miserable?

what happens if you're married but unhappy in your marriage? have your ring melted down in protest but stay married?

seriously, if you're burning things because you have some serious issues with this country then maybe this country isnt for you. just rather amusing to see someone hiding behind a right given to them by this country whilst they burn the symbol of this nation in a "symbolic" form of protest to show how much you hate the country.

you couldnt make less sense if you had to.



posted on Jan, 17 2004 @ 09:52 PM
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grasping, straws, etc.



posted on Jan, 17 2004 @ 10:10 PM
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Yeah I don't like the country, you're absolutely correct. Just give me a few more years and I'm out 'cause I'm still in school. I can't believe you are saying that if you are unhappy with something you just move. If your car doesnt work, you fix it. You don't automatically go out and get another one.

Burning the flag draws attention to your cause. People find it shocking and out of the norm. When questioned why you're burning the flag, you can let others in on your concern and hopefully spark some compassion. It's not about disdain for a politician, more for disdain for an entire nation. A nation is nothing without its organizational body and that you can protest, it is your duty as a citizen. You don't just roll over, accept or move!

In terms of drawing the line between what's right and what's wrong, I draw it before my actions impact someone else. When I burn the flag, I'm not affecting anyone. I draw this line at material things. My flag, that I buy at walmart for instance, is MY flag.

The fact that it represents the people too is trivial based upon ones own viewpoint. A soccer hooligan burns things that do not belong to him, legally and materially. And by the way I asked a police officer just last friday whether or not it was illegal to destroy your own property and he said "of course not."

Burning a flag is childish? Possibly, but its more of an act of a prodigy because there is meaning behind it. Do not compare the act of burning the flag to rioting. The actions are so completely different I think everyone can see it except you.



posted on Jan, 18 2004 @ 08:59 PM
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I dare say that if I ever witnessed a person burning the American flag.... I fear that I could not be responsible for my actions! Anyone who does burn the American flag should be deported.


tr

posted on Jan, 19 2004 @ 10:46 AM
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But the flag burning amendment is disgusting. Alot of people are making a big deal of flag burning. There are those who cannot overcome the United States by force, so they attempt to overcome through our fears. Our constitution is represented by the flag; our flag is not represented by the constitution. Respect for the flag without an even greater respect for the constitution is hollow patriotism.

I have never burned the flag, but I do see grave problems confronting the nation. The patriot act perhaps should be called the anti-constitution act. I have heard the constitution referred to as the constipation. Yes , it stops the passage of odorous malcontents.

I think the answer might be to market a flag that are the reverse image of the colors. White stripes and stars become black, red stripes becomes yellow, blue becomes red. You know, the optical illusion flag found in textbooks. The one that, if stared at long enough allows you to see the correct image colors when you close your eyes. Perhaps with a 666 written across it . This flag would represent corruption and darkness, and secrecy, and corporate wrongdoing. It would be a flag we could all burn.



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