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Concepts of "NWO" and "Illuminati" flawed..

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posted on Jan, 15 2004 @ 02:44 PM
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Hello,

I came across this forum as I was looking into some research materials regarding the NWO, Illuminati, current events etc..

Needless to say, I was impressed to find an open forum that seemed to actively discuss these topics. I have spent the last 4 hours reading the first 2.5 pages of posts here and noticed the following:

It seems that many people have a flawed concept of the "nefarious organizations". They have the lingo down correctly "NWO" "Illuminati" "CFR" "Trilateral " etc etc... But it seems that some are missing exactly what these are, who represents them, and underlying motives behind these persons/organizations.

I saw statements such as "Well I live in the U.S., and if I want to go to dinner, I go. If I want to see a Movie, I can. I've never had to kill a member of the illuminati..."
or
"What will you do when you're invaded?" was asked, and someone replied "Nobody would think of invading America"

These types of flawed statements went virtually unchallenged for the most part. So I just wanted to put my two cents out here, say hello, and hopefully get people thinking/ give them some more clear concepts to think about. So, here it goes...

What is the "New World Order"? Is it a government? Is it a group of people? Is it a religious system? Is it an ecomomic template? Is it even real?

Well, it's all of those things. The term "New World Order" is a general term that is used to describe a number of items that(much like a jigsaw), fit together to make up a structure of Global Governence, under the control of a very elite group of individuals, who are aided in this task(by means of persuasion, or cohersion) by many many individuals(by their own acts or omissions), who either cooperate knowingly, unknowingly, or the worst of all -Happily Knowingly).

So the next piece of the puzzle would be.. What is the "Illuminati"?

The Illuminati are a group of *very* elite individuals who, for many many years, have sought to usher in a New World Order. They are the puppet masters, operating behind the scenes in practically every aspect of life. Steering a course for humanity via their minions.

How Elite is the Illuminati? In a word, *VERY*
Bloodlines are extremely important to these persons. The core of which comprise of 13 bloodlines from antiquity. This is the cortex of the illuminati's presence. You cannot simply "join" the illuminati, not at this level of power, it just doesn't happen.

Then there are the minions. People which live lavishly and in what SEEMS to be positions of true power, postions that the average "sheeple" would consider to be "Powerful". These individuals are not normally part of the original 13 bloodlines, but still some of the Top postions will hold blodline dear(like the Bush family for instance). These people hold many different postions in both politics and the private sector, from such things as President of the Uniteed States or Sec Gen of the United Nations or High Ranking member of the Military of a particular nation or International organization or a Highly influencial Religious figurehead. To seemingly lower postions of power and influence such ase a CEO or VP of a company, a Record industry Producer, or a Chief of police or member of the BAR association(judges of various seats or prosecutorial or defense council).

Ok so you have the basic top structure of this pyramid pretty well outlined, but your next thought is: "Sure these are evenly distributed individuals, but still, they don't have "absolute control", is there a group that helps them?

Certainly, many individuals at lower postions help out the "NWO Agenda" on a daily basis. These individuals fall into 2 different categories:

1.Those who know they are helping in some capacity to accomplish different higher level agendas although at this far down on the food chain, they're not totally sure what it is, but they do know that it is secret, and they know that by aiding their "superiors" they can garnish recognition, favors, and perhaps a chance to "move up the ladder as well".

2. Those who are helping this agenda come to fruition in some capacity on a daily basis, yet don't know they are helping any one particular cause while involved. These people are the worst off in many ways, as they are required to execute their daily tasks, which in some manner help the NWO, yet all the while have no idea of thier jobs true goals, and get none of the appreciation or advancement that the first category has available to them.

Then there's us, the common man. Looked down upon by almost all of the above collaborators, we are considered to be a "Mindless Flock", we are literally considered by these people to be "fair game" or "prey". They care not for our woes or suffering, they rule us to have us pust forth and use our strength, skills, and fortitude against ourselves. We, when complacent and servile to them, we are our own destroyers. They manipulate us, divide us, and keep us week, spread apart, and therefore servile.

As you can see, this network is very extensive. These individuals, the elites, and to a lesser extent their higher minions, have at a very long time and many trials to perfect their system. Exposing these individuals and this power structure is not easy, but we all must understand this basic information as it is key to survival.

The first rule of any encounter is "Know Your Foe!".

Now this was just a primer, as it seems that some don't quite understand what exactly we're up against here. And it is of the utmost importance that we all understand. There are many things that were not covered in this article, and while I hope to write further on here for any who are interested, remember that only you need to take the initiative in order to learn more about these systems and start to uncover their weaknesses

Remember their methods:

Ordo Ab Chao - Order through Chaos

We are living in a very very dark time, and it's just more and more darkness on the horizion. I hope there is still a chance of seeing a daybreak, maybe we weill stand, together, and demand it!

Flip




posted on Jan, 15 2004 @ 02:50 PM
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good post,
i think you have a good understanding of the whole NWO/Illuminati network



posted on Jan, 15 2004 @ 02:57 PM
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Thank You


I hope to expand on this. I have put much much time into research, interview and exploration of the depths of this organization, its members (old and new), it's motives and it's tactics. I think humanity is powerful, much more powerful than they'd like us to think we are, on some level they fear us.

Flip



posted on Jan, 15 2004 @ 03:01 PM
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Excellent, well thought-out post, Flipmode. You've done your research well. Hopefully you'll be able to shed light on this subject for those who aren't as well studied. Keep at it.



posted on Jan, 15 2004 @ 03:07 PM
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I am been looking into all Conspiracies i can recently, Spending most of my time. The Illumanti was my very first major one.

You certainly have summed up alot of things about the Illumanti, and i for one know very little about them.

Those Quotes i would hopefully never post. I try not to be arrogant or ignorant, and that qoute wouldn't apply to me because i don't live in the US!

The World is a very twisted place as i have said before, As in Deus Ex Everett said it was all about Intellect, matter how big your Secruity Force is, it's about playing the game right.

[Edited on 15-1-2004 by ProjectIcarus]



posted on Jan, 15 2004 @ 03:11 PM
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An excellent book to read if you're interested in all of this is "Rule By Secrecy" by Jim Marrs. It blew my mind. The craziest thing is it came out and I read it a few months before 9-11. I'm very glad I did. It gave me a completely different and much-needed perspective on how things really work. It's a must read.


[Edited on 19-09-2003 by EastCoastKid]



posted on Jan, 15 2004 @ 03:19 PM
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well being a new person to conspiracies and NWO, etc...

I certainley got a lot from your post, good job


I too hope to start doing some research on this subject, if I can ever find the time....



posted on Jan, 15 2004 @ 03:44 PM
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Great post. Yu know your stuff.


Let me ask you this, though. Is the NWO and the Illuminati really the same group, meaning they share the same goal together, while they may not be alike internally? In other words, is it the Illuminati trying to take over, or is it something as big? Like in Deus Ex, where the NWO was shown as the U.S. government, MJ-12, corporations, and their cronies, not the Illuminati?

I've always believed that in the modern world, it is something other than the Illuminati trying to create the NWO.



posted on Jan, 15 2004 @ 03:45 PM
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What exactly are the Illuminati planning to do?



posted on Jan, 15 2004 @ 03:48 PM
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You mean what are they doing..?



posted on Jan, 15 2004 @ 03:51 PM
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Thanks for all the comments guys. As for my quotes, I tried to get the "essence" of the statements I read, while not using exact quotes as to not "single anyone out" ya know
. I'm all for us, all of us, learning and working together to understand "them".

On a side note "Rule by Secrecy" is an *excellent* book, one of the few truly great, thought provoking ones on the market. Loved the book, as an added bonus, the bibliography is a great place to start when you start hunting down this info for yourself. All the sources cited in Jim's research will lead to more and more information, some harder to find than others, all worth looking at.

Flip



posted on Jan, 15 2004 @ 03:52 PM
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Great post! I'm relatively new to this forum, and I'm glad you posted this information so clearly
thank-you!



posted on Jan, 15 2004 @ 03:53 PM
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Originally posted by elevatedone
well being a new person to conspiracies and NWO, etc...

I certainley got a lot from your post, good job


I too hope to start doing some research on this subject, if I can ever find the time....



If you look into mind control, you'll find a lot of Illuminati-type connections. Here's a good site for you to look at:
www.conspiracyarchive.com...

Happy hunting!



posted on Jan, 15 2004 @ 04:03 PM
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sweatMonicaIdo,

Ok, that['s] a good question. Exactly what I was hoping that [my first] post would provoke.

Don't look at "Illuminati" and "NWO" as two individual entities.

The Illuminati is the organization of people, who work very hard, and have done so for a very long time, to usher in a NWO.

The NWO is not a group, rather it is a system, a structure that these individuals wish to implement.

The Illuminati fall into the "pyramid" type of "chain of command" I outlined, and they encompass many different facets of our society, and are found in every government across the globe.

They control people throughout our society to varying degrees to accomplish different goals. Some willingly work and conspire with them, some have no clue they help at all.

They are a very well oiled machine. They work to change policy in all countries to bring about a "convergience", undermine a nations personal soverignty(p), control the flow of wealth, filter education, undermind personal liberties of the common man, and sculpt religion to fit their model.

That's a brief synopsis, I'll be explaining these further in future posts.

Graemej The above gives a general answer to your question, I'll be illustrating how they have accomplished what they have in the coming posts. And I'll also be going into what they intend to do in the near future.

Flip
[edited for clarity]


[Edited on 15-1-2004 by Flipmode]



posted on Jan, 15 2004 @ 05:54 PM
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Well explained. What do you think of the idea put forward by researchers such as David Icke that their particular bloodline puts them under the control of malevolent beings from another dimension (the "reptilians")?



posted on Jan, 15 2004 @ 08:54 PM
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Hello Groo,

I stick with facts when sharing information with others. I do so because with hard solid facts, you always have a foundation. I know that we deal with "touchy" subjects, but for all their efforts, "debunkers" cannot destroy a fact. If you research something, and can come away with:

1. Court Rulings
2. Books authored and published.(includes verifying their bibliographies)
3. Government Documents
4. Legal Doucuments
5. Credible, Consistant, Reliable Sources from several unconnected sources.

You have something that's solid, tangible, and worth the lay person's further examination.

That's not to say that is all I use in the process of gathering information for my research. Leads come from some of the strangest sources, of course to make it fact you must take the next step and verify whatever information you can.

[Note:A good example of this is my interviewing of prisoners at a privately owned "Wackenhut" State contracted medium security prison facility, in which the confined offenders are forced to work for one of 2 manufacturing companies based on the prison grounds, eight hours a day, for 58 cents an hour in order to get "work and improvement credits" necessary for release. This amount to basically a slave labor force comprised of prison inmates that for for the most part(98%) are non violent offenders. I originally heard of these from a "ex con" who's information had to be substantiated, which made me follow it up at the prision and *bam* facts were born!]

Please understand, with the things I've seen, researched, and been privvy to knowing during my last 7 years of investigation, I believe anything is possible. So yes while I think that Mr. Icke's "Reptilian Agenda" *might* possibly one day "hold water". At this time I'd have to say that I have not seen substantial factual documentation, nor have I had a chance to meet anyone with experiences involving such things. But if I do and they care to be interviewed, then I'll be chasing facts on that.

I can say this: The ingrained and uncanny obsession that certain illuminati bloodlines have with
a. purity
b interbreeding
c. social structures
d. class distinction
Is frankly very very odd. I have often wondered why this exsists, but the closest thing to factual foundation that I have uncovered thus far, deals with the "Black Nobility" and their supposed ties to the House of David. This too cannot be proven without a doubt at the momemt.

Let me stress the above phrase "at the moment". Because I can assure you that eventually, these types of questions will too be known.

It would be equal to saying that basically while I can prove that Illuminati members can be traced well back in time, and that it can be proven that they both believe in and worship Lucifer(Satan/ Hasatan etc etc), and oppose "God"(yahweh /Jehova etc etc). I still cannot say that either of those entities (Lucifer or God) truly exsist. Nor can I prove factually that Lucifer or God(or a combination of both) weren't a "fabrication of some extra-dimensional something or other/ extraterrestrials. So I prefer to stick with factual evidence when reaching an audience.

After all, if I open the door in their mind to this reality, and show them a good path to start on, they will be added to the number of "free minded persons" looking for these same answers.

See where I'm going with this? When trying to show people the true reality(as true as can be factually proven) we live in, I like to stick with "just the facts". I can, we can speculate all day long, but without backing, it makes your case twice as hard to get across to many of the masses.


Are other dimensions, Reptilian rulers, or Lucifer and God truly exsistent? I dunno, but that's ultimately what we're all trying to uncover
.

flip





posted on Jan, 16 2004 @ 12:28 AM
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OK so are masons/freemasons really just a part of the illuminati or are they completely seperate. I know they have the degree system and that the 33rd degree is supposedly the highest



posted on Jan, 16 2004 @ 12:44 AM
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Originally posted by Flipmode
Hello Groo,

I stick with facts when sharing information with others. I do so because with hard solid facts, you always have a foundation. I know that we deal with "touchy" subjects, but for all their efforts, "debunkers" cannot destroy a fact.


A very wise approach, in my opinion. Best to stick to the known proveable facts when introducing the topic to someone.

It's a fascinating concept. But I agree that at this stage it's probably best kept in mind as just one of many possible explanations.



posted on Jan, 16 2004 @ 12:55 AM
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I agree you have done lots of research. Can you tell me from where? Please.


your statement Ordo Ab Chao - Order through Chaos is true, however it can also mean so many other things, as shown below;

John White's Blitz Latin v. 1.53.
Uses William Whitaker's Latin Dictionary v. 1.97.

Time/date = Fri Jan 16 01:40:01 2004

ordo. - ordo, ordinis
rank/succession/series/class/bank/order
NOUN MASC THING VOC SING MASC C:0

ordo. - ordo, ordinis
rank/succession/series/class/bank/order
NOUN MASC THING NOM SING MASC C:0

ab. - ab
from/by/after
PREP ABL A:0

Cha.o - Chaos, Chai
infinite darkness/unending space
NOUN NEUTER THING DAT SING NEUTER E:0

Cha.o - Chaos, Chai
infinite darkness/unending space
NOUN NEUTER THING ABL SING NEUTER E:0

Cha.o - Chaos, Chai
Chaos/formless
NOUN NEUTER LOCALE DAT SING NEUTER C:0

Cha.o - Chaos, Chai
Chaos/formless
NOUN NEUTER LOCALE ABL SING NEUTER C:0

Cha.o - Chaus, Chai
Chaos/formless
NOUN NEUTER LOCALE DAT SING NEUTER C:4

Cha.o - Chaus, Chai
Chaos/formless
NOUN NEUTER LOCALE ABL SING NEUTER C:4

It's kinda like what people say about the dollar bill, "Novus ordo seclorum" many say that it means
"New World Order" others say that it means "A new order of the ages."
I translate it as
nou.us - nouus, noua -um, nouior -or -us, nouissimus -a -um
new/unusual
ADJ NOM SING MASC POS C:0

ordo. - ordo, ordinis
rank/succession/series/class/bank/order
NOUN MASC THING VOC SING MASC C:0

ordo. - ordo, ordinis
rank/succession/series/class/bank/order
NOUN MASC THING NOM SING MASC C:0

saecl.orum - saeclum, saecli
age/generation/breed/present time/century
NOUN NEUTER THING GEN PLUR NEUTER C:0


You also make a comparison that Lucifer and Satan are the same. (Lucifer(Satan/ Hasatan etc etc)--Do you agree that this word Shaitan is also Islamic for Satan?--
SEVERAL members of this board (not I) will tell you are wrong. Please read this thread

www.abovetopsecret.com...


I also have been reading/researching/searching/ the Illuminati, a lot of stuff out there, but very little that can be traced back (that I have found) to an original source. Yes it could be that is the way they want it, but something has to survive, cause if it didn't, where did you get your information.

All I am asking for is roots to your research.
The basic questions of journalism
Who
What
Where
Why

Thanking you in advance for your replies


Definition of Shaitan
www.usc.edu...



posted on Jan, 16 2004 @ 05:10 AM
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"Well I live in the U.S., and if I want to go to dinner, I go. If I want to see a Movie, I can. I've never had to kill a member of the illuminati..."

im pretty sure i said something like that....

it was actually aimed at the people making posts about meeting up and fighting against the illuminati. the point i was trying to make is, we cant be entirely sure about the Illuminati. we know it existed and it probably still exists... but its just a guess at what theyre gettin up to. people seem so sure theyre out to set in a new world order. - we have absolutly no proof of that at the moment.



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