It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Are Homosexuals Christian, Can They Be Forgiven?

page: 4
2
<< 1  2  3    5  6  7 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Aug, 20 2007 @ 05:00 AM
link   
i don't understand why this issue isn't the primary point of discussion

homosexuality is a natural condition, just like heterosexuality. it isn't something people can change about themselves.

:shk:
it's a shame that people will deny what's right in front of their faces just because they refuse to accept that people in the bronze age might have been wrong about something.




posted on Aug, 20 2007 @ 10:57 AM
link   

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
i don't understand why this issue isn't the primary point of discussion

homosexuality is a natural condition, just like heterosexuality. it isn't something people can change about themselves.

:shk:
it's a shame that people will deny what's right in front of their faces just because they refuse to accept that people in the bronze age might have been wrong about something.


As the title implies we are discussing this on a theological level only. Whether you believe it’s a born condition or a learned one doesn’t really play into a theological debate.



posted on Aug, 20 2007 @ 11:19 AM
link   

Originally posted by JessicaS


It's the fact that there was someone who sat down and said, "This goes, This stays" that irks me about it's publication. They are all ancient books, written by ancient man. I have faith as well, in God and Christ, but in a world full of danger and evil, I have to use my head to determine what is right and wrong. What I put unwavering trust in, is the 10 commandments. It's common sense, it's written in stone, and it's known in everyone's heart.


Here lies the issue. You have faith, but not in the works of man, and you view the bible as the work of man. I agree with you that if you look at the bible from just an intellectual stand point it appears silly, but I also see the 10 commandants as silly too as they were presented, but to view all this with faith then god ensured the bible evolved correctly. As I said I’m not a scholar, but I think the New Testament kind of trumps the Old Testament.

I think the word you are looking for is ethics, and ethically if an action causes positive growth and no mental or physical harm it is good.

Also I think in bible terms love and sexuality are two completely different subjects, and if you view any relationship in the religious sense love has no limits where sexuality has many whether you are heterosexual or homosexual.



posted on Aug, 20 2007 @ 11:38 AM
link   

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
i don't understand why this issue isn't the primary point of discussion

homosexuality is a natural condition, just like heterosexuality. it isn't something people can change about themselves.

:shk:
it's a shame that people will deny what's right in front of their faces just because they refuse to accept that people in the bronze age might have been wrong about something.

Hello Madness! In my usual blundering, I think I might have been trying to illustrate that about my friend. She felt that she was born that way. And in some cases, it's been proven that a person actually started out a different sex, but becuse their organs weren't perfect, the doctor chose their sex.



posted on Aug, 20 2007 @ 12:53 PM
link   

Originally posted by Xtrozero
As the title implies we are discussing this on a theological level only. Whether you believe it’s a born condition or a learned one doesn’t really play into a theological debate.


actually... it does. in a purely theological debate it is still by far the biggest point. if they are born that way (which is where all the evidence points) then god MADE THEM THAT WAY.

and on a theological level you could ask the question: why would an omnipotent being care about what 2 consenting adults do in the confines of their bedroom?



posted on Aug, 20 2007 @ 03:59 PM
link   

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul

Originally posted by Xtrozero
As the title implies we are discussing this on a theological level only. Whether you believe it’s a born condition or a learned one doesn’t really play into a theological debate.


actually... it does. in a purely theological debate it is still by far the biggest point. if they are born that way (which is where all the evidence points) then god MADE THEM THAT WAY.

and on a theological level you could ask the question: why would an omnipotent being care about what 2 consenting adults do in the confines of their bedroom?


Even as OP, I'm not going to have an opinion here either way. because my main reason for opening the thread was to get as much feed as possible to help answer some of these questions. I have stated my opinion that I don't see any sins being any bigger than any others. and that all are forgiven except blasphemy (rejection). The way that I have read the bible, I have seen homosexuality listed as a sin, and I'm not taking away from that, but I'm trying to impress upon those that think it has a special stigma. I have had viewpoints where some readers of the NT think that maybe the sin of homosexuality was eradicated because of the new 'law of love.' I really appreciate varied view points and all have been helpful.



posted on Aug, 20 2007 @ 04:14 PM
link   
let me put on my theology cap for a secnod...

ok

well, it's clear that homosexuality is only considered a sin in the bible because of the limited understanding of human sexuality present in the bronze and iron ages. some things listed in the OT as sinful are either hygine (bathing rituals when you wet the bed... yes, it's in the bible) just plain superstitious (mixing of fabrics) or derived from an attempt to be the polar opposite of the competeting religions...
example for the last one, mixing meat and dairy: the temple of baal used to sacrafice lambs by boiling them alive in their mother's milk (cruel, i know)... so no meat and dairy.

most of them are the result of human error, not because of the actual sinful nature of these things.

more advanced and informed theology shows us that homosexuality isn't justifiable as a sin, there is no way that it inherently seperates you from god or goodness. there is no inherent evil in the act.

stealing: clearly bad, any culture agrees on that
murder: clearly bad, any culture agress on that
blasphemy: inherently seperating you from god... ok, i can argue either way on whether or not this is a sin... but let's just say it is for the sake of this argument
having sex with a member of the same sex: don't see how that seperates you from god.



posted on Aug, 20 2007 @ 05:17 PM
link   
Madness, sometimes I think you go out of your way to miss the point. And why are you hung up on all those old testament, mosaic laws?



posted on Aug, 20 2007 @ 06:28 PM
link   
Why should anyone be forgiven for being who they are?

If I believed in sin in the theological sense, I would think that the greatest sin of all is ignoring who you were made to be by "god" and sublimating your natural tendencies at the word of men, who are usually hateful and ignorant on the subject.

I know dozens of gay folk, being in the SF Bay Area as I am. It's not a choice, it's who they are. Why would a loving "god" make someone a certain way then condemn them to hell for being themselves?

Either "god" doesn't exist and the stricture is put in place by flawed people, or "god" is insane. Just my opinion as an atheist though, so I'm sure nobody will care to listen anyway.



posted on Aug, 20 2007 @ 06:44 PM
link   
reply to post by MajorMalfunction
 


This thread is open to all opinions.



posted on Aug, 20 2007 @ 06:56 PM
link   
reply to post by janasstar
 


i think he is "hung up on them" because that is the onlu place were gays are actively condemned in the bible.



posted on Aug, 20 2007 @ 07:02 PM
link   
I cant think of a more hypocritical religion than the one that just cant "forgive" someone when their whole faith is about forgiveness and love. I just cant grasp it, it seems so stupid a thing to get pissy about when you could be doing better things, like eating or picking your nose. or looking at this sweet dancing bannana.



posted on Aug, 20 2007 @ 07:12 PM
link   

Originally posted by superevoman
I cant think of a more hypocritical religion than the one that just cant "forgive" someone when their whole faith is about forgiveness and love. I just cant grasp it, it seems so stupid a thing to get pissy about when you could be doing better things, like eating or picking your nose. or looking at this sweet dancing bannana.

Have you read very much of this thread? I think that's what it's about. It's not a one-sided issue of hate.

[edit on 08/11/2007 by janasstar]



posted on Aug, 20 2007 @ 09:27 PM
link   
reply to post by janasstar
 


Talk about stupid and pissy. That's got to be the epitomy of pissy and stupid remarks.



posted on Aug, 21 2007 @ 06:55 AM
link   

Originally posted by janasstar
Madness, sometimes I think you go out of your way to miss the point. And why are you hung up on all those old testament, mosaic laws?


i'm hung up there for several reasons:
1: jesus never says anything about homosexuals
2: the mosaic laws are a clear illustration of how people can just say their own prejudices and then present them as god's word
3: they're funny.



posted on Aug, 21 2007 @ 09:34 AM
link   

Originally posted by janasstar
If anybody tells me that God in His love and mercy is going to cast this woman or anyone like her into hellfire for all eternity for one sin that their flesh is helpless over, I'm sorry, I won't believe it.


Well, the holy book, the Bible, which is the infallible written word of God, which you and many others base your entire faith system upon, tells you this. Who are you to question the Christian God’s will?



posted on Aug, 21 2007 @ 10:26 AM
link   

Originally posted by IhateGod

Originally posted by janasstar
If anybody tells me that God in His love and mercy is going to cast this woman or anyone like her into hellfire for all eternity for one sin that their flesh is helpless over, I'm sorry, I won't believe it.


Well, the holy book, the Bible, which is the infallible written word of God, which you and many others base your entire faith system upon, tells you this. Who are you to question the Christian God’s will?

Apparently, you among so many others, have tragicly missed the forgiveness message. That is so sad.



posted on Aug, 21 2007 @ 10:29 AM
link   

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul

Originally posted by janasstar
Madness, sometimes I think you go out of your way to miss the point. And why are you hung up on all those old testament, mosaic laws?


i'm hung up there for several reasons:
1: jesus never says anything about homosexuals
2: the mosaic laws are a clear illustration of how people can just say their own prejudices and then present them as god's word
3: they're funny.

Oh I see! So you're having fun tormenting me with them? Won't work! I've been redeemed from the curse of the law. I am not going to give you the scriptural reference on that, but HINT, it's in the NT.



posted on Aug, 21 2007 @ 10:37 AM
link   

Originally posted by janasstar

Originally posted by IhateGod

Originally posted by janasstar
If anybody tells me that God in His love and mercy is going to cast this woman or anyone like her into hellfire for all eternity for one sin that their flesh is helpless over, I'm sorry, I won't believe it.


Well, the holy book, the Bible, which is the infallible written word of God, which you and many others base your entire faith system upon, tells you this. Who are you to question the Christian God’s will?

Apparently, you among so many others, have tragicly missed the forgiveness message. That is so sad.


I'd like to further reiterate here that the bible is NOT God's Word!!!! It CONTAINS God's Word!!!



posted on Aug, 21 2007 @ 03:17 PM
link   

Originally posted by janasstar
Apparently, you among so many others, have tragicly missed the forgiveness message. That is so sad.


So anything you do will always be ok, because you can get forgiveness? Kind of like a get out of jail card that you have an unlimited supply of? Amazing!



new topics

top topics



 
2
<< 1  2  3    5  6  7 >>

log in

join