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Are Homosexuals Christian, Can They Be Forgiven?

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posted on Aug, 18 2007 @ 04:44 PM
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I am opening this forum because, I have read countless posts where homosexuals have come under special condemnation in certain circles. Not always Christian, there is all kinds of gay bashing. But this forum is to address view points of the Christian nature, because I see the suffering in the hearts of the Christian homosexual, and I hope that some things can be said here will be of help. Although, all view points are welcome, PLEASE, NO BASHING, or insults of any kind.

This is my viewpoint when I read the bible with a re-newed spirit and you can take it or leave it: But as I've stated before, I have a best friend who is a lesbian, and I have talked to her in depth about her life choice. She explained to me, that she always knew that she preferred women, but because of society, she tried her best, to do it, 'THE RIGHT WAY.' Twice she married, and was so depressed she nearly took her life. To her, being with the opposite sex was as unnatural as it was to some people being with the same sex. She is very Christian-hearted. She loves the Lord with all her might. When she swims several times aweek at the gym, she devotes the entirety of the time to talking to 'Louie' as she fondly calls Him.
If anybody tells me that God in His love and mercy is going to cast this woman or anyone like her into hellfire for all eternity for one sin that their flesh is helpless over, I'm sorry, I won't believe it. Sure, they have a chance to repent of it, just as any other sin we commit on this earth. But if we don't get the chance to, then there is a judgement day. There God will require an accounting. That is a chance to explain to God why we did what we did and didn't change, and He will decide the outcome. Not MAN!
We might can judge that a sin is wrong. But only God can judge the person. I believe that the word says somewhere, "If you come to Me, I'll in no wise cast you out." So, I didn't see Him say EXCEPT for homosexuals.




posted on Aug, 18 2007 @ 04:49 PM
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You make a good point, and one that I agree with you on. This I believe is one of the faults of this religion, the fact that it promotes segregation. And I believe that if the God that most Christians believe in (the kind loving one, not the vengeful one) exists, then I can see no reason why a good person (especially one as apparently devout as your friend) would be shunned in His eyes.

[edit on 18-8-2007 by bigbert81]



posted on Aug, 18 2007 @ 04:56 PM
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I'm going to add one more thing here, for those that haven't seen it posted yet, or are not familiar with it; There is only one unforgivable sin; That sin is blasphemy,( rejection). I don't see that there is an emphasis on any sins being any greater than any others. It is society that determines this. And not all of them are Christians. I had less tolerance of certain things before I became a Christian. But love covers a multitude of things. I am not perfect yet, and don't expect to be as long as I'm under the dictates of the flesh. All any of us can do is try. And that goes for non-believers and believers alike.



posted on Aug, 18 2007 @ 05:02 PM
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Originally posted by bigbert81
You make a good point, and one that I agree with you on. This I believe is one of the faults of this religion, the fact that it promotes segregation. And I believe that if the God that most Christians believe in (the kind loving one, not the vengeful one) exists, then I can see no reason why a good person (especially one as apparently devout as your friend) would be shunned in His eyes.

[edit on 18-8-2007 by bigbert81]

Thank you, and God bless you, friend. She will be glad to hear that others feel that way. Thank you.



posted on Aug, 18 2007 @ 05:05 PM
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Lots of things can be forgiven its the preachers who make their religion hateful to gays who in turn end up hating the whole Bible and God back.
Is it right for a gay person to read about homosexuality in the Bible and reject God as a whole because they cannot help it? Both are wrong in the message because all sin is a struggle and I guess its better to cure 100 sins than to keep 100 sins by rejecting the good things the Bible has to show and what Jesus was about. If its any consolation Jesus did not say a word about it was St Paul but even that is not enough conviction and I bet many blame Jesus for it. The Old Testament was about the tribal ceremonies of purity and not really a rule of today as Jesus over came all that.


[edit on 18-8-2007 by The time lord]



posted on Aug, 18 2007 @ 05:09 PM
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Originally posted by The time lord
Lots of things can be forgiven its the preachers who make their religion hateful to gays who in turn end up hating the whole Bible and God back.
Is it writing for a gay person to read about homosexuality in the Bible and reject God as a whole because they cannot help it? Both are wrong in the message because all sin is a struggle and I guess its better to cure 100 sins than to keep 100 sins by rejecting the good things the Bible has to show and what Jesus was about. If its any consolation Jesus did not say a word about it was St Paul but even that is not enough conviction and I bet many blame Jesus for it. The Old Testament was about the tribal ceremonies of purity and not really a rule of today as Jesus over came all that.


That's a very good point and I'm glad that you brought it to my attention. I will share this with my friend. She does a certain amount of suffering over her life choice. Because there are evil people in the world who bash her. Christian and non- christian.

[edit on 08/11/2007 by janasstar]



posted on Aug, 18 2007 @ 05:11 PM
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Well I guess your question is directed towards Christians and if you believe in the bible then the answer is Yes, Yes. For that to happen they must first believe in Jesus to be a Christian and then they must sin in the eyes of the lord then they must renounce those sins and work hard not to do them again. With all that you get a yes, yes.


But I’m not sure if that is what you are asking? In a way I think you are asking can a person be gay and go to heaven. For that to happen I would assume they would need not to sin. I think everyone has sinful thoughts and actions, and gay actions are considered a sin even though it is not considered wrong in society. So in the end they are like anyone else, believe that Jesus is your savior, spend your life trying not to sin, and when you do honestly ask for forgiveness. If you find yourself sinning weekly and asking for forgiveness then maybe your faith is not that strong, but then that is something between you and god to figure out.



posted on Aug, 18 2007 @ 05:15 PM
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Originally posted by Xtrozero
Well I guess your question is directed towards Christians and if you believe in the bible then the answer is Yes, Yes. For that to happen they must first believe in Jesus to be a Christian and then they must sin in the eyes of the lord then they must renounce those sins and work hard not to do them again. With all that you get a yes, yes.


But I’m not sure if that is what you are asking? In a way I think you are asking can a person be gay and go to heaven. For that to happen I would assume they would need not to sin. I think everyone has sinful thoughts and actions, and gay actions are considered a sin even though it is not considered wrong in society. So in the end they are like anyone else, believe that Jesus is your savior, spend your life trying not to sin, and when you do honestly ask for forgiveness. If you find yourself sinning weekly and asking for forgiveness then maybe your faith is not that strong, but then that is something between you and god to figure out.


You know, I think you may have stumbled onto something, because sometimes it gets confusing to me also. Thanks for the input.
I don't mean confusion about the going to heaven or hell for this sin or that. I think the bible is pretty clear on that. It says all sins can be forgiven except blasphemy (rejection). But as to how God deals with the ones that didn't get cleared up before we left the earth, I don't know. I just know that if it was all final at that moment, we wouldn't need a judgement day. The judgement day isn't supposed to be all bad either. From what I read, there will be judging good for good, and bad for bad.

[edit on 08/11/2007 by janasstar]



posted on Aug, 18 2007 @ 05:39 PM
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Originally posted by Xtrozero

But I’m not sure if that is what you are asking? In a way I think you are asking can a person be gay and go to heaven. For that to happen I would assume they would need not to sin. I think everyone has sinful thoughts and actions, and gay actions are considered a sin even though it is not considered wrong in society. So in the end they are like anyone else, believe that Jesus is your savior, spend your life trying not to sin, and when you do honestly ask for forgiveness. If you find yourself sinning weekly and asking for forgiveness then maybe your faith is not that strong, but then that is something between you and god to figure out.

I think I need to be a little more thorough on your questions to me. I don't have all the absolute answers. That's why I continue to study the word. But my heart condition tells me that God is loving and merciful. And the Word states, "That He is unwilling that any should perish." "That all have sinned and fallen short of the glory..."

I don't find myself in the struggle that you are speaking of, such as weekly, or any thing else. I am not that different than anyone else. But when I do find myself in sin, I know that I have an Advocate (Jesus) with the Father. Who pleads our case. Because He was here on this earth and suffered all the temptations of man, for 40 days. So, if anybody knows what we endure in the flesh, that would be Jesus. I hope that explained your question.



posted on Aug, 18 2007 @ 05:45 PM
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the real question should be "why does it matter?" as these people were born that way



posted on Aug, 18 2007 @ 05:50 PM
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speaking from personal experience, my girlfriend/lover/roomate has stopped going to her mormon church since we began dating (i'm her first
) she said they would have excommunicated (sp?) her anyways since they view homosexuality as bad as murder.



posted on Aug, 18 2007 @ 05:55 PM
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They are only forgiven from my understanding if they do not practise there homosexualality.



posted on Aug, 18 2007 @ 06:02 PM
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To expound a little further, it is believed that homosexuality is a sin because it is a perversion of God's original Plan. That He made woman for man. For the purpose of pro-creation and the like.
personally, I'd like to think that He would understand a love between all mankind, or womankind, but I didn't write it, and I struggle to understand certain things. But once again, I don't see anywhere that it is any worse sin than any other.
Some people say that it's because that homosexuals also include the assaults of young children. Such as what's happening in the Catholic Church. But this kind of thing happens among heteros as well. There are opposite-sex assaults, attacks and murders of young children happening everyday, across this country and the world.
Evil is evil, no matter what the form. We all need to have a little tolerance of each other, and understand that, "while we were all yet sinners, Christ died for us."



posted on Aug, 18 2007 @ 06:05 PM
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Originally posted by darkheartrising
speaking from personal experience, my girlfriend/lover/roomate has stopped going to her mormon church since we began dating (i'm her first
) she said they would have excommunicated (sp?) her anyways since they view homosexuality as bad as murder.


Sweetheart, I don't want to step on any toes, but the Mormons are a cult religion. But I am so sorry that a faith she has chosen has turned it's back on her when she needs it most. I truly hope that you both find the support you need. God bless. Jana



posted on Aug, 18 2007 @ 06:05 PM
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Having sex is a spiritual experience, whether people like it or not. Differences on what you do, probably create different energies.



posted on Aug, 18 2007 @ 06:21 PM
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Originally posted by andy1033
Having sex is a spiritual experience, whether people like it or not. Differences on what you do, probably create different energies.


You make a good point here. I've watched my friend with her girl friend, (not while they were having sex, of course) but it was a beautiful thing to behold. I was rather envious. They would grab hands and go for walks out in the pasture, pet the animals, commune with nature, just some of the most beautiful simplistic things.
I thought to myself, "When was the last time a guy took my hand and said, "Let's go pet some animals and enjoy nature?" They are very monogamous and dignified.

[edit on 08/11/2007 by janasstar]

[edit on 08/11/2007 by janasstar]



posted on Aug, 18 2007 @ 06:21 PM
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Originally posted by janasstar
Although, all view points are welcome, PLEASE, NO BASHING, or insults of any kind.



You seem very sincere about wanting to talk about this and you present your friend as very sincere. That's a good thing and a welcome thing because some people on ATS come across as plain old troublemakers and people looking to start a fight.

So I am going to answer you very sincerely. No bashing is intended so if it seems that way it surely isn't, so remove that thought. And please continue this discussion and ask questions if you want, I am more than willing to answer.

The Bible clearly states that homosexuality is a sin. So is stealing(I've done that) and lying(I'm guilty of that one also). Any sin and one sin seperates anybody from God, partially now, and permanently in eternity.
There are lots of other sins(we both know that). God doesn't rate sins on a scale. A sin is a sin to Him, and being a Just God, His law says that the punishment for sin is death. that's the way it is.

Now you describe your friend as christian hearted(another way to say this is like a christian). (Bear with me now) A mouse is "like" a horse. They both have 4 legs, 2 eyes, a tail etc. While a mouse is "like" a horse, it's a mouse, not a horse.

You also say she talks to "Louie". I know that sounds like a good thing, but it's not. What it does is lowers who God really is. I'll go so far as to say she is making God into who she wants Him to be. Anyone can make God into what kind of God they want him to be(I've done that also).

That's why we have the Bible so we can find out who He really is.

I'm trying to put my next statements in the proper order. If I don't I'm still hoping you get the real meaning. If your friend has never made an on purpose, mental decision to receive/believe in/ trust in/ have faith in Christ, then she is still under the death sentence of sin. The gospel is that Jesus took each individual's death sentence upon himself and if a person accepts that their sin is sin, and trusts Jesus sacrifice in their place, then their sin is forgiven.

It appears your friend doesn't believe homosexuality is a sin. That's a problem. It's blinding her from the truth about it. And whether you want to believe it or not it's keeping her from really knowing who God is and from being saved.

Now can someone who is practicing or believes they are a gay, really be saved? I believe the answer is yes. A person can refuse to listen to the Holy Spirit living inside of them, but while that person is not under the eternal death sentence of sin, they are still, because of this sin, preventing themself from knowing God as much as they can and flirting with temporary consequences this sin can bring. I also believe this, that if someone is really saved(made that on purpose decision to ask Jesus for forgiveness of their sin) then homosexuality is one of the first things The Holy Spirit will convict them of, and will convince them to stop.

I remember a couple months ago and even a couple weeks ago hearing something on the news. In both instances a man had abused a child sexually. In both cases the judge did not sentence the men for their crimes. They were convicted but the judge did they opposite of what the law said. The judge let them go. They are very unjust judges and both caused an outcry from the citizens in their communities and even around the country.

God is not an unjust judge, He doesn't violate His law. He says and lets us know, the soul that sins, it shall die. But He has offered a way to escape this death, through Christ, but it does bring along responsiblities. Becoming a christian is free, it doesn't cost us anything. Living like one does.



posted on Aug, 18 2007 @ 06:26 PM
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reply to post by dbrandt
 


dbrandt, are you attracted to members of your same sex at all?

[edit on 18-8-2007 by bigbert81]



posted on Aug, 18 2007 @ 06:33 PM
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reply to post by dbrandt
 

you have too long a quote for me to insert it here. please understand that I'm not promoting anything here, but these folks are suffering from supposedly christian beliefs, and I am pointing out that there is none bigger or smaller. Not all Chritians are gay-bashers either.
But insofar as my friend. I can't pretend to know her heart anymore than I can anyone else's. Only God can do that. But I know from in-depth talks, that her heart seems to be in the right place. Personally, the fact that she feels close enough to the Lord to call him Louie, I don't know if that's a bad thing. I'll leave that between her and God. I think it's cute. But that is my opinion. The word says we will know them by their deeds. Her deeds (most of them, portray a Christian nature).


[edit on 08/11/2007 by janasstar]



posted on Aug, 18 2007 @ 06:37 PM
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reply to post by bigbert81
 


Ok, my point is you can't just flip a switch on who you are attracted to. I am not gay, and do not have any attraction at all to men, but if the tables were turned, I could not just turn off being attracted to women and start being attracted to men. Could you? if you believed that we were supposed to be with members of the same sex?

It's not just a matter of choosing to ignore what the Holy Spirit says. Doesn't sound quite fair, does it?

[edit on 18-8-2007 by bigbert81]

[edit on 18-8-2007 by bigbert81]



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