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Round 2. Esdad71 v Secret Titan: Peace-Making Mission of the Worlds

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posted on Aug, 17 2007 @ 11:39 PM
The topic for this debate is "When Humans achieve interstellar travel, it will be more likely for Humans to initiate hostilities with a less developed species than for a more advanced species to initiate hostilities with Humans".

Esdad71 will be arguing the pro position and will open the debate.
Secret Titan will argue the con position.

Each debater will have one opening statement each. This will be followed by 3 alternating replies each. There will then be one closing statement each and no rebuttal.

A post may not be any longer than 5,500 characters, using the ATS character counter.
Closing posts may not be any longer than 3,500 characters.

This character limit includes all board code, links, etc.
Extra characters will be deleted from the end of your post.

Please notice that the character counter counts backwards. If for some reason your character counter won't let you post a full 5,500 characters in one post, make a second post to finish your 5,500, and then u2u me and let me know.

Editing is strictly forbidden. This means any editing, for any reason. Any edited posts will be completely deleted. This prevents cheating. If you make an honest mistake which needs fixing, you must U2U me. I will do a limited amount of editing for good cause. Please use spell check before you post.

Opening and closing statements must not contain any images, and must have no more than 3 references. Excluding both the opening and closing statements, only two images and no more than 5 references can be included for each post.

Responses should be made within 24 hours, if people are late with their replies, they run the risk of forfeiting their reply and possibly the debate. Limited grace periods may be allowed if I am notified in advance.

Judging will be done by a panel of anonymous judges. After each debate is completed it will be locked and the judges will begin making their decision. One of the debate forum moderators will then make a final post announcing the winner.

When this thread becomes unlocked, you may proceed.

posted on Aug, 20 2007 @ 10:11 PM
Hello folks,and welcome to another fantastic round of " I will defend something I know nothing about!!!!" I would like to thank all the judges, ATSNN members and fellow debaters. On with the show...

Humans, through history, have proven one thing. They love to wage war for reasons that sometimes can defy even the delusions of the warhawk. Battles waged over Religion, resources, commerce and outright barbarism have been a staple of the human movement since time has been recorded on walls and papyrus. When we venture into space, how will it be any different?

Over 7000 years ago along the Nile River one of the first conflicts was waged in an area known as Cemetery 117. Much of the history of the world is told through military conquest and the plight of others. Ancient text speak of the underdog defeating the mighty and at the same time the mighty crushing the weak. So which is it? It is all encompassing, the thirst for war that has raged since before recorded time within the mythos of man.

We have waged war for gods, women and glory and the winner has written history. A single action on October 4, 1957 changed the world as we know it. Although we know not of the ocean below we claimed the heavens. Sputnik I circled the globe and forever after the race to control the stars has become a black funded program to promote ones own agenda, and that is to control space.

The human race is at best a conglomerate of different thinking individuals who when put together somehow always come to the same conclusion. With space, we want to find resources to exploit as we do on our own planet. If there is a dollar to be made and a way to take it, the human race will do whatever it can within its power to make sure the solution it wants comes to fruition. The human race is so primitive that it still worships idols and gods and at the same time relies on scientific breakthroughs to ensure that worship can continue. The disconnect is that no matter what a human must do, it will do that task to survive.

When we are able to travel to another place, as I am sure we have, it will not be a scientist with an advisor and a camera but a platoon of private industry soldiers that are ready to show whatever is on the other side that we are not there to negotiate and there is only one solution. Humans have not reached the level of consciousness that is needed to interact with the higher beings of the universe.

Humans still kill in an attempt to achieve peace. In order to make others think as we think, whether it is political or religious, the human race kills. When there is doubt in belief, the human race kills. When there is a turn in thinking, the human race kills. When there is something that the human race does not understand…it kills.

The same goes for an established race stopping by and saying hi on earth. Would you? Peace is not what is wanted, energy and power is what is desired. If peace was the desired outcome we would live in a world with no nuclear arms and no crime.

Sun Tzu said. "The art of war is of vital importance to the State. It is a matter of life and death, a road either to safety or to ruin. Hence it is a subject of inquiry which can on no account be neglected"

There is no boundry that the human spirit and greed will not fight to attain.

edit to correct typo

[edit on 21-8-2007 by The Vagabond]

posted on Aug, 21 2007 @ 06:17 PM
Whew, round 2 starts and another great topic. Good luck to esdad71, and all other remaining participants!

Throughout history there have been many wars, but along with war comes protest. If we did have the technology to travel to another inhabited planet, we would be fools to attack. Our leaders know that. Why would we want to make ourselves known in the universe as an aggressive race? If we did, we would only invite other more advanced (than ourselves) races to attack us in return. We have a small planet, chances are if we found another planet that was inhabited, it would be much larger than ours. Why does this matter? A larger Planet supports a larger population. Larger population means a more massive army.

Humans do not go to war for no reason. It may seem like it sometimes, but can you think of any that were not? We would have no reason to travel millions of miles just to start a war. We would need to make peace with any we met, even if it was for them to be a future ally in case of a war. Humans fight, but overall, we want peaceful lives. The only way we could advance our technology enough, for interplanetary travel on a large enough scale to wage war, is to work together.

True, we are currently greedy. We will fight to attain what we want. Before we can achieve travel on such a large scale, we would need to be able to travel throughout our own solar system. Knowing how we are, we would try to claim other planets as our territory. This would cause the world to make laws about space travel. Included in those laws would be one about not being able to wage war on another planet without being attacked first.

Now, about the travelers that think they are above the law. There is always a chance of laws being broken. If we were as advanced as we would need to be, our weapons would be advanced too. But, weapons have safeguards on them. We may even be able to disable them remotely in the future. Without weapons, there can be no war.

Humans do want peace, and to quote Tenzin Gyatso, the 14th Dalai Lama, "If you wish to experience peace, provide peace for another.” Great words fro us all to live by!

posted on Aug, 21 2007 @ 08:16 PM
We all know of area 51, but what of Functional area 40 do we know about? Have you ever even heard of it? Is it so inconceivable that we would already have a force of space troopers to be prepared to extra-planetary combat? Look deeper and the truth is shown and it is there.

“Our nation must have a professional "space cadre" to fully integrate space capabilities for war fighting and national intelligence. This point was clearly articulated in the Report of the Commission to Assess United States National Security Space Management and Organization, released in January 2001. The Army is in the process of determining the exact makeup of this "space cadre." Currently, the FA40 is the Army's primary contribution to this "space cadre", though there are many other "space smart" soldiers within the Army who also can be considered part of the "space cadre". I mean, here is a copy of the Army’s Space policy prepared in 2003”.

They disguise it as a program that will benefit the leaders of the battlefield on the planet Earth when in reality they are preparing for the globalization of our own solar system. We must prepare ourselves for the inevitable. Why would ANY civilization seek refuge beyond its borders? A cultural exchange? Do we think that a race would travel 27 light years to say hello and give us all of their technology? No, and that is why the US along with other nations have already begun to establish its own defense of planet earth. Can we all agree that the Shuttle missions are more than a ferry for ISS and that there may be more in our atmosphere than we know?

Meet the spaceballs.

Chief of Staff of the Army General Peter J. Schoomaker said, "The joint battlefield has evolved, extending vertically into space. The Army must be able to exploit space-based capabilities in support of ground operations. The Army Space Master Plan (ASMP) brings a space focus to all Army Functional Areas and provides a mission-oriented assessment of the Army's need for the capabilities that space brings to the fight." We are there. We have a interplanetary presence. We disguise it as the War on terror but we need to prepare our solar system from outside invasion not just for exploration.

I believe that we have been visited and warned, and that the time will come again when we will need to defend the earth from a hostile force that feels it superior to us. The thought of becoming the Beirut of the Milky Way is not what our leaders and military want, so billions are funneled into research with organizations such as DARPA, private industry and yes, even NASA. Since first modern contact in the early 40’s, I believe we awakened those who were not threatened when we let Nagasaki and Hiroshima know that a new era was upon us.

There is no reason to venture outside the boundaries of our solar system except to obtain information and technology to use and exploit in the present day. The ability to harness alien technology could win a war or turn around a global economy. This is proven in every century of recorded war history. We venture to pillage and expand OUR thoughts and beliefs and consume, not to conform. The space troops were created in 2000.

space troops

What does contact mean to us now? I mean, the Russians have the VKS for a reason and it is to have a permenant moon base by 2015 with no conflict.

Why does my opponent feel that the planet earth would do anything more than rape and harvest anything that it came in contact with. A locust to the universe we are more than likely avoided as a third world galaxy as much as the US would regard Uganda a contemporary nation.

How can we change our feelings to something we do not know when we destroy what we know and love?

posted on Aug, 22 2007 @ 05:33 PM
Secret Titan has informed me that he is unable to continue because of an unforseeable real world obligation that has come up.

Esdad71 will advance.

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