Your mad survival skills: busted

All valid points about most of us have head knowledge but not real survival knowledge. My brother in law insists the kids all learn to start a fire with a bow, but I have two words for survivalists everywhere--Bic Lighter! Your chances of survival are higher if you don't have to spend all day just starting a fire! Forget the macho hubris--carry a lighter!!! Haven't time to read the whole thread, but has anyone thought about the fact that most store-bought seeds are hybrids? Many hybrids cannot produce offspring--like a mule--usually sterile. That's why I sometimes agree with the theory that the powers that be are planning a famine. I'd like to know a lot more about storing seeds long term, and heirloom varieties.

As to killing my fellow man to protect what I got--I wouldn't rule it out entirely, but God usually provides for me and mine. I prefer to reserve killing humans for those times when they are trying to kill ME! I have used the tampon idea to plug an artery--it works--the ambulance standard packing was leaking too badly. ER doctor said we probably saved the kid a pint of blood with that idea--in only about 15 minutes.

Never forget that statistically more young children survive than adults stranded in the woods. That's because they keep it simple. They rest when they're tired. They seek shelter when they're cold or hot. They eat when they're hungry. Adults try to push through and wind up making stupid mistakes. Am begining to think performing minor surgery and a working knowledge of natural childbirth may be a skill we need to add to our requirements before our kids are emancipated. If my ex had not made my 10yr old perform C-Secs on our goats, his two little brothers and I would have been dead before his dad returned to our mountaintop home some days later, [I took almost every pill we had in the house first and washed it down with a half a fifth of Jack Daniels!--I am NOT into pain! The only surgery I ever (helped) perform drunk!--you should have seen the incision--LOL!---crooked as hell!]

As to water--in Katrina it was contaminated with petrochemicals--you'd need something to catch rain in. I'm also not sure if there were dead bodies floating in it, that there'd be any way to render it safe microbially. You'd want to use iodine tablets or chlorine, then use the life straw too--do BOTH. If there were dead bodies floating in it I'd go one step further and then boil it a full rolling boil for at least 3 minutes. BTW How do you dispose of bodies safely when you lack fuel to cremate them? Mass burials could in some circumstances contaminate ground water.

reply to post by Damocles


I would be interested in your first aid kit contents. I build my own as well but without any formal training feel that I may be missing a few things.


THanks
Photo-bug

Let's get something straight, there aren't very many fat toothless rednecks living out in the country. Most country folk come in two sizes, wiry and muscular. The wiry ones are the hunters,trappers and fishermen who think nothing of walking around the brush for at least 3-4 hours a day. The musclebound ones are the farmers and ranchers who work hard from before dawn til well past dusk often farming as a second job. I've heard a Navy Seal say that he'd rather face a Hell week in bootcamp than go back to working on his family farm. He was less tired after Hell week and work on the farm was never ending.

The fat rednecks you see on TV and portrayed on the movies are 'townies' not backwoodsmen. The mainstream media consider anything smaller the LA, NYC or Chitown as quaint small cities and small towns as being out in the sticks. I spent many a summer on my family farm and ranch where I was probably the only person around for a couple of miles in any direction I chose to face. It was farmland to me but most city folks would have probably considered it the wilderness.

Even if there's some sort of e-m storm that virtually wipes out every electronic devices on the face of the planet, our current food distrubution systems are flexible enough in the US at least to feed everyone in the US at least one meal a day for however long its takes to recover from whatever mishap befalls us. At worst, our technological retreat will only be to the early 20th century at its farthest. People seem to think that some we're going back to the stone age or something on most survival forums.

There will be a lot of deaths of the sick, elderly and the very young as it was in 1900-1920 periods but anyone from 10-60 years of age in reasonably good health will likely be alright only bored and a possibly a little hungry.

You're right about the retreat of technology. Unless it's some invasion by little green men or zombie armies, we're only going to lose the electrically powered devices that make life simple. Your home will still be there, and if you use your head, survival shouldn't be that hard. Stocking up on firewood and growing some crops was second nature to me growing up. In rural life, aside from the TV and fridge/freezer, you really don't miss electricity that much. Although it really helps during harvest to have those electric motors working in the barn.
As long as there is law and order, everything else still works. Albeait at a much slower pace. We'd pretty much just fall back to 1880 until some one figured out how to get the power back on.

Amusing how many neves this thread has struck, on several different levels. Most basically, I guess, for questioning the idea that running "away" is somehow safer than staying put for most people.

Notice, I'm not questioning those who have moved to the location they choose to survive in (my own choice), or who have bought a place in a remote location they've stocked up beforehand. But there's an attitude among most survivalists that survival looks like "Red Dawn." What I'm saying is that it will look like a cross between Sanford & Son and Granny's kitchen.

Originally posted by phoenixhasrisin

While I don't think heading out to the wild is a good idea unless it is to get somewhere, I'd have to say that staying in the suburbs would be just as foolish as trying to return back to nature. That equipment you mention has owners, and any that is abandoned will be fair game for all those others left behind as well. Really, I see no difference between fighting some idiot over a backhoe, or a deer shot in the forest.

I don't intend to fight with anyone unless I have to. I plan to persuade people to work with me in a mutually beneficial relationship, or leave me alone. Although I'm better armed than 95% of the populace, I don't plan on getting in a lot of shootouts where there's any question about my winning or not. Survival will be about a lot more than violence.

And to assume that the suburbs are filled with people who have practical knowledge is BS. The suburbs are filled with the very people you mention in your original post . . .

We moved out of the "burbs" of Dallas in part to get away to where life is safer and friendlier. We now live on the outskirts a small city. Even so, I have friends who are draftmen, doctors, nurses, even a retired plumber who sells firewood. One neighbor fixed my air conditioner for free. One of my closer friends is a farmer, who has taught me home repair, and loaned me tools. Another guy has a garden that covers more than half an acre.

If you don't know people like those, maybe you should, as someone else said, work on your circle of aquaintences. True, I gravitate toward other people who are interested in "self-sufficiency." But if they exist in small towns and cities in the heartland, they are probably in the burbs too. Surely someone there still does real work for a living.

The suburbs are mostly populated by people who can't live outside the comforts of modern society.

That has not yet been proven, one way or the other. Which is one of the points that seems to bother survivalists so much.

hell it's the ones in suburbia that are stockpiling ammo and food from Cost Co.

So are they totally unprepared, or not?

Originally posted by dr_strangecraft
. . . most seeds sold in stores are hybrids, which don't produce viable seeds after a single generation. . . .

I know quite a bit actually and what you wrote above is completely false, . . Hybridization does not equal sterilization . . .

My posts are based on my experience with corn (as a both gardener and farmer) as well as with blue lake bush beans and carrots. Carrot seeding is much more complex that just letting them go to seed. Bush beans, (mine, anyway) seem to produce pods that never develop-a lot of them-in a generation or two. Since bush beans at the center of our canning regimen, it's a topic I've put a lot of effort into. But hell, if you have the easy answers, I'm all ears.

I think it's cool that you have put a little extra thought into survival, but just because you tried to jerk meat, and sprouted a few seeds, that doesn't really seperate you that much from those you mention in your OP.

Well, you get a "C" --for condescension.

My post on jerking meat for survival may be lame in your eyes, but it's one more thread than you've posted, bub.

Originally posted by wigit
Canning? Great idea for later on when the dust settles but I thought we were talking about survival, not kitchen garden hobbies.

Disagree completely.

I think it's a great idea now, before things go to pot, and while there's still extra food and spare time to get it done while the lights are still on and the stove works.

The difference between a hobby and a way of life is simple: intensity.

Originally posted by cavscout

You can burn any wood.

true enough. Some wood smokes a lot more than others though. Wood with sap or termites seems to POP a lot; wood with dirt in it seems to smoke an awful lot. Cured wood sure is a lot better, IMO.

What 1950's town do you live in? Maybe one in 1000 people are involved in one of the above professions.

My wife is a medical professional. A good friend worked for years as a plumber. That's just two of the 500 or so people I know. But then, I live on the outskirts of town, not in the burbs themselves.

Just think back to Katrina. The social safety network failed. Neighbors weren’t looking to share skills with each other. Wal-mart wasnt hiring boys fromt he neighborhood to guard their stuff.

Those facts were true in the ninth ward BEFORE Katrina. People there didn't HAVE any social network, or marketable skills; that's the reason they had no cars to escape in, and no distant friends or relatives to escape to.

The people in the Superdome weren't from the suburbs; they came from the heart of urban decay. I doubt there were any walmarts in that part of New Orleans to loot. Mostly Liquor stores and pawns shops anywhere north of the french quarter, I think.

Other people fled. They had marketable skills, and made friends where they evacuated to. That's the reason New Orleans currently has a fifth of it's pre-Katrina population. That is more of an example of a localized catastrophe, rather than anything instructive if there's a civilization-wide melt-down.

You want to be in one of those FEMA shelters they put Katrina victims in or do you want to give it a go in the woods?

Neither. I choose a mid-size town in Texas, or in a neighboring state with like-minded relatives.

and the people living in these houses are just going to
give you all their stuff?

The myriad of 'stuff' (multiplied by 20-50 houses) that the average household contains is more than able to supply an organised neighbourhood with raw materials if you have the know-how to adapt them.

reply to post by dr_strangecraft


I think why people want to run for the hills is because they dont want to get caught in the web.

Its all fine and dandy saying well ive moved to the outskirts of some small city so im thinking ahead. I can make jerky and im growing a veggie garden from rain water etc. Unfortunately your house still has an address and the police and or army will eventually come by as they sweep community after community, city after city in order to quell 'the violence' after the terrorist nukes went off.

For example, "excuse me sir please hand over 'lists weapons you own,' this is for your own safety as looters and dissenters may attack your family for your weapons to use against government troops. Oh and by the way the government requires your family to report to the department of homeland security in order to get chipped. This is a great initiative undertaken by the government with yourself and your families interests at heart. Think of the convenience sir no longer will you have to deal with cumbersome cash all transactions can be made via the chip, ahh the wonders of modern society." The soldier motions to leave then remembers, "oh and sir it seems your son is of age, we expect him to present to the recruitment office by the end of the month for enlistment, good day."

Now your disarmed, they know where you are at all times (as well as your family) and if your a dissenter they will just turn of your chip. Youlle still be alive in your house, but at what cost? Remember homeland security is always watching, looking after you. You get a phone call "Mr. Strangecraft satellite monitoring detected that you broke curfew on the 17th you do realise this is an offense? Any more infractions and the department of homeland security may take action."

I would rather try and live in the hills with what poorly over estimated survival skills i have than have a clamp around my balls.

[edit on 23-8-2007 by blahdiblah]

[edit on 23-8-2007 by blahdiblah]

[edit on 23-8-2007 by blahdiblah]

[edit on 23-8-2007 by blahdiblah]

Originally posted by dr_strangecraft
Notice, I'm not questioning those who have moved to the location they choose to survive in (my own choice), or who have bought a place in a remote location they've stocked up beforehand. But there's an attitude among most survivalists that survival looks like "Red Dawn."

Yeah, a lot of survival types do have that Mad Max syndrome. All that aside though, more of the human population are living in cities than at any other time in history, that being the case, how can you say that staying put is a viable option for most people?

I don't intend to fight with anyone unless I have to. I plan to persuade people to work with me in a mutually beneficial relationship, or leave me alone. Although I'm better armed than 95% of the populace, I don't plan on getting in a lot of shootouts where there's any question about my winning or not. Survival will be about a lot more than violence.

To some people survival is only about violence though, and I stand by the thought that there will be more of those types in the burbs and large towns.

We now live on the outskirts a small city. Even so, I have friends who are draftsmen, doctors, nurses, even a retired plumber who sells firewood. One neighbor fixed my air conditioner for free. One of my closer friends is a farmer, who has taught me home repair, and loaned me tools. Another guy has a garden that covers more than half an acre.

That's great, but like I said, most people do not live in communities like that. Most people now live in suburbs, or cities.

If you don't know people like those, maybe you should, as someone else said, work on your circle of acquaintances.

Perhaps if I ever move to Mayberry then I can have that chance like you too.

Surely someone there still does real work for a living.

Of course, but when you think of the sheer size of our population, plus the demographics of the burbs and cities, then you will realize that those people usually do not live anywhere near each other.

That has not yet been proven, one way or the other. Which is one of the points that seems to bother survivalists so much.

No, I've seen what happens when stores close, and law breaks down, mind you I am from.Ca, so I might be biased.

So are they totally unprepared, or not?

Extra food and ammo doesn’t make one prepared for anything other than prolonging the inevitable, so no they’re not.

Bush beans, (mine, anyway) seem to produce pods that never develop-a lot of them-in a generation or two. Since bush beans at the center of our canning regimen, it's a topic I've put a lot of effort into. But hell, if you have the easy answers, I'm all ears.

Yeah, many strains will decrease in yield over successive generations. If you have experience farming though, then you know that there are no easy answers. Honestly, farmers/growers over the last 50 years or so have come to expect higher than natural growth habits due to the advances in breeding, and many of the expectations of growers are simply unrealistic, including a continuance of high yields in successive generations.

Well, you get a "C" --for condescension.
My post on jerking meat for survival may be lame in your eyes, but it's one more thread than you've posted, bub.

Not lame, it just seemed like you were deriding those with “20 Yr old Boy Scout Skill”, and I found it funny that you ended up sounding the same way, I mean come on, don’t act like the OP was some serious attempt to educate people.


[edit on 23-8-2007 by phoenixhasrisin]

another thought on water...if youre clever enough to have one of those large blue tarps, lay it on the ground at night and then in the morning before the sun comes up gather the corners together and dump off the morning dew into a container. it wont yeild gallons at a time but every little bit helps and who knows when the next rain will come.

Not lame, it just seemed like you were deriding those with “20 Yr old Boy Scout Skill”, and I found it funny that you ended up sounding the same way, I mean come on, don’t act like the OP was some serious attempt to educate people.

probably not educate people so much as to give a wake up call. if you can get people to objectively eveluate THEIR OWN current skill level and make those that can honestly say that their skills are not adequate for their own needs, they make take steps to reinforce those skills and learn new ones while there is time. learning on the fly like tom hanks in cast away isnt ideal or even realistic. that may work for some but the majority would be boned. and i think taht if people reading it take it as a wake up call, the OP of this thread may save some of them. even if its just ONE guy or gal reading this and saying "yeah, he's right. i should practice what i know and learn what i dont" it was worth the time to post it.

photobug, check your u2u's ill send you my list.

Wow, as most people I feel as though my survival skill are up there. I was raised by my depression era grandparents in the backwoods of nothern Florida. We grew our own veggies and canned them. Fished the river and sold what we couldnt use. I was even taught how to cure the fish to keep iti for long periods of time. Coming from a dirt poor family that raised their own chickens for eggs pigs for slaughter and hunted for a lot of our food, I believe I was very well equiped before I ever recieved any military training. I was lucky enough (in this aspect) to have been a part of a special operations unit that required me to attend several different schools. Taught me a lot of things I didnt know and reviewed some that I already had in my bag of tricks.

I believe the key to survival in a situation X scenario is to remember that for thousands of years people survived without all of this techno crap that everyone needs today. My grandparents didnt need cellphones laptops or microwaves....I suggest that those of you that are lucky enough to still have Grandparents to talk to them about what life was like(most of that generation is dead or dying) to live as they did. There is a lot of knowledge that has been forgotten and needs to be remembered. I believ it is a part of my heritage to know these things and it is my duty as a father to teach my children where they came from and the hardships endured by some great people that made it possible for them to have the things they do.

Education is key in a situation like this BUT it takes practical application of the learned skills to enable to properly use them. Practice makes perfect.
Cheese and soap are a couple of simple things that take some practice to make...try it and you will agree (by the way goats milk makes the best of both JMO)

Just remember to keep seeking the knowledge....you never know when an obscure piece of it may save you or a loved ones life.

Kafer

I think one of the biggest gaps in communication we've got in this Survial discussion is the range of possible situations, and the inattention to odds.

Survival isn't just about the complete end of civilization as we know it, roving armies of bandits, NWO-like martial law, and so forth. The vast, vast majority of the time it's something like an ice storm shutting down the city, a tornado that's wrecked the power, water, and roads, or a flood. Hurricanes are, obviously, another source of serious damage to an areas infrastructure.

These aren't end of the world scenarios, nor are they rare. Most of them are predictable, cyclical, and those of us who live in the areas that get these problems (Texas is prone to all the above and almost every other type short of volcanic eruption), know we're living on borrowed time until the next major natural disaster strikes.

Now, what do you think is most likely to happen in any one given week in your area?

A natural nuisance that wipes out power and/or water for a few hours, maybe a couple of days at most (ie. a bad ice storm)?

A natural disaster that renders ineffective the infrastructure, power, water, and commerce in your area for an extended timeframe (ie. Katrina)

The complete downfall of civilization due to civil war, NWO clampdown, nuclear war, zombies, aliens, etc.?

How many times have each of those things happened in your area over the last year? Be honest now. How about the last 5 years? The last 20 years? The last 100 years?

What the Doc is advocating is a little bit of a reality check in your skills and preparedness, and I heavily advise the same, but rather in regards to what is most likely to happen in your area. Part of survival is beating the odds, and the odds are a lot more likely that the worst thing you'll ever face as a civilian is a few days without power or water, if even anything that bad.

If your entire preparedness plan consists of dropping everything, fleeing civilization for weeks or months on end, and killing anyone who gets in your way, then you're not much better prepared than the complacent cow that just picks up McDonald's on their way home each night in lieu of buying groceries.

Being truly prepared means preparing for what is MOST likely to happen FIRST, and what is most likely to happen is a situation like an ice storm, flood, or hurricane that requires you to remain put for a bit, provide your own food and water and heat, and then head back to work once it blows over. Heading out for the wilderness in these situations is usually idiocy at its finest.

By all means, HAVE a "bug-out" plan (my family certainly does), but the odds of it getting used before the "sit-tight and wait it out" plan are about the same odds as me flying in the space shuttle before the next time I fly in a plane.

Originally posted by dr_strangecraft
There is another survival thread where posters have listed their "survival skills."

Listing is good it helps to bring to the front of the mind what you know

I'm sure a number of them have actual experience. But I also notice a lot of posters who have "watched a TV show" or read a book, or were cub scouts 20 years ago, who assume that they "have skill." When all they have is a shadowy memory.

So whats wrong with a shadowy memory. A shadowy memory means you have done something at least once. It is a starting point. don't down it. often people will go into something based on a shadowy memory and as they are doing it the shadowy memory springs to the front and you remember every step. also reading a book is active survival training. not physical but who says action has to be physical. While I do agree with what you said there are better ways to say things. I am a trained active survivalist and I took Minor offense to how you opened this thread, the closing not that great either. I cant imagine what the people who are not as advanced as you and I would feel like reading the beginning of your thread.

Now I know that this is about survival and preparedness not hand holding, but the person you piss off today may be the one who learns something that might save your life some day. do you honestly think they are going to be inclined to share there knowledge? you might want to be Just a little more diplomatic.

In closing, I think there's a WORLD of difference between "knowing about" a topic, and possessing the kinesthetic skill you'd depend on in a survival situation. We need more threads about people investigating survival topics, and less about what people have seen on cable TV.

If those discussions bring fresh blood with fresh ideas to the ATS survival forums bring them on. I choose to ignore them you probably do to. but they actually interest some people who might have knowledge to share.

I prefer the unpleasant truth to even the prettiest of lies.

So do I but again your making it sound like every body who posted in the a-fore mentioned threads are liers. Some May be some arnt. keep what you like let the rest go. the laundry will all get washed in the end. The Things I mentioned Is IN MY OPINION the true nerve you touched.










[edit on 23-8-2007 by angryamerican]

reply to post by thelibra



I think that you are right in that there seems to be some lack of communication as to the nature of disaster we are discussing.

And defiantly you are right if one aims to be prepared for any survival situation the most common and likely situations should be given first consideration.

Obviously it wouldn’t do to prepare for a comet strike and not a blackout.

However often by preparing for the worst possible scenario we are ready for the not so drastic ones.

Water, food, power, medical, transportation, these are all things we would prepare to have disrupted in the event of, lets say, an all out nuclear exchange. If we are prepared as best we can for a nuke exchange then we should also do OK if the power goes off for a week or a large storm pollutes our water supply.

Also remember that along the same lines those backwoods Rambo skills may just come in very handy to someone who decides to hunker down at home in any disaster scenario. If I lived in Minnesota and sit. X caused me to lose utilities in the winter wouldn’t I do well to know to start a fire? And if that same sit x was larger than what would be expected and my utilities were down for an entire winter would I be well supplied in lighters and matches? I have a feeling that stores would run out of fire makers quickly in an extended utility outage. Sure, there are plenty of matches now but dont you think that after giving out the first box of matches in a few days the store clerk is going to think twice about taking the second and last box home? People will hoard. It has been proven time and again that when the SHTF people become pack rats and once common items become scarce. If you for your matches and find that a rat took them to build a home (talk about survival, go rat!) will you know how to start your fire over and over agian with things you have in your home? Many will not, but wanna be Rambo will at least have some idea.

My point is that if you prepare like a wanna-be Rambo for the end of the world you will probably do better in the real disasters than had you only prepared for common disasters.

It’s better to have and not need than to need and not have.


[edit on 23-8-2007 by cavscout]

Originally posted by cavscout
My point is that if you prepare like a wanna-be Rambo for the end of the world you will probably do better in the real disasters than had you only prepared for common disasters.

To a degree, I agree. Personally, I like to prepare for everything. I honestly don't think we will ever see a zombie outbreak, ever, but we've got a plan for it, just in case. But insofar as limited resources go, I first apply it to ensuring that we are prepared for the most likely disasters first.

In the event of the loss of all water and power, I'd feel really silly if I'd spent thousands on a fallout shelter in the backyard, and not had the foresight to stock a few days worth of food, water, and medical supplies. I'd feel equally silly if I'd packed a bug-out-bag, learned how to start a bow-fire, could catch and gut a wild kill, and take out a platoon of bad guys, a la Rambo, but had failed to come up with a fire drill, and the house caught fire. I would feel very silly if I'd spent all my time training on how to live off nothing in the middle of the woods when I hadn't even bothered learning CPR to save my wife if she wasn't breathing.

The thing is, threats to our survival surround us, every single day, every moment of every day. The fact that we survive them on a daily basis is because someone, somewhere, thought about the most likely and frequent threats and addressed as many as they could BEFORE they happened, or corrected the procedure after people died from the previous one.

IMHO, save the Rambo stuff for after you've addressed the common, frequent threats to the survival of you and your family. Once you know how to handle any common disaster or crisis (medical, fire, etc), then start learning how to deal with the uncommon disasters (floods, ice storms, hurricanes), and then start working on the rare or once in a lifetime disasters, the Rambo skills like how to take out ten Nazis with nothing but your bowie knife and the landscape.

Me, I've been preparing for just the common and uncommon stuff for years, and still have yet to get every single base covered, despite making it a constant goal and working towards it. To me, the greatest chance of survival isn't from banking on a Rambo skillset, but rather careful learning and application of knowledge to survive against the other billion-some-odd much more likely ways to die.

This is why I haven't had to practice Rambo stuff in over a decade. The knowledge and theory is still there, but for now, it remains unpracticed in the wake of things like installing smoke detectors, learning how to garden food in the local area, learning carpentry, and learning new medical techniques.

However, I do agree 100% that there are three Rambo skills absolutely most essential to learn, just in case it ever really is the worst case scenario: obtaining water, food, and fire.

Great Post And yeah you got me.. Im busted! hehe

I would like to think I have good skills, but honestly, I just love to camp and fish. Take some beer with me, and just enjoy. If it really came down to living off the land, I know in my area its not possible, just to many people, and not enough woods.. simple math there.

My buddy and I have a nickname, sharkbait We go out fishing to a great spot called Anclote island, we walk out to a sand bar that is about waist deep, and cast off from there.
Mind you I have the bait bucket tied to my belt loop, if I catch a fish Its going in my pocket, its a long walk back to shore.
Bullsharks can smell blood a mile away in waters, but we rely on the dolphins, and keep an eye out for sharks. I have no worries, but our girlfriends call us sharkbait.. hehe its great fun and awesome fishing!!

You know, the point of this thread was to get people talking, in all honesty, about survival skills that matter most.

There are some genuine wilderness survival types who post here regularly; you can tell by the content of their postings. There are some others, who come off pretty authoritatively, whose authority seems largely self-inflicted.

I'm sure that people with specific training would actually be more comfortable in a wilderness setting than they would be (or are) living in society. For me personally, I want to be wherever the dentists are. And not the "crisis field dentistry medics" armed with a bowie knife and a bullet to munch on.

I have a large family, and a lot of friends; they are what makes life worthwhile for me, and I'm not willing to ditch that decades-long investment because the NWO might not bother looking in the wilderness for the "rambo types." Personally, I'm convinced that they are tracking woods-dwelling survivalists already, before anything gets started . . .

I guess what I'm advocating is more self-sufficiency than it is survival. If I can act now to secure food and fuel for the forseeable future, and learn how to lessen my dependency on the skills of strangers, then my family & I stand a better chance at living the best life possible under the circumstances.

From my viewpoint, guns are more important for hunting than defense; pantries are more important than ammo caches, and livestock is more valuable than an SUV. Now, I wish I owned them all; but with limited resources, I want to prepare for the most likely problems first.

Those problems are weather, crime, fire, economic shocks, and disease. I've moved to an area that is pretty safe from terrorism due to its low population and distance from the coasts. I've speculated elsewhere about the possibility of an atomic detonation in the US, and I've made some basic plans for that scenario as well.

What are the odds that I'll be caught in a snowstorm without both matches and a lighter? Remote, since I stock those things in all our vehicles, in our bug-out bags. I haven't started a fire by primitive means in about 7 or 8 years, I confess; but then it's not what I consider an eminent survival skill.

What are critical skills?

-having the foresight to have flashlights and kerosene lamps for the house in case of power outtage. Same with firewood and stored drinking water.

-medical care; this is overseen by me wife; but she makes me take CPR classes for the sake of the kids. If something should happen to her . . .

-being able to recognize CO poisoning

-being able to recognize botulism, ptomaine, or salmanella in dented or rusted cans, or in any stored food.

-Having a disaster plan in place

-Having a crime prevention plan in place

-being able to sew, cook, can, jerk, hunt and garden

-being able to hide valuables on my property

-being able to convince antagonists that they have found all my valuables before its really true.

-being able to defend myself from legal attack

-being able to defend my assets from seizure, rapid inflatilon or other devaluation, or fraud.


See, no one lists most of those as survival skills. Yet all of them are critical. Chance are, if you live in an urban area, at least once a decade or so you will be the victim of a felony. So obviously, your survival planning should reflect that very real threat, as well as of a dirty bomb going off near you, a threat of indeterminate plausibility.

What about identity theft? You may be more likely to suffer from that, than from frostbite . . .

There are a lot of threads in this forum about choice of survival gun or knife. None on the early diagnosis of anthrax. So far as I know, there was only one about survival investing. And it received about as warm a welcome as this one.

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OK, so the Dr. and thelibra have somewhat changed my mind.

I still think that in a total collapse of society the deep wilderness would be the place for me, assuming I could get my family there.

HOWEVER, what I have realized by reading both of you two's last posts is that I AM unprepared for some common everyday events. My wife and I have set waypoints and meeting points on maps for all sort of situations (I live 50 miles from work), but we don’t have a fire evacuation plan. My 12 year shoots well enough, but I havnt taught her CPR.

There will always be things we are unprepared for and I am grateful to you Dr. Strange for starting this thread and making me see some of things I would be better off spending my time doing.

That doesn’t mean I wont continue to spend my weekends pretending to be a bum out in the desert (I hate the desert, but we make do with what we have) but it does mean that I will take a long look at the everyday hazards I have been ignoring. Thanks.

BTW, Dr., since you are critical of some of the threads being started and see a lack of quality threads, why don’t you propose a list of topics you want to see discussed?

The way I see it, civilizations rise, fall, and change. Throughout that nature remains pretty stable and constant. Some of us are planning for our own personal situation x when we finally decide to just leave society. For me, sit x has already happened in a sense years ago, and i've been in urban survival mode now for several years. I already feel chipped and barcoded when i step into what most people call reality. I'm now making the final steps to depart entirely from civilization and eventually my gather a primitive tribe of a community. I live on less than 10k/year, and almost all of that goes into local organic vegetables. I don't own a car and i walk or bike/skate everywhere. I'm riding BMX for hours everyday to build up my endurance, power, agility, and keep a level of ruggedness that few have. For me, my destiantion is the deep wilderness even if no meteor strike happens. I just don't want to be part of the machine.

For about 2 years i lived off the land and the ocean, picking fruits and spearfishing with a hawaiian sling. Spent a lot of that time completely outside civilization on my 29' sailboat going wherever the wind would get me. When i came back to society and unfortunately rejoined it, and since then, i've felt like a caged circus animal when it comes to living in it all. I plan for a minimalist back to nature approach because that's where i truly feel at home. Four walls and a roof is merely a prison.

Oh, and since my last post i've been working on friction firestarting. Yesterday I hacked up a couple pieces of Sotol and made a hand drill. I added sinew thumbloops to the drill and cut a nice clean notch in my hearthboard. The first hole i drilled produced a nice coal in a short time. I played with the coal till it went out and worked up a couple more. I'm getting pretty confident that if i can find Sotol i'll have no problem (aside from sweating a bit) getting a fire going. I'm also working on a fireplow made from sotol, it's all made up, sitting out drying because i carved it from a green piece, as it's easier to work and im in no hurry.