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Satan is not Lucifer.

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posted on Aug, 18 2007 @ 06:42 PM
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reply to post by gotrox
 



Apology accepted. I agree the terms are very different ideas or concepts. Most people miss that.


[edit on 18/8/07 by MikeboydUS]




posted on Aug, 18 2007 @ 08:07 PM
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Satan does not exist.Satan is just a title,a name,nothing more.

Lucifer,on the other hand,was a being that existed in the minds of 1000's of people! this being was then incorporated into the christian faith and he/she became a being fimiliar to millions! all be it a corrupted version of the original.

"el diablo" is not an amalgamation of satan and lucifer.it has nothing to do with light,morning star or bearer of light!


and the god Pan had nothing at all to do with evil,learn your mythology!!

religion does 3 things to other faiths.
1.)it accepts over faiths without question.
2.)it destroys all rival faiths.
3.)it incorperates different faiths/popular gods into its own.

this is what happened with Pan,and many other popular gods/goddesses.sometimes the joining of ideas was good,sometimes bad.


Venus is just the roman name of Aphrodite,the goddess of love.Venus was many things,goddess of love,luck,a purifier,a mother,victorious...she has no association with light.that is Artemis and Apollo!!



posted on Aug, 18 2007 @ 08:13 PM
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forgot to mention.
in the christian faith Lucifer was called the morning star because he was the first of all angels made by god.maybe this is why this quote(mentioned earlier in this thread.)appears in the bible....Rev 22:16 ""I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David,the bright and morning star"" (aster orthrinos).are Lucifer and Jesus one and the same?? if not,why would Jesus make such a claim?



posted on Aug, 18 2007 @ 08:53 PM
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Originally posted by jakyll
Satan does not exist.Satan is just a title,a name,nothing more.


Yea, the title of the dragon......who exists.





and the god Pan had nothing at all to do with evil,learn your mythology!!

More into learning truth than mythology. You might learn who Pan really is.





religion does 3 things to other faiths.
1.)it accepts over faiths without question.
2.)it destroys all rival faiths.
3.)it incorperates different faiths/popular gods into its own.

this is what happened with Pan,and many other popular gods/goddesses.sometimes the joining of ideas was good,sometimes bad.


I don't have much use for religion. It appears that you have spent too much time learning from the blind man. Read many books?



Venus is just the roman name of Aphrodite,the goddess of love.Venus was many things,goddess of love,luck,a purifier,a mother,victorious...she has no association with light.that is Artemis and Apollo!!


I think you might try learning the origin of Venus ,Aphrodite, Estora, Isis, Ishtar etc. etc. etc..







posted on Aug, 18 2007 @ 09:28 PM
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Lucifer and Satan huh?
Both the same?
The answer, yes.
Explanation, here-
Lucifer is the "pre-mortal" name of Satan. Before Satan was cast out of Heaven, that was his name, "Lucifer" or "Son of the Morning."
Now how can this be?
Another example is of Jesus.
His "pre-mortal" name was "Jehovah" and His mortal name was therefore "Jesus Christ."
They're just different names.
Same reference.
Come on guys, it's not that hard.



posted on Aug, 18 2007 @ 11:23 PM
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at last count i have over 2300 books.so yeah,you could say i read a lot!!

the christian personification of satan does not exist.if you read the book of enoch you will see what i mean.

the meaning of the word mythology has changed over time,like many words.a myth used to be a story that was based firmly in fact.nowadays it means nothing more than a story,a make believe.(though not in every case,as history has shown us.)

you must tell me who you think Pan is.because history shows that before christianity he was not associated with anything bad,and after that faith took hold he was the personification of evil!!

the origins of Venus lies in the origins of Aphrodite.(nearly all roman gods/godesses are taken from greece.)Isis has no connection to either,she is the Queen of all Heaven,not a lowly goddess of love.i agree Isis has a connecion with Ishtar,also the image of her and her son has been used for that of the virgin mary and jesus.



posted on Aug, 18 2007 @ 11:39 PM
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lucifer was an angel he hated the way God cared more about man than the angels so he rebelled and fell to earth becoming a demon named satan long story put short



posted on Aug, 18 2007 @ 11:52 PM
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first of all,read the book of enoch.lucifer and his fellow angels may have lusted after humans,but they also pitied us.they gave us knowledge of fire,astronomy,metal work,farming,etc etc.it was this that angered god and made him cast his angels into hell,and made him punish humans....yet,only a few pages later,god himself gives mankind these gifts!!

second,as mentioned earlier in this thread,satan means "advisory" a name given to those that judge in the courts of heaven!

if you believe,that means that there are satan's existing in heaven as we speak.



posted on Aug, 19 2007 @ 12:22 AM
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Originally posted by jakyll
at last count i have over 2300 books.so yeah,you could say i read a lot!!

I'm sure the Bible is in there somewhere.....but that is alot of books.



the christian personification of satan does not exist.if you read the book of enoch you will see what i mean.

I wonder why this book is not in the Bible. I wonder what century it was written?


you must tell me who you think Pan is.because history shows that before christianity he was not associated with anything bad,and after that faith took hold he was the personification of evil!!

You might try Baal. And you are incorrect on your history. Any of those books you read got any truth in them? Then you might check and see who Baal is.



the origins of Venus lies in the origins of Aphrodite.(nearly all roman gods/godesses are taken from greece.)Isis has no connection to either,she is the Queen of all Heaven,not a lowly goddess of love.i agree Isis has a connecion with Ishtar,also the image of her and her son has been used for that of the virgin mary and jesus.

You might trace all these goddesses to Semiramis the original queen of heaven. As far as the Mary Jesus connection, you might look in St. Peters square and wonder why there is an obelisk there. You might check and see what and who an obelisk represents.



posted on Aug, 19 2007 @ 12:29 AM
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Originally posted by jakyll
first of all,read the book of enoch.lucifer and his fellow angels may have lusted after humans,but they also pitied us.they gave us knowledge of fire,astronomy,metal work,farming,etc etc.it was this that angered god and made him cast his angels into hell,and made him punish humans....yet,only a few pages later,god himself gives mankind these gifts!!


I've read the book of Enoch, I don't know how valid it is,
The book of Enoch
but nowhere does it say that the fallen angels "felt sorry" for or "pitied" man!!!
You are adding to it yourself, I think...to make a point. They might have given men knowledge just so they could hang themselves with it, or to fight against God (futility!)
Also, do you notice the first thing they teach women is pharmacalogical?
Maybe to gain a foothold through mind-altering drugs.Think what could happen if they ingested these "herbs" while pregnant!
The second thing they "teach" man is WAR, how helpful!!( A means to an end!)
When the devil gives you something, watch out! there'll be a heavy price to pay, later. When God gives you something, it is "without rebuke"

second,as mentioned earlier in this thread,satan means "advisory" a name given to those that judge in the courts of heaven!


The term is adversary...

Many women pagans believe as you do, although, I can't say that's what you are.



posted on Aug, 19 2007 @ 03:39 AM
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Originally posted by jakyll
Satan does not exist.Satan is just a title,a name,nothing more.

Lucifer,on the other hand,was a being that existed in the minds of 1000's of people! this being was then incorporated into the christian faith and he/she became a being fimiliar to millions! all be it a corrupted version of the original.

"el diablo" is not an amalgamation of satan and lucifer.it has nothing to do with light,morning star or bearer of light!


and the god Pan had nothing at all to do with evil,learn your mythology!!

religion does 3 things to other faiths.
1.)it accepts over faiths without question.
2.)it destroys all rival faiths.
3.)it incorperates different faiths/popular gods into its own.

this is what happened with Pan,and many other popular gods/goddesses.sometimes the joining of ideas was good,sometimes bad.


Venus is just the roman name of Aphrodite,the goddess of love.Venus was many things,goddess of love,luck,a purifier,a mother,victorious...she has no association with light.that is Artemis and Apollo!!







I agree the word Satan is a title, but a being lived behind that title just as the Angel of the Lord was title for a another being.

I agree the name Lucifer was corrupted by the Church just as it had done with many other Pagan deities.

I never said El Diablo was a combination of the two. It originates from Diablos in Greek which means Slanderer and is similar to the word Satan.

I agree Pan was not an evil Greek deity. Typhon would of been closer to a Greek evil deity.

I completely agree with the Light relation to Artemis and Apollo. It seems people for some reason have taken Prometheus and Apollo and made them into a new deity they named after the Roman deity Lucifer.



[edit on 19/8/07 by MikeboydUS]



posted on Aug, 19 2007 @ 03:47 AM
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Originally posted by jakyll
forgot to mention.
in the christian faith Lucifer was called the morning star because he was the first of all angels made by god.maybe this is why this quote(mentioned earlier in this thread.)appears in the bible....Rev 22:16 ""I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David,the bright and morning star"" (aster orthrinos).are Lucifer and Jesus one and the same?? if not,why would Jesus make such a claim?


Well Aster Orthrinos is not the same as Phosphoros, aka Lucifer. Aster Orthrinos is like Kowkab Boquer from Job. Those Morning Stars are a whole class of beings like the Seraphim. I'm not saying Jesus was an angel. It is ironic that in the Adatel with the Morning Stars there were also the Beni Elohim or Sons of G-d.



posted on Aug, 19 2007 @ 04:09 AM
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Originally posted by prepared4thefuture
Lucifer and Satan huh?
Both the same?
The answer, yes.
Explanation, here-
Lucifer is the "pre-mortal" name of Satan. Before Satan was cast out of Heaven, that was his name, "Lucifer" or "Son of the Morning."
Now how can this be?
Another example is of Jesus.
His "pre-mortal" name was "Jehovah" and His mortal name was therefore "Jesus Christ."
They're just different names.
Same reference.
Come on guys, it's not that hard.


What? Lucifer the Pre Mortal name of Satan? I have to diagree with you there but, you might find this interesting.

In Psalm 82, G-d stands before the Elohim. He is judging them. He says they are all Sons of El Elyon or G-d Most High. He accuses them of not Judging the Earth justly. Then He threatens them. He tells them they shall die like Men and Fall like any Prince. The Hebrew word there is Temutun in relation to die like Men. It means to Make Mortal. The Princes are Sarim like the Prince of Persia, Michael, Prince of Judah, Samael, Prince of Edom, and the rest of the 70 Princes of the Nations.

In Rabbinical Judaism the interpretation of the Psalm has changed for fear of it inspiring Polytheism. 2000 years ago it meant what it says.
The first few chapters of Genesis start to make sense after reading that.



posted on Aug, 19 2007 @ 04:21 AM
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Originally posted by thestatue
lucifer was an angel he hated the way God cared more about man than the angels so he rebelled and fell to earth becoming a demon named satan long story put short


Demons are something else entirely and there are different types. They are not all one type of being. They are also known as Jinn, which also come in a variety of types.

There are Seirim, which are like Satyrs or Fauns.
There is the Shedim are Ox or Bull like, also known as Shedu. Essentially Minotaurs.
There are Lilim. These are like Succubi, Lamiae or Empusae.



posted on Aug, 19 2007 @ 04:26 AM
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Originally posted by jakyll
first of all,read the book of enoch.lucifer and his fellow angels may have lusted after humans,but they also pitied us.they gave us knowledge of fire,astronomy,metal work,farming,etc etc.it was this that angered god and made him cast his angels into hell,and made him punish humans....yet,only a few pages later,god himself gives mankind these gifts!!

second,as mentioned earlier in this thread,satan means "advisory" a name given to those that judge in the courts of heaven!

if you believe,that means that there are satan's existing in heaven as we speak.



I think your confusing Lucifer with the Grigori and Azazel. Azazel and the Grigori/Beni Elohim do the Promethan gift of fire esentially. This was way before Babylon or the Sarim being placed over the nations. The Seventy Nations didnt even exist yet.

[edit on 19/8/07 by MikeboydUS]



posted on Aug, 19 2007 @ 04:41 AM
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Originally posted by Sun Matrix

Originally posted by jakyll
at last count i have over 2300 books.so yeah,you could say i read a lot!!

I'm sure the Bible is in there somewhere.....but that is alot of books.



the christian personification of satan does not exist.if you read the book of enoch you will see what i mean.

I wonder why this book is not in the Bible. I wonder what century it was written?


you must tell me who you think Pan is.because history shows that before christianity he was not associated with anything bad,and after that faith took hold he was the personification of evil!!

You might try Baal. And you are incorrect on your history. Any of those books you read got any truth in them? Then you might check and see who Baal is.



the origins of Venus lies in the origins of Aphrodite.(nearly all roman gods/godesses are taken from greece.)Isis has no connection to either,she is the Queen of all Heaven,not a lowly goddess of love.i agree Isis has a connecion with Ishtar,also the image of her and her son has been used for that of the virgin mary and jesus.

You might trace all these goddesses to Semiramis the original queen of heaven. As far as the Mary Jesus connection, you might look in St. Peters square and wonder why there is an obelisk there. You might check and see what and who an obelisk represents.


The oldest known copy of the Book of Enoch is from around 160 BC. It was part of the what we would call the Bible today during the time of Jesus. It is quoted in Jude. Jude 14-15.

Baal means Lord or Master. An epithet often used for Hadad, the Syrian storm deity. He's basically Marduk and Zeus. In the Bible Ba'al isnt even given the dignity of being a Demon. G-d says he is nothing more than the work of man's hands. Shaped and sculpted stone and metal.

At least the Egyptian deities were judged in Exodus as opposed to being just stone and metal like Baal.

Semiramis? Youve been reading the Hislop hypothesis from a Protestant minister in the 1800s who created the idea that Semiramis and Nimrod were the source of all pagan deities. The truth is there isnt anything historcial to prove she even lived and especially was the source of Mother Goddess legends.

Sources for Mother Goddess myths? Look at Lilith and the Shekinah.

[edit on 19/8/07 by MikeboydUS]



posted on Aug, 19 2007 @ 05:41 AM
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Hi all

In my belief Lucifer is diety from the era of man when he worshipped the female cult of Venus.

Satan is the cult of Saturn the era of man and the loss of the females a diety

Hence the movie 300 that movie portraits it´s very nice.
Hollywood gives more info that you would think.


You guys can´t get to the bottom of this because the knowledge is LOST.

You can listen to smart people like Tsarion or Jordan Maxwell but you have to join the pieces yourselves.

Nando out!



posted on Aug, 19 2007 @ 08:18 AM
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Originally posted by PPLwakeUP
You guys can´t get to the bottom of this because the knowledge is LOST.


Or much of it is held in very few hands. The Vatican? Zahi Hawass and the Supreme Council of Antiquities? The U.S. Archives? Who knows. The point is that I think there are people, rather groups of people who exist that can put much of it together, but they will never tell because to do so means they would lose a certain measure of power over the masses. Many of us are not privy to excavations and caches of knowledge throughout the world. It's not logical to say that because of this there must be conspiracy of silence to keep us in the dark. All I am saying is that throughout the ages, the eons, Man has found a way to hold onto vital pieces of information, and if Michael Cremo's work has any validity, any at all, it shows that there are some serious questions that need to be answered. I think many of those answers exist. I'm not saying we're victims, I'm just saying we haven't as much a clue about the origins of some things as some others who are possibly more well informed as a matter of birthright and privilege.

Anyway, back on topic.

[edit on 19-8-2007 by Areal51]



posted on Aug, 19 2007 @ 08:19 AM
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Just wondering what is the Star of David is about maybe a connection to this and has that got anything to do with Jesus being the morning star? There was a bright star at his birth too maybe different things and meanings here, sounds the same but could have a different symbolism.

This could be it, the morning star was meant to be Satan anyway, he was meant to be the morning star that failed so Jesus took up the role as his will bring right where Satan's went wrong as the morning star, two different stars one that failed one that wins out of what is right so Jesus fulfils that role as he too came down as man but in a different way as saviour. Like two different philosophies going on here right wing or left in politics but does not mean it’s the same person.


[edit on 19-8-2007 by The time lord]



posted on Aug, 19 2007 @ 08:21 AM
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Originally posted by MikeboydUS

The oldest known copy of the Book of Enoch is from around 160 BC. It was part of the what we would call the Bible today during the time of Jesus. It is quoted in Jude. Jude 14-15.

I know. I ask a lot of questions to try to get people to think. Just like I asked you who the mortal Babylonian king being talked about in Isaiah 14 is. Though you have made an effort to answer, you have not used the text to come up with the right one.



Baal means Lord or Master.

No doubt, that's why people should pay attention when someone talks of worshiping the Lord on SUNday. Best make sure which Lord is being discussed. That's a common smoke screen to fool the blind.



An epithet often used for Hadad, the Syrian storm deity. He's basically Marduk and Zeus. In the Bible Ba'al isnt even given the dignity of being a Demon. G-d says he is nothing more than the work of man's hands. Shaped and sculpted stone and metal.


Marduk and Zeus huh? I agree..........and Pan and Osiris and Jupiter etc. etc. etc. Baal is much more than the storm diety.




Semiramis? Youve been reading the Hislop hypothesis from a Protestant minister in the 1800s who created the idea that Semiramis and Nimrod were the source of all pagan deities. The truth is there isnt anything historcial to prove she even lived and especially was the source of Mother Goddess legends.


Nope, never read Hislop book, though I have run across the book on the net. I've just run across thousands of reasons why these dieties are connected. You just connected Baal, Marduk and Zeus. It's not hard to connect Osiris to Zeus or Dionysus the son of Zeus. Pan to Baal........no problem. Adonis to Tammuz..........That's why I ask a lot of questions to get people to think. How did Adonis die.....Killed by a wild boar......same as Tammuz. Imagine that.



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