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Satan is not Lucifer.

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posted on Sep, 3 2007 @ 10:30 AM
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Originally posted by whirlwind
Yes, religions are basically false. Christianity isn't a religion but a way of life. It isn't man-made.


Yes it is. Both of those things. A way of life when the footsteps of Jesus Christ are literally followed. A man-made religion in the form worshiped.

One who follows the teachings of Christ - in TRUTH - has no need to claim that they do or call themselves by his TITLE. They understand He is in us all.

Jesus the man is the ideal. Christ is the spirit which unites us in love and truth.


When you say, "God is pure spirit, remember?". I don't remember, nor do I understand. Please tell me where it is written so I can see what you mean.



But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshipers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeks such to worship him. God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
The woman said unto him, I know that Messiah comes, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things. Jesus said unto her, I that speak unto you am he.
~ John 4:23-26



Because I quoted Bullinger you believe I have a closed mind?


No. And I didn't say your mind was closed. What I said was to read the bible with an open mind. Please don't assume my suggestion contains a judgment; it does not. It is just a sincere word of advice given only because it a tried and tested method. Not just by me but by many who have come before and who are here now.


I don't "automatically quote him" and there are things I disagree with but I rely on his knowledge of what was in the original manuscript and their meaning.


I didn't say you automatically quoted him. Please re-read my post. If you rely on the knowledge of a man then you are NOT relying on the Spirit of G.O.D. Psalms 118:8

If you allow G.O.D. to bring you into agreement with the TRUTH then disagreement disappears.


I believe "Mystery Babylon" is religion, all religion.


All religions. That's basically correct except that with that you still judge OTHERS according to that and leave yourself out. We are all ONE.

There is NOT any individual soul that G.O.D. doesn't love JUST AS MUCH as He loves you. And not any that He loves more.


Why do you assume I am not guided by the Holy Spirit?


Because you are following Bullinger. You yourself wrote that you RELY on HIS knowledge. 1 John 2:27.




posted on Sep, 3 2007 @ 10:42 AM
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Originally posted by MikeboydUS
Helel in Canaanite myth is a deity and possibly an epithet of Ashtar and not the son of Shaher. He or She doesn't try to usurp the throne of the Chief deity which would be El, but sits in Baal's throne.


Excellent.


What is this Angel with wings thing?


The messenger. Mercury/Hermes/Thoth/Moses/Elijah/Jesus

All meleks. All som's (Sons Of Men)


The usage in that passage is a prophecy. Don't forget that. So it may apply to Nabonidus the last King of Babylon or a future king.


The King of Assyria. Assyrian. A Sirian. Sothis. Isis. The star that shone in the summer of 2005, rising in the east, early in the morning before the sun.
The sign of the coming Prince of PEACE.
The returning Son of Man.

I saw it....did you?

So this is real.
Sothis Isreal.
I call my son out of Egypt??
In DEED.


There is no new thing under the sun.
Everything that has been done is done.


Speaking of the sun.

Properly, it is Heliel.

Heli = sun
El = god

sun of god
G.O.D. is righteousness.


But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall. And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the LORD of hosts. Remember ye the law of Moses my servant, which I commanded unto him in Horeb for all Israel, with the statutes and judgments. Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD: And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.
~ Malachi 4:2-6



posted on Sep, 3 2007 @ 12:41 PM
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reply to post by queenannie38
 




Originally posted by whirlwind
There is good and evil,

QA - And what is the origin of BOTH?


As shown in the following verse you quoted, Is. 45:7, God is the creator:

I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
~ Isaiah 45:7

The word evil could also have been translated as "calamity, affliction, distress, etc. It doesn't have to be "evil" as we think of evil. He did however create Satan and he became evil.


WW - there is the Rock and the rock, there is Christ and the anti-christ, there is light and darkness, there is the Morning Star and the morning star.

QA- What's with the capital letters?...The translations selectively translate as well as capitalize. There was no such thing as capital letters in Hebrew. Tsor is rock. That is 'the' rock. ...And in the Greek, it is petra. Without exception.


The capital letters just show the difference in the two, the imposter and the true:

Deu.32:31 For their rock is not as our Rock, Even our enemies themselves being judges.


As far as Christ and 'THE' anti-christ....well there is absolutely NO actual phrase in the bible properly translated as 'the anti-christ.' Not ONCE is 'anti-christ' preceded by the definite article (the). Which is only 4 times written by John anyway....and when Christ mentions 'false' messiahs, which is just ONCE, it is another word entirely than the one translated 'antichrist' as written by John. To top it off, John does not mention it at all in Revelation.


It is just another name for the one he does mention in Revelation: Wormwood, the deceiver, the beast, the dragon, satan, the devil, the accuser, the old serpent.


WW - Satan comes pretending to be Christ.

QA - It does NOT say that. Men say that and men believe that. The bible says no such thing.


I believe it does.
Rev.6:2 And I saw, and behold, a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering , and to conquer.
6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood.
13:11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.

That is Satan coming to earth as Christ. Compare it to the time the true Christ arrives. In 13:11 he comes looking like the lamb but he is the dragon.

Rev.11:13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand; and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.
19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse; and He that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He doth judge and make war.

Satan will deceive many because they will believe he is Christ.


.........Whirlwind



posted on Sep, 3 2007 @ 01:40 PM
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Originally posted by whirlwind
He did however create Satan and he became evil.


Where do you find THAT in the bible?

What I find is that he created MAN.
He found that there was evil in every man's heart from his youth.


The earth also was corrupt before God, and the earth was filled with violence. And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth. And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth.
~ Genesis 6:11-13


FLESH caused violence. Not Satan. That is, if you define Satan as a spirit/daemon, etc.

Do you?


The capital letters just show the difference in the two, the imposter and the true:


According to MEN's translations, whirlwind. It was NOT written that way by the pens that were held by hands guided by the Holy Spirit.


It is just another name for the one he does mention in Revelation: Wormwood, the deceiver, the beast, the dragon, satan, the devil, the accuser, the old serpent.


Once again, according to MEN. But that was not what was meant. Not at all.



That is Satan coming to earth as Christ. Compare it to the time the true Christ arrives. In 13:11 he comes looking like the lamb but he is the dragon.


Once AGAIN, human translation/interpretation/judgment/error.


Satan will deceive many because they will believe he is Christ.


Men deceive themselves. Why add to it? It is allowed but not to torment or punish - and then we are given the spirit of Truth. Who brings all things to our remembrance.

I remember.



posted on Sep, 3 2007 @ 01:54 PM
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Originally posted by jakyll
You mentioned "false messiahs" and i was just wondering how many people know what that word really represents as well...


Thank you, jakyll! Excellent post! I was thinking about all those 'spurious' messiahs as I wrote that.


Even they served the greater purpose, though, when you think about. How much courage would be required for another Simon Bar Koba to declare himself Messiah? It has pretty much weeded out the darnel, one might say.

And so the world waits in silent fearful expectation.



Implications. The anointing meant that someone was authorized to serve God in a position of honor and responsibility. Divine enabelment often accompanied the anointing. While many were anointed, only One was given the title of "the Anointed One."""


In regard to spirit, that is true. There is only one spirit which is the Christ.
But yet in Zechariah it clearly says there are 'two anointed.' One on the left and one on the right.

Jeshua and Zerubbabel.

We've seen Jeshua (so to speak).
Soon we will see Zerubbabel.

Zerubbabel
Zero Babel
Zero Babe El?




Many men have been hailed as messiah because they have saved/freed the jewish people etc.for example....


But in the end, there was no resurrection nor did the 'world to come' arrive. And eventually all of them died or were killed.


but the "greatest" must be Arthur James Balfour,as it was his Balfour Declaration of 1917 that led to the founding of the modern state of Israel.


What about the 'holocaust.' What about the two flags approved in Germany?

One was the Star of David and the other, of course, the Swastika. And yet Rothschild and his minions decided that it didn't matter how many died, they wanted Palestine.

And what they wanted, they got. But at what price? There is no peace there for anyone one!



posted on Sep, 3 2007 @ 02:22 PM
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Originally posted by whirlwind
It is a gift from God but to receive his gift you must "show yourself approved", as you have by studying His Word and by seeking only God. If you had not done that you may have been "called by the Holy Spirit" but would you have understood to the depth you now do?


Of course not - I could not even HAVE imagined the things which I know understand - the depths of which I never even get close to in conversation with anyone else - I cannot.

I AM approved. Not by men (obviously as evidenced here on this thread)
but all things that it might appear that I do are not done by me but rather THROUGH me. A vessel, nothing more, nothing less. I said I always sought God and nothing but God. That is true.

However, I never EVER thought that I'd someday have my nose so deep in the bible that I wouldn't come up for air for nearly 3 years. Nor did I WANT such a thing. Yet that is exactly what happened.

One day, out of the blue (or so it seemed at the time), something compelled me to start reading. And I could not, for the life of me, stop until it was time to stop. Not that I have stopped; what I mean is that until all became clear, my sole focus was so singular that there was no mistake, in my mind, that it was not at all my desires or will that led me to open the book in the first place. It's a looooooong story - that's the condensed version.


Suffice it to say that one thing leads to another and there is but one destination for us all.


I don't believe we are living in the millennium now. I've read points pro and con. The destruction of Jerusalem was not what Christ referenced when He told us of the end of days. It isn't far but it is not yet.


The idea of 'a thousand years' is not actual time but rather the symbolic representation of an angel - men, as flesh, are 'tens' and men's souls are 'hundreds' but the the immortal spirit is represented as 'thousand.'

The 144,000
12 x 12 x 1000
The length, breadth, and width of New Jerusalem.
The measure of a man, that is, the angel.
Revelation 21:17


I do know that the "book of life" is the Bible and I feel that my name is written there, I pray it is.


It is, my dear, it is. Rest assured that it is.
I would not say that if it were not so.


I have that peace too - it is indescribable. You are right in that only God can open the eyes of others but it is up to us to plant seeds - He will, or will not, make them germinate.


Good. I am so glad to know that.

Yet remember this, and do not forget:


So then neither is he that plants any thing, neither he that waters; but God that gives the increase.
Now he that plants and he that waters are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labor.
For we are laborers together with God: you are God's husbandry, you are God's building.
According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another builds thereon.
But let every man take heed how he builds thereupon.
For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
~ 1 Corinthians 3:7-11


God is not going to leave ANYONE out. Not ANYONE.



posted on Sep, 3 2007 @ 02:57 PM
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reply to post by queenannie38
 


Freedom usually has a price,like all things in the world today.And the jews it seems,will have their "promised land" no matter what.

But i think that comes down to the differences in the scriptures.the Hebrews have always looked for someone to lead them from oppression and bondage,by violence if necessary.the christians look for someone to lead them to salvation through peace.its like the hebrew saviour is for the physical world,the christian saviour for the spiritual.

As for the holocaust.i'd need to start a new thread to go on about that! lol.

[edit on 3-9-2007 by jakyll]



posted on Sep, 3 2007 @ 03:30 PM
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To add my 2 cents to this thread:

Mike is right. Satan is not Lucifer.


Ha Satan is the porsecutor. But Mike you are wrong if you blieve Satan hates mankind. He is more like a lawyer. Or an actor who plays his role.

By the way Mike. Do you know the connection between Ha Satan and Moshiach? Or the Letter VAV?



posted on Sep, 3 2007 @ 04:41 PM
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Originally posted by jakyll
But i think that comes down to the differences in the scriptures.the Hebrews have always looked for someone to lead them from oppression and bondage,by violence if necessary.the christians look for someone to lead them to salvation through peace.its like the hebrew saviour is for the physical world,the christian saviour for the spiritual.


Yes.

Yet indeed don't we ALL need ALL of those things?

freedom from oppression, bondage, and violence = peace

All of it rolled into ONE. How convenient that would be. And miraculous!


As for the holocaust.i'd need to start a new thread to go on about that! lol.




Maybe you'd better not.



posted on Sep, 3 2007 @ 04:53 PM
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Originally posted by Gen-X
To add my 2 cents to this thread:

Mike is right. Satan is not Lucifer.


Ha Satan is the porsecutor. But Mike you are wrong if you blieve Satan hates mankind. He is more like a lawyer. Or an actor who plays his role.

By the way Mike. Do you know the connection between Ha Satan and Moshiach? Or the Letter VAV?


At least from a human point of view there seems to be some Antipathy towards humanity based on his behavior in the Book of Job.

Enlighten me on this connection. I dont seem to be familiar with it. Broken Vav?


[edit on 3/9/07 by MikeboydUS]



posted on Sep, 3 2007 @ 05:02 PM
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reply to post by queenannie38
 


Yeah,we all need that.even scientists! lol.

Just want to point out that i'm not one of those ignorant holocaust deniers or anything.people just don't like it when they correct their belief of nazi history.lol.

You seem like a very mellow believer of...whatever it is you believe in,lol.so can i ask you what you think of buddhists? strange question,i know.its just that i have morman missionaries living near me and we often have debates about many different subjects.and yesterday i was asking them about other faiths and how their god would deal with them.and i said buddhism is almost the "perfect" religion.but they were like--yeah,their good,especially the monks,but their still going to hell! me too,if i keep on being an atheist and believing buddhism is almost "perfect".lol.

I just can't picture Jesus condemning good people just because they have a different faith! if you achieve inner peace,if your at one with the world etc.does it really matter what the faith is?



posted on Sep, 3 2007 @ 05:10 PM
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reply to post by Gen-X
 


I know you asked mikeboyd,hope you don't mind if i answer...

Moshiach is one of the hebrew spellings for messiah.

and i found this out about VAV....

"""In the beginning of Creation, when Infinite Light filled all reality, G d contracted His Light to create hollow empty space, as it were, the "place" necessary for the existence of finite worlds. Into this vacuum God drew down, figuratively speaking, a single line of light, from the Infinite Source. This ray of light is the secret of the letter vav. Though the line is singular in appearance, it nonetheless possesses two dimensions, an external as well as an internal force, both of which take part in the process of Creation and the continuous interaction between the creative power and created reality.

The external force of the line is the power to differentiate and separate the various aspects of reality, thereby establishing hierarchical order, up and down, within Creation. The internal force of the line is the power to reveal the inherent interinclusion of the various aspects of reality, one in the other, thereby joining them together as an organic whole. This property of the letter vav, in its usage in Hebrew, is referred to as vav hachibur, the vav of connection"--"and." The first vav of the Torah--"In the beginning G d created the heavens and [vav] the earth"--serves to join spirit and matter, heaven and the earth, throughout Creation. This vav, which appears at the beginning of the sixth word of the Torah, is the twenty-second letter of the verse. It alludes to the power to connect and interrelate all twenty-two individual powers of Creation, the twenty-two letters of the Hebrew alphabet from alef to tav. (The word et [which appears before the two instances of the word "the" in this verse, and is spelled alef-tav] is generally taken to represent all the letters of the alphabet, from alef to tav. Our Sages interpret the word in this verse to include all the various objects of Creation present within heaven and earth.)

In Biblical Hebrew, the letter vav also possesses the function of inverting the apparent tense of a verb to its opposite from past to future or from future to past (vav hahipuch). The first appearance of this type of vav in the Torah is the letter vav" which begins the twenty-second word of the account of Creation, "And God said...." This is the first explicit saying of the ten sayings of Creation: "And G d said [the verb 'said' being inverted from the future to the past tense by the vav at the beginning of the word--'And']: 'Let there be light,' and there was light." The phenomenon of light breaking through the darkness of the tzimtzum, the primordial contraction, is itself the secret of time (future becoming past) which permeates space."""


from,The Mystical Significance
of the Hebrew Letters.



posted on Sep, 3 2007 @ 05:51 PM
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reply to post by queenannie38
 


Originally posted by whirlwind
Yes, religions are basically false. Christianity isn't a religion but a way of life. It isn't man-made.

QA - Yes it is. Both of those things. A way of life when the footsteps of Jesus Christ are literally followed. A man-made religion in the form worshiped.


What do you mean by "in the form worshipped"? If you are part of "organized religion", a Christian church, I could understand that. If you worship in your home, praying to Father and following, as best you can, His Commandments would you still consider that "religion".


One who follows the teachings of Christ - in TRUTH - has no need to claim that they do or call themselves by his TITLE. They understand He is in us all....Jesus the man is the ideal. Christ is the spirit which unites us in love and truth.


I believe it is necessary to call ourself by His title - Christian. If you walk in His path others may see and wish to be part of that. Identifying who we are will further spread His name. We should know who we are whether we wear His name or not as Satan knows us. We are who he will come after.

Rev.12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

The remnant of her seed is Israel, all 12 tribes. We keep His commandments and some of the tribes have the testimony of Jesus.


WW - When you say, "God is pure spirit, remember?". I don't remember, nor do I understand. Please tell me where it is written so I can see what you mean.

QA - But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshipers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeks such to worship him. God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
The woman said unto him, I know that Messiah comes, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things. Jesus said unto her, I that speak unto you am he.
~ John 4:23-26


To me, this is speaking of dimensions. God is spirit and we can't see Him until we are in that dimension, when we also are spirit. Jesus was made flesh so we could see Him.


QA - If you allow G.O.D. to bring you into agreement with the TRUTH then disagreement disappears.


You have stated that before. I assume you mean bring me into agreement with your truth and the disagreement would disappear. You realize it would also disappear if you came into agreement with what I believe is truth too. Both of us feel we have the truth, as led by the Holy Spirit, and yet we disagree.


WW - I believe "Mystery Babylon" is religion, all religion.

QA - All religions. That's basically correct except that with that you still judge OTHERS according to that and leave yourself out. We are all ONE.There is NOT any individual soul that G.O.D. doesn't love JUST AS MUCH as He loves you. And not any that He loves more.


I don't judge but I do discern. Of course He loves everyone and wants everyone to love Him. Will they? There are conditions.


1John 5:11. And this is the record, That God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in His Son.
12.He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.



WW - Why do you assume I am not guided by the Holy Spirit?

QA - Because you are following Bullinger. You yourself wrote that you RELY on HIS knowledge. 1 John 2:27.


I rely on his knowledge of how the original manuscripts were translated or mistranslated and will add, the meaning of the words from Hebrew, Greek and Aramaic, as given in Strong's Concordance. Consider that the Holy Spirit may have guided me to them for greater understanding?



.........Whirlwind



posted on Sep, 3 2007 @ 06:02 PM
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reply to post by whirlwind
 


"""I don't judge but I do discern. Of course He loves everyone and wants everyone to love Him. Will they? There are conditions."""

Don't you think love should be unconditional?
Whether that is love between 2 people or love between human and god.



posted on Sep, 3 2007 @ 06:43 PM
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reply to post by queenannie38
 


Originally posted by whirlwind
He did however create Satan and he became evil.

QA - Where do you find THAT in the bible?

What I find is that he created MAN. He found that there was evil in every man's heart from his youth.

The earth also was corrupt before God, and the earth was filled with violence. And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth. And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth.
~ Genesis 6:11-13

FLESH caused violence. Not Satan. That is, if you define Satan as a spirit/daemon, etc.

Do you?


He created everything and everyone and that would include Satan. I would define evil as Satan rebelling and taking others with him. Satan continues that evil in this age and it began in the Garden when he tempted Eve.

In Gen. 6: man became evil when they mixed with the fallen angels and God destroyed them. So....the "flesh that caused violence" was because it mixed with fallen angels, of whom Satan was the leader.

A description of Satan? A very wise, beautiful angel of light with an enormous ego that tried to do whatever he could to stop the line that gave us Christ. Failing that, he now tries to take all souls he can away from God with deception. He is supernatural, can work miracles and is very powerful as he is prince of this world age.


WW - The capital letters just show the difference in the two, the imposter and the true:

QA - According to MEN's translations, whirlwind. It was NOT written that way by the pens that were held by hands guided by the Holy Spirit.


I have only seen one scripture, so far, that I would disagree with how the captials were used in He and Him. Again, you assume they weren't also led by the Holy Spirit in the translation.


WW - It is just another name for the one he does mention in Revelation: Wormwood, the deceiver, the beast, the dragon, satan, the devil, the accuser, the old serpent.

QA - Once again, according to MEN. But that was not what was meant. Not at all.


What was meant if not that?


WW - That is Satan coming to earth as Christ. Compare it to the time the true Christ arrives. In 13:11 he comes looking like the lamb but he is the dragon.

QA - Once AGAIN, human translation/interpretation/judgment/error.


Once again, what was meant if not that?


WW - Satan will deceive many because they will believe he is Christ.

QA - Men deceive themselves. Why add to it? It is allowed but not to torment or punish - and then we are given the spirit of Truth. Who brings all things to our remembrance....I remember.


I don't believe it is to torment or punish but to see who has read the letter God sent. Christ tells us what will happen in the end of days in three of the gospels and warns us that He doesn't arrive until after the working of Satan. We must wait for Him.

If you remember you are blessed. For those of us who don't He wrote a letter.


........Whirlwind



posted on Sep, 3 2007 @ 06:52 PM
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reply to post by queenannie38
 



God is not going to leave ANYONE out. Not ANYONE.


He will give everyone a chance but not all will accept Him. Even after the millennium, after all have been taught without the influence of Satan, there will be many that follow Satan.

Rev. 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8.And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9.And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city; and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.


He wants all to love Him but they will not.


........Whirlwind



posted on Sep, 3 2007 @ 06:54 PM
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Originally posted by jakyll
reply to post by Gen-X
 


I know you asked mikeboyd,hope you don't mind if i answer...

Moshiach is one of the hebrew spellings for messiah.

and i found this out about VAV....

"""In the beginning of Creation, when Infinite Light filled all reality, G d contracted His Light to create hollow empty space, as it were, the "place" necessary for the existence of finite worlds. Into this vacuum God drew down, figuratively speaking, a single line of light, from the Infinite Source. This ray of light is the secret of the letter vav. Though the line is singular in appearance, it nonetheless possesses two dimensions, an external as well as an internal force, both of which take part in the process of Creation and the continuous interaction between the creative power and created reality.

The external force of the line is the power to differentiate and separate the various aspects of reality, thereby establishing hierarchical order, up and down, within Creation. The internal force of the line is the power to reveal the inherent interinclusion of the various aspects of reality, one in the other, thereby joining them together as an organic whole. This property of the letter vav, in its usage in Hebrew, is referred to as vav hachibur, the vav of connection"--"and." The first vav of the Torah--"In the beginning G d created the heavens and [vav] the earth"--serves to join spirit and matter, heaven and the earth, throughout Creation. This vav, which appears at the beginning of the sixth word of the Torah, is the twenty-second letter of the verse. It alludes to the power to connect and interrelate all twenty-two individual powers of Creation, the twenty-two letters of the Hebrew alphabet from alef to tav. (The word et [which appears before the two instances of the word "the" in this verse, and is spelled alef-tav] is generally taken to represent all the letters of the alphabet, from alef to tav. Our Sages interpret the word in this verse to include all the various objects of Creation present within heaven and earth.)

In Biblical Hebrew, the letter vav also possesses the function of inverting the apparent tense of a verb to its opposite from past to future or from future to past (vav hahipuch). The first appearance of this type of vav in the Torah is the letter vav" which begins the twenty-second word of the account of Creation, "And God said...." This is the first explicit saying of the ten sayings of Creation: "And G d said [the verb 'said' being inverted from the future to the past tense by the vav at the beginning of the word--'And']: 'Let there be light,' and there was light." The phenomenon of light breaking through the darkness of the tzimtzum, the primordial contraction, is itself the secret of time (future becoming past) which permeates space."""


from,The Mystical Significance
of the Hebrew Letters.


Ive read this before. I couldnt find any connection from it. The Broken Vav on the other hand seems to be related.

[edit on 3/9/07 by MikeboydUS]



posted on Sep, 3 2007 @ 06:59 PM
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reply to post by jakyll
 



WW - """I don't judge but I do discern. Of course He loves everyone and wants everyone to love Him. Will they? There are conditions."""

Jakyll - Don't you think love should be unconditional?
Whether that is love between 2 people or love between human and god.


No I don't but it doesn't matter what I believe. It is what He tells us it us. God has emotions too. He gives us every opportunity to love Him, He gives us everything and yet what do we do?

You must ask yourself what you would do if you gave everything, including your Son to be crucified for others and those others turned their backs. How would you feel?


......Whirlwind



posted on Sep, 3 2007 @ 07:05 PM
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Originally posted by whirlwind
You have stated that before. I assume you mean bring me into agreement with your truth and the disagreement would disappear.


Not at all! I don't consider the discussion between you and I to be a disagreement. I really don't 'subscribe' to that word anymore because I realize that it is only a matter of each of us being a different mile-marker, so to speak, on the same road. The road to G.O.D.

I don't expect you to agree with me at all; I would be a fool to think that would happen with ANYONE on this forum, in any thread. I'm not here to convince anyone of anything, including myself.

I am just trying to show you things from a different perspective than the one that you are STUCK in...and yes you ARE stuck. You do not see that but it is apparent from the way that you just insist and insist on what you already BELIEVE to be true.

All that matters is that we LOVE GOD and LOVE eachother.
ALL.


Both of us feel we have the truth, as led by the Holy Spirit, and yet we disagree.


I'm sorry, but you can't know that I feel I have the truth. I don't. The truth is the same for all of us - we all have truth. I mean that on the spiritual level.

However there is something else called 'facts.' Such as what is written down as particular words - and I don't even mean as far as the nuances of definitions go.

There are many things that you are stuck on, in this thread, that are not even supported, by the bible, as far as plain old ABC's are concerned.


I don't judge but I do discern. Of course He loves everyone and wants everyone to love Him. Will they? There are conditions.


To God's love?

No.
God's love is perfect.



posted on Sep, 3 2007 @ 07:20 PM
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Originally posted by whirlwind
He will give everyone a chance but not all will accept Him.


See, right there, in THAT sentence is the perfect example of what I am trying to show you.

The bible SAYS, in plain old black and white, accurately and consistently translated, the following:


I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.
~ Isaiah 45:23


And then Paul cited it twice more.

GOD SAID that every knee shall bow. ALL. EVERY.

Men would like us to think that God is going to leave some of us out or let it be that part of his creation will be trashed. That's BS! He loves us ALL.

NO MATTER what WE DO
HE loves us all without condition.
Now it is time for us to do the same with one another.

Even if we don't think there is a GOD, we are still His creation. Atheists are from the same place as zealots, prophets, and priests.

God is faithful.


Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
~ 1 Timothy 2:4-6


ALL men
The sun shines on us all, my dear.
God loves us all - just the way we are - after all who knows us better than God! Not even ourselves! How could a perfect God make an imperfect creation and then count part of it as a loss? The bible, properly understood, makes it plain that it is ALL up to Him and His hands are the mightiest of all that IS.



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