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Forget about Christ Angel, what about Derren Brown!

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posted on Aug, 17 2007 @ 01:44 PM
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In other words, you are a terrible bluffer. Do not ever go to Vegas and play poker, you would leave without your clothes. You state over and over that you know all the inside dope but all you say is " there are four ways.." blah,blah, blah..and never list them. you have done exactly what I said you would do; make claims and then fail to give any rational answer, just like all the others. Busted. Nothing we have not already torn apart already; you really should read a thread before repeating old nonsense. A waste of time and effort.

You now will run and pretend that we are all ignorant and fooled, yet you fail to see the obvious lack of substance in your reply. WHAT are the ways that Criss did the Luxor event? tell us. No more silly diversions, just an answer please. Tell us how he made that coin travel under his skin before cutting it out. you claim to know, so stop stalling and list the ways 1. 2. 3.4. JUST LIKE YOU SAID YOU KNOW. C'mon now, no slipping away, just list the four ways so we can be educated.

Of course all you can do is parrot the other deniers who have offered NOTHING more than accusations of props where none are evident and all the other nonsense. you really did not read this thread at all, just jumped in and now must retreat to save face.

We are to believe that you have all this info but are unwilling to share it, right? And picking parts outr of a video that have NOTHING to do with the facts is just like the others empty posters efforts. Pavil and you and a few others simply CANNOT comprehend this so you cast aspersions and then flee.

I did not ' diss ' you, your commnets are just so telling, so lacking in substance that they deserve no respect from us. People deserve respect, but spurious allegations and statements without foundation or credibility do not.We have been thru this before and with people that come up with far more detailed silliness than you have; you just claim to know but in reality you are guessing just like the rest of the deniers. We are not guessing, we KNOW that there are no props on the Luxor event or many others.

We have heard every silly claim about the platforms that are invisible, the helicopters that are never seen, the wires that hang from open sky, the paid off legions of witnesses, all of it; NOT ONE single excuse has been validated or is even likley given the evidence presented. We are just able to pin the deniers down and alow no intellectual wiggle room; when you demand a certain level of common sense and liklehood, that is when the deniers get mad and puff and spout and run; they are upset because it is embarrassing to be pointed out as totally lacking in the essential elements of proof and evidence.

Enough said: Tell us the ways that Criss did the Luxor event in a way that is likley or possible under the circumstances and according to all available evidence. if that is asking too much, then do not be suprised when your posts are ignored and given little credence. repeating the old lines that the denier's before you have given is just boring and does not contribute to the relevance of the reality we are witnessing.

There are NO discrepancies in any video from Criss Angel; any questions can be addressed to his production company for answers, but until that is donw to assume that there is evidence of props is disingenuous and dishonest to the extreme. ALL of the evidence says that Criss uses no props in some events, NONE of the evidence sugests otherwise. If that means somehting different to you than to us you may want to examine your interpretive and analytical skills before claiming that it is WE who are wrong!!




posted on Aug, 17 2007 @ 02:10 PM
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I just read Badge01's latest and after I got done laughing, I just had to finish him off. PaulRichard, you are so right. He just doesn't know because he did not read the thread , obviously.

His assertions are all totally invalid and impossible. totally worthless. There is NO evidence whatsoever to back up that fantasy he projects. He is basically saying that a massive conspiracy among various hotels, hundreds of people, and camera/film people were all arranged!!This logic is funny!! All of these people are loyal to the death for Criss and never tell!! In addition, we have plexiglas that cannot be seen, wires that hang from hotels that cannot be seen even under the most powerful light in existence; all I was waiting for was the ' hologram from a space based satellite ' to be next!! That might be more feasible than what he proposed!!

I hate to embarrass anyone but if a person does not read a thread and jumps in, they get no mercy; We get no mercy from the Denier's, rabid defenders of the ridiculous and impossible, so turn about is fair play. Nothing personal though, all in good fun!!

The longer this drags on, the more ludicrous the excuses get; the people with no evidence can only linger so long before it becomes painfully apparent that they are causing themselves to be the object of embarrassing dismissal as a serious contender. Sure, anyone can post any foolishness as long as they want, but if the point is to convince the average person as to the validity of a particular point of view, then only seriously possible and LIKELY posts can be given ANY respect at all.

Here is the rub: These rabid denier's simply ignore the LIKELIHOOD of a possibility; to them all things are equal!! Amazing!! They do not see that in order to accomplish the event the way they foresee, it would require so much and so many angles and exposures to failure and such; it is MORE likley that a man can levitate, given all historical evidence, than it is to assume that a person could use all those props and all those people and still pull off the event as seen . The odds are so far out for their side that it is nonsese to suggest the things they do.

But they are not analyzing, they are just throwing out remote and crazy ' possibilities ' ( despite the fact that there is NO evidence to support those possibilities!!) and then act as if they were actually valid approaches!! That is typical of level one thinking; it takes level 2 ands 3 to accept new realities and to recognize your ability to discern anything at all from any evidence. It takes an open mind to even begin to grasp this and so the closed minded a are at a loss to explain it away and so resort to the type of silly excuses we hear coming from their side.

More videos soon, PR, that will nail it down for the people able to discern.

in the future, I pray that the Denier's can come up with some better representation than this; Something actually feasible and possible would be nice, or maybe an excuse that does not ask us to stretch our minds any more than required to believe in what we see. NEXT!!



posted on Aug, 17 2007 @ 02:19 PM
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You post sounds so desperate that it's difficult not to humor you, but as I said, it's not worth my time to post youtube links.

The majority of CA's stunts are detailed there if you care to look.

The coin traveled down the arm under the fake latex skin using a piece of monofiliament line. The edges of the latex were concealed under the wrist watch band.

The Luxor stunt is easily explained - he was raised up on a Lexan post that is made all but invisible by the light. If you look at the video you'll see the platform as a white line under his feet when the camera zooms past.



[edit on 17-8-2007 by Badge01]



posted on Aug, 17 2007 @ 03:22 PM
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That guy who shot a hole in his hand, maybe he was able to do that thanks to the wonders of illicit drugs like PCP or Meth.
It is not a serious wound anyway, and he may have done it just to draw viewers to him. It likely will do that.
I saw Angel take a gunshot into his mouth.
And, of course, both Angel and Copperfield have cut themselves completely in two, which is far more serious than a pierced hand.



posted on Aug, 17 2007 @ 06:05 PM
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Hi,

I am usually loathe to go 'off topic' or engage in a thread hijack, but I have to respond to the poster that was incredulous that others believed that such a huge amount of people would engage in a conspiracy to avoid Angel's being found out.

There are two problems with that from my perspective.

1) Most people don't care. At all. If I didn't read this thread and I saw Criss Angel using a step ladder in his levitation trick I wouldn't have cared enough to tell anyone. Really, unless you have a vested interest, who cares?

2) I think that the conspiracy that would be harder to believe would be the one of his acolytes who are not telling people that he has supernatural powers. That strikes me as being hard to believe.

Eric



posted on Aug, 17 2007 @ 06:37 PM
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You guys are amateur hour all the way..latex skin, platforms..nonsense. there is NO platform there or seen, that video has been examined many times. Also, I called the Luxor and spoke to the engineering boss who told me that there were NO props or alterations to the hotel, nothing up there but Criss and the light, no machines , platforms, etc. Call the Luxor yourself and ask for Scott Haze, Engineering.

You are way out of your element here, boys. Please do not bother posting this drivel on the Criss thread, you will just be ambarrassed. I have wasted enough time here, so long. I have better things to do than lecture elementary school kids about calculus, they just cannot comprehend.



posted on Aug, 17 2007 @ 07:22 PM
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I actually prefer Derren Brown over Criss angel.

Criss Angel annoys me with his stupid lisp, not to mention that his tricks are so fake it's ridiculous.

I like the fact that Brown experiments with psychology and other mind tactics in order to pull off his tricks.

[edit on 17-8-2007 by thehumbleone]



posted on Aug, 17 2007 @ 08:56 PM
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Well, personally I like Criss Angel's show. Criss is different, yes. But that doesn't make his performances any less spectacular.

Derren's show; like I said before, the show is interesting, but I don't like the techniques he uses. His show "is" called "Mind Control." He basically shows that there are some people succeptible to "Mind Control." If "he" can get people to robot to his positive suggestions via hypnosis, what makes you think this sordid technology can't be used on a large scale, or isn't already being used on a large scale, by folks in high positions? Yes, hypnosis can be powerful, and yes it can get a result or two, but it can become a unwieldy beast and create mentally sick people. The part of the mind it relies on is not something to toy with. A person who is acting upon a positive suggestion is being a robot to that suggestion. He is not acting "consciously." Positive suggestions can enter into your mind by accident, not just hypnosis, so the mind could be full of such suggestions. Again, you do not want to stir around in that part of your mind. Derren just plays with the stuff. It's just not cool. I mean, one of his implanted "I can't move my leg" positive suggestions might just come into play in the right circumstances and create, perhaps, a crippled person. Basically, you will have a guy who believes he cannot move his leg.

Troy



posted on Aug, 17 2007 @ 09:06 PM
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reply to post by cybertroy
 


Hmm, I never thought of it that way, good post.

What exactly is a "positive suggestion?"

Could you elaborate more?

[edit on 17-8-2007 by thehumbleone]



posted on Aug, 17 2007 @ 10:19 PM
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Originally posted by Badge01
You post sounds so desperate that it's difficult not to humor you, but as I said, it's not worth my time to post youtube links.

The majority of CA's stunts are detailed there if you care to look.

The coin traveled down the arm under the fake latex skin using a piece of monofiliament line. The edges of the latex were concealed under the wrist watch band.

[edit on 17-8-2007 by Badge01]


I think Criss is great. Everyone can sing, but not everyone is a great singer, same as magic. Criss is very talented and has devoted his life to perfecting his craft. I have said that a magician stage is any where he decides to have it, and so the David Copperfield stage thing is false logic to think his is fake only because he performed on a real stage, and Criss is real since he doesn't do magic the traditional way

What bothers me a little are people who are 100% convince that Cress is real without actually seeing it in an environment that would prove it without a shadow of a doubt. For me, levitating above the Luxor has nowhere near the impact as it would be for him to walk into my house and levitate a foot. It really doesn’t have anything to do with me not willing to see for I just need to see it in a situation that doesn’t allow for any other explanation.

Take that guy who shoots himself in the hand. Does he really shoot a hole through his hand or does he load a .22 bullet with a very low amount of powder to give a bang but with not enough force for the bullet pass through his hand, and then skillfully Photoshop the wound with the hole and everything. This is a question that cannot be answered with just the video as proof. If I handed him my gun and then he blew a hole through his hand then I could be assured 100% that he did it.

Criss is like this too for until he can perform his acts in a way that prevents any other conclusion other than he actually levitates you cannot be 100% assured it is real. Blaine is also the same way, for people only see what he wants them to see. His trick of floating 3 inches is actually done with cleverly placed mirrors on the inside of his heal. He needs everyone to be in a good position and he sells the act with his skill to act like it drains a ton of energy from him, but all he does is lift the front part of his foot while resting on his heels. The mirrors under his shoes in front of each heel give the illusion that the back part of his foot has also floated up with the front. His street magic is tricky and does not always work, but then they can pick the best cuts and put just those in his show.

I know that Badge01 and others like me cannot convince the believers of a real Criss in any way that just maybe he is a great magician and nothing more, but I do hope that you all do not stop from continuing to explore his skill so that one day you can see and experienced these feat in such a way that there is no other explanation. If I had as deep rooted feelings as you all do I would make it a personal journey of mine to truly validate it.


[edit on 17-8-2007 by Xtrozero]



posted on Aug, 17 2007 @ 10:38 PM
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Originally posted by eyewitness86
You guys are amateur hour all the way..latex skin, platforms..nonsense. there is NO platform there or seen, that video has been examined many times. Also, I called the Luxor and spoke to the engineering boss who told me that there were NO props or alterations to the hotel, nothing up there but Criss and the light, no machines , platforms, etc. Call the Luxor yourself and ask for Scott Haze, Engineering.

You are way out of your element here, boys. Please do not bother posting this drivel on the Criss thread, you will just be ambarrassed. I have wasted enough time here, so long. I have better things to do than lecture elementary school kids about calculus, they just cannot comprehend.


BTW eyewitness86 who do you think you are? You cannot post without belittling everyone who doesn't have your view. Maybe if you actually knew calculus and had a drop of critical thinking you might just be in OUR league. Please enlighten me All Knowing with your powers.

You my friend have some serious issues about all this. Other than saying total absolutes about something that is not absolute can you say or do one thing that may convince us? Just the thought of using a video as absolute proof in today’s technological world shows just how weak your argument is, and no matter how many CAPS you use to type these absolute statements it still doesn’t make a TV show 100% undeniablely real.


[edit on 18-8-2007 by Xtrozero]



posted on Aug, 17 2007 @ 11:51 PM
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Originally posted by Xtrozero
You my friend have some serious issues about all this. ...Just the thought of using a video as absolute proof in today’s technological world show just how weak your argument is...it still doesn’t make a TV show 100% undeniablely real.


Right on.
You know it's really scary to think about how someone today could easily use these methods to convince a significant part of the populace to believe they were the "real thing". Even more so since guys like Brown tell everyone up-front that what they are doing is a stunt/trick/illusion and some people still insist they have "Magic" powers.
Imagine what could happen if someone really diabolical (The proverbial Beast?) used these methods to try and get the masses to follow him to Armageddon. Would it be that unthinkable, judging from some of what we've seen posted here? Would it be that hard for some madman to sway enough people to follow him to some hysterical apocalypse? Scary.

(Believe in Christos Angel and he will forgive)

[edit on 17-8-2007 by passenger]



posted on Aug, 17 2007 @ 11:58 PM
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Originally posted by passenger

Originally posted by Xtrozero
You my friend have some serious issues about all this. ...Just the thought of using a video as absolute proof in today’s technological world show just how weak your argument is...it still doesn’t make a TV show 100% undeniablely real.


Right on.
You know it's really scary to think about how someone today could easily use these methods to convince a significant part of the populace to believe they were the "real thing". Even more so since guys like Brown tell everyone up-front that what they are doing is a stunt/trick/illusion and some people still insist they have "Magic" powers.
Imagine what could happen if someone really diabolical (The proverbial Beast?) used these methods to try and get the masses to follow him to Armageddon. Would it be that unthinkable, judging from some of what we've seen posted here? Would it be that hard for some madman to sway enough people to follow him to some hysterical apocalypse? Scary.

(Believe in Christos Angel and he will forgive)

[edit on 17-8-2007 by passenger]


It is called Iraq my friend, been there and seen 10,000s quickly and quite easily convienced



posted on Aug, 18 2007 @ 12:21 AM
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I agree that Chris Angel just sells himself very well, and most likely doesn't have any supernatural abilities. As for the other person you mentioned, I have to look into it, I haven't heard of him before.



posted on Aug, 18 2007 @ 09:00 AM
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Criss Angel isnt a very good magician,he uses stooges,camera effects and imo poor sleights.
Its good laymen get fooled by him but most of his stuff is second hand and isnt that convincing or doesn't require much training or skill.(coin under skin trick!,levitations,etc)
He's like a poor mans Copperfield,but trendy for the MTV kids.
He seems really up his own ass and in love with himself too which isnt a great trait.

Derrens stuff is much more hard hitting and requires great practice,confidence and wordplay.
Good Mentalism and forms of hypnosis cant be learnt overnight and is much more harder to master than the packet tricks Angel uses.
I've met Derren and been to some of his shows,he doesnt use plants and is always coming up with new ideas.
A much better performer imho.Funny and spellbinding.



posted on Aug, 18 2007 @ 06:02 PM
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Criss Angel is an illusionist. Get over yourselves.

www.tvsquad.com...

www.metacafe.com...

[edit on 18/8/07 by Smokersroom]



posted on Aug, 18 2007 @ 07:21 PM
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I agree with the above and to think otherwise is fantasy imho.
People who think Angel is some sort of wizard using the forces of chi,dark side,untapped brain energy etc need to look into real magician techniques and then realise it is what is.... manipulated moves to fool the eye.Simple as.
Practice is needed and Angel needs to practice more imo.



posted on Aug, 18 2007 @ 07:44 PM
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Originally posted by Kilgour
I agree with the above and to think otherwise is fantasy imho.
People who think Angel is some sort of wizard using the forces of chi,dark side,untapped brain energy etc need to look into real magician techniques and then realise it is what is.... manipulated moves to fool the eye.Simple as.
Practice is needed and Angel needs to practice more imo.

Yeah...500 feet is not high enough for his levitations, and he should also levitate others - high - around or rather over golf courses, city sidewalks, and parks, and he should get a special license in order to do that.




[edit on 18-8-2007 by Paul_Richard]



posted on Aug, 19 2007 @ 12:25 AM
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thehumbleone,

I think my terminology is a little off. "Positive" in "positive suggestion" seems to just be an adjective, describing the type of suggestion as being a "positive" one. The word "positive" doesn't really apply. Like, "You will be relaxed in stressfull situations," could be a positive suggestion.

----------------------------

Suggestion is defined like this:

suggestion - The process of influencing a patient to accept an idea, belief, or attitude suggested by the therapist.

Referenced from here:
www.abess.com...

-----------------------------

Also, it is defined:

suggestion (sug·ges·tion) (səg-jes´chən) [L. suggestio] 1. the act of offering an idea for action or for consideration of action. 2. an idea so offered. 3. in psychiatry, the process of causing uncritical acceptance of an idea.

hypnotic s. a suggestion imparted to a person in the hypnotic state, by which he is induced to alter perceptions or memory or to perform actions.

posthypnotic s. implantation in the mind of a subject during hypnosis of a suggestion to be acted upon after recovery from the hypnotic state.


Referenced from here:

www.mercksource.com...

----------------------

Take the #3 definition in the above source, "mercksource.com." You will see "in psychiatry, the process of causing uncritical acceptance of an idea." Notice the "uncritical acceptance" part of the definition. Yes, folks, if you wanted to find some of the people would be behind such things as "mass mind control," you would find some of the folks who are in the field of psychiatry.

This being said, despite the charm that Derren exibits, and as unique and entertaining as the show is, I can't say that I support the show. It kind of makes a statement of, "we can control you." I bet Derren could get some folks to jump off of a cliff, or shoot dozens of bystanders if he wanted to.

The problem with hypnosis and suggestion is that it is used outside your conscious thinking, and you become a robot to it. Sure, it might make some people quit smoking, but it can also create irrational behavior, sometimes accidentally. It sucks for some folks to be in this position where they can be controlled like this.

Troy



posted on Aug, 19 2007 @ 12:06 PM
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Derren Brown is a genius, I love his show. He doesn't believe in mediums or any supernatural happenings and basically started doing his shows to prove "ghosthunters" "mediums" and "psychics" are just con artists that know some simple psychological techniques. He says he has no powers, he often sets out to prove such powers don't exist and he usually shows exactly how he did things after the trick. He is nothing but a very intelligent man with a great knowledge of psychology and human behaviour.

On the subject of levitation, the classic method is to use colour filters on cameras and then use wide strapping in the colour of the filter to lift the performer up, if the strapping is wide enough, or put in the right places, there are no visible marks on the skin or affecting the clothing. Another method is the use of mirrors. I won't say levitation is not possible, because it may well be (although that still doesn't mean anyone can actually do it), but I find it highly unlikely.

As for this Criss Angel dude, have any of you that claim he can levitate ever seen him do it in person? I suspect not, and therefore I doubt he can do it. If he really can, he should go and stand in a flat, empty field with no trees or buildings around and levitate there. Observers should be a selection of random people, scientists and celebrities and with recording equipment supplied by an external source to ensure it is not tampered with. It should be broadcast live, with proof of live broadcast. Then and only then would I believe, unless I saw him do it in person.



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