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Forget about Christ Angel, what about Derren Brown!

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posted on Aug, 16 2007 @ 02:53 PM
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I, for one, am now thoroughly convinced.
I would like to be the first Apostle of Christos Angel and will gladly risk having myself stoned and/or crucified in his behalf.
XtroZero and his heathern ilk will soon suffer the consequences of our New Inquisition, that will root out such blasphemous heretics and send them to the nether regions. How dare he profane Cristos Angel with his
ignorant ramblings of prosaic explanations of CLEAR MIRACLES?!

(I wonder if this is how Jesus got started?)

P.S. The Sun DOES revolve around the Earth, and Cristos Angel is at it's center.

[edit on 16-8-2007 by passenger]




posted on Aug, 16 2007 @ 02:53 PM
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Originally posted by Paul_Richard

I smell a red herring.


Thirdly, is this supposed device also responsible for Criss Angel's high levitations?

If it is not, then that device is irrelevant. Performing low levitations through trickery is fairly well known - even without electronic back-up. For example, with the Balducci levitation.



I suggest you buy it and build it to find out. I think you would get more enlightenment out of how it works than I would.

BTW I'm not sure how the believers in a magical Criss have proved that he is real? As a suggestion, if he was the real deal it would be much more profitable to him to perform these feats in a controlled environment wearing just a pair of shorts to show it was real, but this he can not do for he needs props and assistants for all his tricks.

[edit on 16-8-2007 by Xtrozero]



posted on Aug, 16 2007 @ 02:56 PM
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Originally posted by Xtrozero

So you have a Criss Angel club of discussion that only people who agree with you are welcomed? I guess that is a stimulating group indeed, and I guess you then can be right 100% of the time....

If I was able to explain a few of his tricks would that maybe enlighten you that just maybe his other stunts are just tricks too.


Exactly, you got it right, and they were calling you silly, a fool, uneducated and with a tiny mind. There is no level of Proof those two will except other than Criss Angel has "Gifts" that most don't. You are welcome to try and convince them, all they did was decide that they had "won" the debate and put me on ignore. It's really quite funny. Have a go at it.
www.abovetopsecret.com...'



posted on Aug, 16 2007 @ 03:07 PM
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Hi Xtrozero,


Originally posted by Paul_Richard
Derren Brown, Criss Angel, and David Blaine all perform illusions. What makes them stand out as magicians and mentalists is that they also have a Gift of Chi-Telekinesis which includes a Gift of Telepathy. More powerful Gifts of Telepathy constitute a Gift of Telepathic Manipulation.


Originally posted by Xtrozero
Hi Paul_Richard,

I would like to ask you a question. Your theory is interesting, but even though Derren Brown fully admits he uses nothing that you suggest does that play anyway into your theory?

Of course.

Derren Brown, like Criss Angel, purposely avoids admitting having Gifts so he can profit off of it as a magician and mentalist that is outstanding. Thereby acquiring the financial rewards that his unique "talents" provide him while also avoiding the scrutiny from skeptics.

After all, just as he says, it is all in the mind.


There are thousands of magicians out there. Yet only a handful of them have television shows. Think about that.



Originally posted by Xtrozero
You seem to be deeply convinced this is all true and factual. Since Derren tends to show how he does things without the powers you suggest would it be in your best interest to actually visit him and find out up close if you are right or wrong. We all are different, but if I held a belief such as yours I would truly want to either disprove it or undeniably prove it on a personal level.

Well, I have had the opportunity to be around people like Derren Brown before. So much of my appraisal comes from indirect experience with a Gift of Chi-Telekinesis as well as a rarely manifested Gift that I have directly experienced.

I am in also in a unique position in that the forces that power people like Derren Brown, Criss Angel, and David Blaine, are very much in opposition to me personally. So if I were to visit one of them I would likely be astrally attacked.


This happened to me when I saw The Amazing Kreskin LIVE onstage when he performed a telekinetic feat, and it also happened to me when I attended an introductory seminar on Reiki and Seichem.

By the same token, when I am astrally attacked around a person who claims only to be an illusionist, that also provides me with yet another confirmation that more is going on that just the skills of a magician.


If you don't mind, I'd rather not double over in pain from a Chi blow from Derren Brown's Group Entity.


Your next question will likely be why they do that. I refer to the Solist Glossary page. Look up the term, linked at the top, called GROUP ENTITY.

You can get there from following the pages (in my signature) to the home link at the bottom of each.



[edit on 16-8-2007 by Paul_Richard]



posted on Aug, 16 2007 @ 03:16 PM
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Originally posted by pavil

Exactly, you got it right, and they were calling you silly, a fool, uneducated and with a tiny mind. There is no level of Proof those two will except other than Criss Angel has "Gifts" that most don't. You are welcome to try and convince them, all they did was decide that they had "won" the debate and put me on ignore. It's really quite funny. Have a go at it.
www.abovetopsecret.com...'


All I need is proof, and watching a TV show is not proof enough for me. If he was handed a pair of shorts to change into and led to an empty room with a chair in it and then was able to levitate on to the chair then I would believe. The problem is when these feats are actually put under real investigative scrutiny they always fail.

Do I think strange events happen around the world? Yes I do, but this is not one of them, and people need to keep somewhat of a skeptical mind to any event to stay unbias in discovering its real nature.

[edit on 16-8-2007 by Xtrozero]



posted on Aug, 16 2007 @ 03:16 PM
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Originally posted by passenger
I, for one, am now thoroughly convinced.
I would like to be the first Apostle of Christos Angel and will gladly risk having myself stoned and/or crucified in his behalf.
XtroZero and his heathern ilk will soon suffer the consequences of our New Inquisition, that will root out such blasphemous heretics and send them to the nether regions. How dare he profane Cristos Angel with his
ignorant ramblings of prosaic explanations of CLEAR MIRACLES?!

(I wonder if this is how Jesus got started?)

P.S. The Sun DOES revolve around the Earth, and Cristos Angel is at it's center.

Have you U2U-ed 1 Tru Criss Angel Fan yet? He claims to have not only met Criss Angel and spoke with THE BIG GUY, but to have been levitated fifteen feet in the air by him.


Yes Passenger, that is EXACTLY how it got started some two-thousand years ago with the prophet Issa/Jesus.

Are you ready?

Are any of us?





[edit on 16-8-2007 by Paul_Richard]



posted on Aug, 16 2007 @ 03:24 PM
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Originally posted by Paul_Richard

Your next question will likely be why they do that. I refer to the Solist Glossary page. Look up the term, linked at the top, called GROUP ENTITY.

You can get there from following the pages (in my signature) to the home link at the bottom of each.





Actually I have no other questions after your answer, because I have never had any experiences such as you have, and so I can not relate to your world as you view it. In my limited way I must rely only on basic mundane approaches to prove or disprove events.



posted on Aug, 16 2007 @ 03:38 PM
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Hi Xtrozero,


Originally posted by Xtrozero
Actually I have no other questions after your answer, because I have never had any experiences such as you have, and so I can not relate to your world as you view it. In my limited way I must rely only on basic mundane approaches to prove or disprove events.

Don't cut yourself short


All you need to do is some investigating of people in parks and on sidewalks who perform the kinds of feats that cannot be duplicated outside of a magician's stage - unless a Gift of the Spirit is the cause.

One more thing...

Be careful what you wish for.





posted on Aug, 16 2007 @ 04:18 PM
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Originally posted by Paul_Richard
All you need to do is some investigating of people in parks and on sidewalks who perform the kinds of feats that cannot be duplicated outside of a magician's stage - unless a Gift of the Spirit is the cause.

One more thing...

Be careful what you wish for.




If you didn't pick the spot and he did then you are on the magician's stage no matter where it is. A really good one like Criss will make you believe he is doing a random impromtu event and it is far from that.

But as I said since you have abilities that allow you to see or feel these powers it is not something I can relate to. I like to perform tricks, it is a hobby of mine, but if anyone is actually doing these tricks for real I would need more proof than what is offered to me at this point in time since I cannot see or feel this power that you say they have.



posted on Aug, 16 2007 @ 04:41 PM
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Originally posted by Xtrozero
... but if anyone is actually doing these tricks for real I would need more proof than what is offered to me at this point in time since I cannot see or feel this power that you say they have.


At least as far as DB is concerned, I have done a quick preliminary investigation vis-a-vis various video clips on the web. (Too many too link, but ol' YouTube is a good start)
After watching several clips, I am forced to retract my original statements about him. He IS pretty good! I see now that he does have some pretty clever techniques and a lot probably are genuine - not just actors cooperating. I feel that his methods are probably real in that I know from prior readings that a lot of the techniques he uses have been validated by psychiatrists, psychologists and magicians. And of course, the show is edited so you don't see when he trips up.
But that does NOT mean what he does is magic (only Christos Angel can do that!)- just a very subtle and carefull use of established methodologies of psychological manipulation.



posted on Aug, 16 2007 @ 04:58 PM
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Originally posted by passenger
But that does NOT mean what he does is magic (only Christos Angel can do that!)- just a very subtle and carefull use of established methodologies of psychological manipulation.


I think when you get down to it for something that would change my very foundation of beliefs I need more than You Tube or articles etc. Since this would be an earth shattering event for me only proof at a very personal level would sway me from my deep beliefs of the world around me.



posted on Aug, 16 2007 @ 04:58 PM
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How about the Criss Angel-is-telekinetic club stick to their own thread and stop hijacking this one.

You can praise him all you like there...



posted on Aug, 16 2007 @ 05:07 PM
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Heck man, Derren's like my hero or something. What he does is cool, and the fact it's all done with just the most subtle of influences is very good. Some things he does are just awe inspiring, I just love watching his show



posted on Aug, 16 2007 @ 05:31 PM
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Accidental double post deleted

[edit on 16-8-2007 by passenger]



posted on Aug, 16 2007 @ 05:31 PM
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Originally posted by Xtrozero
I think when you get down to it for something that would change my very foundation of beliefs I need more than You Tube or articles etc. Since this would be an earth shattering event for me only proof at a very personal level would sway me from my deep beliefs of the world around me.


Sure, he (DB) could very well be using "plants" and in some instances probably is. However, the methods I saw him using do work (sometimes).
I have used them myself in fact.
Let me give you an example:
Pretend you are a Police Officer, called to a scene of domestic violence:
(Words in CAPS are key)
The first thing you do is get the man to sit down-while you remain standing (establishes a dominant position). Then you ask him to "Help me out in understanding this" (while extending your arms out, palms up, in a gesture of pleading or acceptance). While he's talking, you put your hand to your chin (aka thinker-as if you are really thinking about what he's telling you). Then you say something like: "I understand you're an ANGRY MAN (build him up and you understand his pain) but are you going to HIT A WOMAN (makes him feel bad, hopefully)? Are you going to b*t*h and CRY about this like a CHILD (makes this option seem bad) or be a MAN and BE BIG ENOUGH TO FORGIVE her and work it out (good option).
And so on..you get the point and you can see DB use the same methods.
It's just verbal Judo. Granted it don't always work and I was never as good at it as he is. But it does work and sometimes seems like "magic". Sometimes the things you can get a susceptible person to do are astounding.

(Christos Angel craps doves and pees champagne).



posted on Aug, 16 2007 @ 05:59 PM
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I agree and I think he goes farther than that. I think the only plant he uses is some light hypnosis on some un-expecting volunteers. I do not think what he does is fake in the least, but what he does as you put it Mind Judo is the ability to know what to say that plays with our brains ability to process information. As example, he put a wallet on the ground with money hanging out but with a white circle around it. It was on the ground for like 8 hours on a busy street in NY I think. Since only like 1 in 50 actually saw the wallet I would bet most could only focus on the circle thus the wallet was invisible to them. The few who did see the wallet couldn’t comprehend the two together and so moved on too. Now put that wallet around come kids and their thought process might allow them to see it and then take it.
He also uses power of suggestion a lot and has that down to a science, just another layer of your mind judo. Is it real? Yes, but is it magical? No.



posted on Aug, 16 2007 @ 06:38 PM
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Derren Brown:

While I think the show is interesting, his techniques do bother me, like with the use of hypnosis and suggestion. Though hypnosis and suggestion can be powerful, they can have unexpected results, and create insanities. They are not these "safe, cute, and cudly tools" for smoking and weight loss that we have been lead to believe they are.

What the show does demonstrate, is that some of the population can be manipulated by such "mind control." Scary thought indeed, if done on a large scale. I mean, what is positive suggestion anyway? It's like an "implanted" idea that can control how you think, and what you do. So your thinking and action is "outside" your control and manipulated by the implanted information. This is automation and control, not conscious decision making. You are not a robot, running on a "set" program, so I don't recommend using such techniques.

Fortunately, Derren Brown's techniques will not work on some people. Some people are uneffected by hypnosis or positive suggestions. This is a good thing.

All things considered, there are some elements of Derren Brown's show that I can't quite figure out. Is he using telepathy in some of his demonstrations, or is it some sort of trickery?

Troy



posted on Aug, 16 2007 @ 10:07 PM
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The BIG differemce between Derren and Criss is that Derren is not a magician. Derren does not claim to have any "powers", all his tricks are psychological. He is actually very skeptical of anything paranormal.

Derren has never claimed to have any divine supernatural power. In fact, I think he might even be an atheist. (not sure about that one)

I think Criss is very entertaining... but I do think a lot of his "magic" is staged. It is also the result of tricky video editing. (IMO of course, personally I have never seen him live. I'm just going by what I see on TV. I'm not claiming to be the absolute authority on wether CA is real or not.)

Of course Derrens tricks can be the result of the same thing... I just find him to be way more believable than CA. Sometimes he will even go so far as explaining exactly how he does his tricks before/after he performs them.

One of my personal favorites was when he went around NY trying to pay for things with blank sheets of paper. He managed to buy a very expensive piece of jewellry... but he couldn't succeed in buying a $1 hotdog. lol Priceless!



posted on Aug, 17 2007 @ 03:10 AM
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Has Brown, Angel or Blaine ever duplicated this trick by any chance? I'd be interested in learning how it's done, presuming it isn't actually real...



posted on Aug, 17 2007 @ 07:01 AM
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Originally posted by Xtrozero
BTW I'm not sure how the believers in a magical Criss have proved that he is real? As a suggestion, if he was the real deal it would be much more profitable to him to perform these feats in a controlled environment wearing just a pair of shorts to show it was real, but this he can not do for he needs props and assistants for all his tricks.

This is a net forum. There is no physical proof of anything to be found here, only evidence and eyewitness testimony.

It is not more profitable but less profitable for Criss Angel to come out of the closet regarding his Gift of Chi-Telekinesis. He has more airtime on television than any illusionist in history, and laughs all the way to the bank.




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