Dutch Bishop Tells Christians to Call God 'Allah'

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Oh riiiiiiiight .. 'people like me' .... can't be at peace with people of other faiths. Oh please.

People who focus on the differences more than the similarities. It's the word "God" for Christ's sake. We all know that God is not limited to Christianity. Hindus use the word God. So do Buddhists. Allah is another word for God. If someone is willing to make a huge stink over who owns a generic word, then what else are they willing to fight about?

You are highly confused. It's the radical muslims that can't coexist .. it's the radical muslims that can't stomach people being other faiths.

And waht about the regular Muslims? Are they okay? Are you willing to let them use the word "God" to describe Allah? If so, then why not use "Allah" to describe God? It's like calling a calling a bird an ave.

This is perhaps the dumbest argument I've ever seen on ATS.

First of all, this is a bishop famous for making remarks that are not altogether serious. Secondly, does anyone really think he seriously expects people to start using the word "Allah" instead of "God", or is he just wryly making a point that God is still God no matter what you call him?

Finally, the people ranting that this guy is bending over to appease Islam should note, from the original linked articles (which no-one apparently read) this bit:

In the past, Bishop Muskens has offended many Muslims. In 2005 he said Islam was a religion without a future because it had too many violent aspects.

And, by the way, what about other languages besides English?
Someone ought to tell Spanish speakers to stop calling God "Dios", don't they know it's wrong?!??

If I put as many as I wanted at the end of this post, I'd probably get banned....

Originally posted by xmotex
First of all, this is a bishop famous for making remarks that are not altogether serious. Secondly, does anyone really think he seriously expects people to start using the word "Allah" instead of "God", or is he just wryly making a point that God is still God no matter what you call him?

I think he's just wryly making a point that God is still God no matter what we call Him. The bishop seems to be highlighting the ridiculousness of the religious leaders and their petty ventures that hold risk for all mankind. That bishop seems pretty smart and wise, to me.

I call God, Howard.

As in, "Our Father, who art in heaven, HOWARD be thy name."

Works for me. He hasn't complained yet.

I hate these discussions, people should get it through their thick skulls that Allah is just the word God in arabic, it's not a name in the first place. Besides that the quran clearly states Allah or God is the same one that jews and christians worship. If youas a christian would call your god Allah, youwould be 100% correct because you would just be saying God in another language.. oo the French Call it Deus.. let's hate them too. not to mention the Germans calling it Gott and so on and so forth.

Organized religion

Jumala in finnish, same god dude though. It's a title, it can be translated.

Originally posted by JbT
Hell, if it were up to me, all these religions would cease to exist.

Personally, I could care less what you guys want to call your imaginary friend.

That is what it is, an Imaginary Friend.... this imaginary friend just happens to be the sole cause for most if not all the wars the last 6000+ years.

Allah, God, The Boggy Man..... what is the difference? Either name results in one word.... WAR.

Maybe thats what we should call this imaginary friend.... WAR.

Even this topic, the result of it is going to be an online argument in the name of an imaginary figuer. Have fun with that.

I guess you can tell that I see relgious people like children in a play ground talking to them selfs about their imaginary tea party friends. You are all so imature and seemingly "stupid" to us "nonbelivers" of "God".

[edit on 15-8-2007 by JbT]

So we can blame Egyptian, Hittite, Babylonian, Assyrian, Persian, Aryan, Greek, Roman, and various other ancient conquests over 1700 years ago on a Monotheistic religion.

I dont think so. Humans will fight and kill as long as they exist. From 1700 years ago an on Religion has been an excuse to Justify the Violence. Before that Nations didnt have to Justify war and conquest by faith. They conquered for power and glory. Slaves and resources too.

By the time of the Renaissance Religion was no longer a good excuse. Nationalism, Exploration, Trade, and Resources became new excuses kind of like the same old excuses.

Lets look at the greatest wars in Human history at least in the West and one mention from China.

The Cold War: not motivated by religion.
World War 2: not motivated by religion, maybe except Japan.
World War 1: not motivated by religion
US Civil War: not motivated by religion

Chinese Civil War, Taipeng Rebellion: oh my we have a war motivated by a religious nut, who thought he was the brother of Christ.

Napoleonic War: not motivated by religion

Lots of religious conflict at the rise of the Protestant movement and during the Reformation.
Conquest of the Americas, primarily religious but also financial.

The Mongol Conquest: doesnt seem to be religious
The Crusades: A true full on Holy War.

I could go on but I think I made my point.

Instead of calling imaginary friends War, how about calling Humanity Violent. Humans are Warring Creatures. Always have been, always will be.

The Soviets wanted to wipe religion from the face of the earth. Well if that Isnt the Pot calling the Kettle black.

From what I understand this is already taking place with christians in Indonesia. They are being forced too.

People are being drawn into a trap by thinking being politically correct will appease Islam. That is not the case.

Originally posted by MikeboydUS
Instead of calling imaginary friends War, how about calling Humanity Violent. Humans are Warring Creatures. Always have been, always will be.

In a word: Power. Scarce resources or unlimited resources, humans will kill to control whatever gives them the upper-hand. Maybe it won't always be so, maybe all humans will be dead one day, too.

Looking at things this way it makes religions appear to be a mechanism to displace Man's thirst for power. By placing power in an entity beyond proof, beyond reason, and beyond accessibility Man's need to control is somewhat diminished. Strange that we can conceive of harmony but cannot achieve it. Despite this strangeness it is for Men normal. Hope had to be invented to describe this inability to build what we imagine. And God may represent that hope, or He may not.

Originally posted by djohnsto77
I think most people are still missing the point of this thread.
It's not to determine which, if either, religion is more correct, but to question whether one should change something as fundamental as how they name their God to appease another.

Originally posted by shai hulud
How far does Western culture go to appease a warlike religion that is based out of the 7th century?

Originally posted by djohnsto77
Suggesting that non-Arabic speakers take up the Arabic name to appease Muslims is insane.

Originally posted by FlyersFan
Why can't Muslims call God ... God the Father ... instead of Allah?
Why do Christians have to be the ones to APPEASE? (and only do
so out of fear of becoming terrorist targets?)

Originally posted by dbrandt
People are being drawn into a trap by thinking being politically correct will appease Islam. That is not the case.

All sides should appease. And they should appease until there are no demands left. Through appeasement all sides would continually free themselves from all other sides. Freedom is not gained through denial. Freedom is gained through submission. Freedom is a continual process. Marriage illustrates this very well. Whether it be through love or convenience, a good marriage thrives on the ability of both parties to continually submit to one another. In this case, the topic of this thread, Christians and Muslims appear to have irreconcilable differences. Appeasement is the only way forward. Appeasement annihilates differences, and appeasement ceases to be appeasement when differences are being sorted. Appeasement becomes compromise. Compromise becomes compatibility.

Rather annihilate each other instead? Try to beat each other into submission? That's not going to work. Some will survive and some will remember. Some will learn, others will not. Either embrace each other standing, stand silently with arms crossed and backs to one another, continue shouting at each other across an imaginary fence, or lay slain on the battlefield entangled in one another. Divorce clearly is not an option.

[edit on 18-8-2007 by Areal51]

The clear answer, if you want to know, is that GOD ALMIGHTY, may not have given His name.

When Moses was at the burning bush, the namer was either, "I AM" or "I the Eternal"

But to understand GOD, and why He chose not to give his name, one would have to study everything written, by The early church fathers, and every version of the Word of God. Like the Septuagint LXX, and older bibles.

But think on this verse, from the Book of Revelation.
REV 19:12 -13

12 And his eyes [are] a flame of fire, and upon his head [are] many diadems; and he hath a name written which no one knoweth but he himself.
13 And he [is] arrayed in a garment sprinkled with blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

That is what, 4 years of study, has exposed to me.

But on the other hand, the most hated name, seems to be JESUS, thus I think this is the name, given for acessing the power from GOD.

He, that JESUS, is the other in the, and I quote" 26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness ( GEN 1 )"..

That is the deal !

Originally posted by bodrul

Originally posted by Leyla

i just see someone that hasnt got a clue about Islam
and would rather through insults around

i gave you quotes with why Muslims shouldnt and cant kill anyone unless its in defence you ignored it,

i gave you a link and video about Islam and how the moon asosiates with it

i have explined to you about jesus (may rest be apon him)

i wont go down to your level and through vile insults

so enjoy your life because your not worth the hassle

and why for the love of god should i care that your not Muslim


we have fanatics already so we dont need you

[edit on 16-8-2007 by bodrul]

I'm not being insulting I'm stating my views- and no they wern't vile. I didn't speak with a forked tougue Bodrul. I will not call God Allah plain and simple. If you don't like it then I'm sorry. And as I said before I know all I need to know about islam.

You don't need me haha- thats funny. Thats too bad because I'm still here.

You say Jesus is dead- he is not he lives.

Originally posted by Leyla
I'm not being insulting I'm stating my views- and no they wern't vile. I didn't speak with a forked tougue Bodrul. I will not call God Allah plain and simple. If you don't like it then I'm sorry. And as I said before I know all I need to know about islam.

You don't need me haha- thats funny. Thats too bad because I'm still here.

You say Jesus is dead- he is not he lives.

Views is when someone shows their views in an none aggressive way
saying you just want to give your views and not get a equal response is pathetic and childish

forked tongue, you better re-read your replys as all you do is through insults,
you say you dont want to be lectured about my faith, then dont ask for it.
dont think you can post things about islam and not expect me to reply to it.

its your faith (christianity, what ever sect you follow) you believe something and this is honest i dont care what faith you are. if i did care about someones faith my majority of friends wouldnt be christain and i wouldnt assosiate my self with people that you believe i should dipise because i am muslim.


also on a last not

Originally posted by Leyla
So since I refuse to convert to Islam are you gonna hunt me down and kill me?

Originally posted by bodrul
and why for the love of god should i care that your not Muslim


we have fanatics already so we dont need you

kind of self explanitory so people dont get the wrong idea of what i was replying to before, becuase that i found the most retarded comment ever to another member on ATS

this is my last reply to you on this topic
if you wish to have a real discussion i will happily reply to you if you decide to through childish insults at me dont expect a reply, good day

reply to post by xmotex


i agree with you this is the dumbest arguement on ATS history
a retarded bishop says everyone should say allah and all the sudden its
like that bishop speaks for all muslims.


dont see why people didnt do the natural thing and ignore his comments as
its been mentioned he has a history of saying random comments,

but then again this has shown peoples ignorance of the word aswell.

reply to post by ChilledVoodoo


YOU KNOW ITS SO STUPID TO FIGHT OVER THIS. JUDISM BEGAT CHRISTIANITY. CHRISTIANITY AND JUDISM BEGAT ISLAM. IN A COUPLE OF MORE CENTURIES ISLAM AND JUDISM AND CHRISTIANITY WILL BEGAT A NEW RELIGION. THEY ALL THREE SHARE THE SAME GOD JUST THEY CAN'T GET ALONG BECAUSE OF STUFF OTHER PEOPLE ADDED TO BASIC WORD OF GOD OVER YEARS. IF GOD COME TODAY I AM SURE HE WOULD TELL EVERYONE TO GROW UP AND PLAY NICE OR ELSE SUFFER HIS WRAITH.

Oh, If there is a god, I'm quite sure he's already got those who are intollerant of others religion on the 'hell' list.

In fact, I'm quite sure a god would permit more agnostics into heaven than religious people... doing what is right because you want into heaven is simply greed and self importance.
We agnostics want what is right because we want future generations to do better than ourselves. When we die, we're dead. Plain and simple. You just cease to exist.
Now THAT is selflessness.

Oh well ok Bodrul I'm sorry. I wasn't being childish. I stated I will not call God Allah. Thats my view and my belief. I'm sorry you don't like it.

We live in a perfect world but a imperfect society. Have to learn how to get along. You nor I can tell people how to live. Thats their choice. I don't agree with the Koran because it states that people who are not muslim are monkies and infidels. So I guess that makes me a infidel.

If you can deny this statement ok but I want to see your sources that say this is wrong.

Bodrul I know the friends are all muslim that I met in Eygpt- they will not keep in contact with me anymore because I didn't convert to Isalm. This was a secret until now- thats why I can't return to Eygpt.

Originally posted by Leyla
If you can deny this statement ok but I want to see your sources that say this is wrong.

for once i will say this to you
read my past replies and posts since i have metioned more then enough
about Muslims and none muslims and to be honest

i am tired of repeating my self


this topic was about a idiotic bishop so lets just get back to that
me and you have derailed this topic enough

I stated I will not call God Allah. Thats my view and my belief. I'm sorry you don't like it.

Pardon me, but I did not see where Bodrul told you to call God Allah, or anything else.



People are acting as if there is some mass movement demanding Christians start calling God Allah.

Relax.

Take a deep breath.

It's not going to happen.

It was an intentionally silly remark by a single wisecracking bishop trying to make a point.

I thought Allah has 99 names in the koran except the word love in his description? They could always go back to YAHWEY and the best way to teach others about your religion is to keep it constant, the Bible says let a yes be a yes and a no a no otherwise its from the evil one.