Dutch Bishop Tells Christians to Call God 'Allah'

Originally posted by ninthaxis

As was already posted, these were just the first two links on a large search.

Large search you say????? results using his search ended up with Results 1 - 8 of 8 for "muslim protest against terrorism" . (0.34 seconds). Imagine that only 8 hits which is nothing when you consider the fact they are 20 percent of the worlds population. You might consider going back to school and learn what large means in the real world.

Originally posted by shots

Originally posted by ninthaxis

As was already posted, these were just the first two links on a large search.

Large search you say????? results using his search ended up with Results 1 - 8 of 8 for "muslim protest against terrorism" . (0.34 seconds). Imagine that only 8 hits which is nothing when you consider the fact they are 20 percent of the worlds population. You might consider going back to school and learn what large means in the real world.

Funny i get "Results 1 - 10 of about 2,030,000 for muslim protest against terrorism." Seems large enough to me.

Shots, when you put something in quotations it doesn't always mean put those quotes in a search.

Here was my result
www.google.com...

But even the grammatically correct, and exact phrase

"Muslims protest against terrorism"
Gets you this
www.google.com...

what would you guys say if aliens came with their own form of god and tried to convert us, or at least have us use his name the way they see fit. That brings up another question, do aliens beleive in god? have they manipulated or created our God, or gods. Were our gods or god really aliens like many think. What if aliens beleive in god and they taught us to? If you knew would you take their word for it, or would you ask where they got the notion? What if they have alien gods, would you worship them or not because they are alien gods? but if god is all the same with different names, would you accept their gods as your own???????

[edit on 16-8-2007 by newyorkee]

Originally posted by Rasobasi420

Here was my result
www.google.com...

But even the grammatically correct, and exact phrase

"Muslims protest against terrorism"
Gets you this
www.google.com...

Yeah big deal even using your new term you still only get Results 1 - 10 of about 656 for "Muslims protest against terrorism". (0.08 seconds).

Whoope 656 hits which is hardly significant for the reasons I sated they are after all 20 percent o the worlds populatin yet all you can come up with is a few thousand protesters big deal.

All removing the quotes does is give you more hits that are not relevant had you checked many of them you would have found that out.

The Jedi Archivist's Dilemma

Just because something isn't on the Internet doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Or in this case, just because you're having trouble finding something on the Internet doesn't mean it isn't there.

I think this would be worthy of a look.

Meanwhile, if I don't see you standing on a street corner protesting against government corruption, should I assume you approve of it then?

I fail to understand sometimes how a site that is about denying ignorance can even entertain a thread about religion, that said, religion is a major world issue so I can sort of understand its place here, although certainly some of the 'amazing' claims by most religions would not be allowed on the UFO forum without a crescendo of cries for proof (and the expected 'CGI...CGI' if any was presented ).

However some of the comments in this thread are beyond ignorant, they fall into closed minded bigotry!!

[edit on 16-8-2007 by Shambles]

Pardon me if this has been said, but, I feel I must make a point on this issue as it has very distinct repercussions.

Those who say God, as Christians use the word, is the same as saying Allah have no idea about the religions they are addressing.

Islam was born from the descendants of Abraham and Sarahs hand-maid. Ishmael was that son. Jews are the descendants of his son with Sarah, Isaac.

God himself distinguishes himself in how He is refered to in the Bible (I'm stating this from my point of view so don't bother with the usual dismissals of the Bible and it's authenticity as they will be ignored).
As generations are added after Abraham God adds to a particular reference form. That being He is refered to as The god of Abraham, then the God of Abraham and Isaac, then Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.
The very idea that saying God and Allah are the same is at the least
sacriligious. As was said before, the name of my God is YAHWEH. I am that I am. I am He that is complete in Himself, I lack nothing and require nothing outside of Myself to exist.
To call the God of the Jews and Christians by any name other than those given within the Bible shows ones ignorance of (Religious)History.

If you want to read the Blessing given to Ishmael in Genesis. It says
that he will be in opposition to Abrahams son Isaac and his descendants.

Yep, but God is a loving God and he says that he will forgive humanity in the future for Adam's sin.

Originally posted by truthinadvertising
Those who say God, as Christians use the word, is the same as saying Allah have no idea about the religions they are addressing.

Allah means god in arabic, much like jehovah means god in hebrew. It doesn't appear that the bishop is trying to make people worship the islam god, as his support for saying allah is that it is a beautiful word.

Originally posted by Megadeth
This is an outrage, but coming from a Catholic I shouldn't be surprised.
Anyone who claims that Christians and Muslims worship the same god knows nothing about the history of Islam or where the name 'Allah' came from.

There is the one true God, and he does care what we call him. Allah is the name of a false god, the god of the moon. Allah is a name derived from Satan to confuse an entire region of people and it has been done so.
Allah is a god of war, my God is a god of love.

Yes. The stupid vengeful nonexistent god who made love with a virgin. LOL.
Lol they even can't make up their own mind over what to make of their own figment of their imagination like their stupid god. I can only say this. The bickerings of these god believers over what to call something that doesn't exist amuses me to no end. Mwahaha. I have a name for this god. It is called 'STUPID'

'Oh STUPID almighty. Cleanse this world of all these nonbelievers.

Attention: this is just my opinion.

[edit on 17-8-2007 by omnicron]

Originally posted by Megadeth
This is an outrage, but coming from a Catholic I shouldn't be surprised.

Disgusting uneducated remark.

Originally posted by djohnsto77
Why don't Muslims both here and in the Middle East give up the word "Allah" and start using "God" then in the interest of mutual understanding and harmony?

Excellent point. We already know the answer to that ... don't we?

Originally posted by ambushrocks
I'm quite sure that the Vatican does not approve of this God is Allah statement

You are right. It didn't. And the statement is NOT in line with Catholic teaching.

Originally posted by infinite
God, Allah, YHWH, Elyon, Elohim are all the same meaning/name/etc

No they are not. Most Christians worship a trinity god ... Father, Son, Holy SPirit. Jews and Muslims do NOT. The thought of a trinity God is pagan to them. The Christian Trinity God and the Muslim Allah are two totally different Gods.

Originally posted by bodrul
in my honest opininion i think the bishop is a idiot

I agree. An idiot. A complete tool as well.

Originally posted by djohnsto77
CAIR (Council on American-Islamic Relations) seem to have embraced it:

Of course they would. They just loooooooooove to be appeased by useful idiots. CAIR stinks.

Originally posted by Leyla
I don't believe in the Roman Catholics nor Islam- These two I will not yield to. Both are cults.

Technically ALL RELIGIONS are cults. Every last one - Christian, Muslim, Jewish, Hindu, New Age ... all are 'cults'.

Originally posted by Rasobasi420
So why can't Christian's do the same?

Why can't Muslims call God ... God the Father ... instead of Allah?
Why do Christians have to be the ones to APPEASE? (and only do
so out of fear of becoming terrorist targets?)
Answer - because it's a totally different 'GOD' that they believe in.
We Christians have Trinity God. They don't. Two different Gods.

Originally posted by Rasobasi420
And many Christians still bomb abortion clinics and murder children in doing so,

MANY?? That's not even close to being true. And the only children being murdered in abortuaries are being murdered legally by their mothers and the 'doctors'.

and many American soldiers rape and murder innocent women and children.

Again with the MANY???? Ras .. wanna post some facts to back that 'MANY' up with??

Originally posted by Megadeth
I say that any Muslim has the potential to become an 'extremist' when they take the Koran to heart.

And a Christian doesn't have the potential to become an extremist when they take the Bible to heart? Whats your point?

If one would just look at the Bible it shows us that Adam and Eve were the very first Jews created in a world already populated by mankind.

If one would just look at the Koran (sp) it shows that once Adam was banished from Eden, God/Allah sent him to Mecca to learn how to pray. God sent the Angel Gabriel to guide Adam there. The Koran accepts Adam as the first prophet from God. Do Christians accept Mohammed as a prophet? Why not? Which religion is more tolerant?

The Bible also tells us that the coming kingdom of the Anti-Christ will be an Islamic kingdom.

So the Bible, the Christian Gods good book, states that the next kingdom will be Islamic? What you are saying here is that Gods chosen kingdom, the one that will wipe out all the evil in the world and take us back to a level playing field, will be an Islamic one? After Christ returns, he'll leave us with an Islamic world?? God has chosen that? Looks like Christians are battting on the wrong side!

This is why Jesus had to live and die..

Actually, the Gospel according to Judas (look it up) is reputed to say that Jesus asked Judas to betray him. Jesus was the last of the Biblical prophets, but that's because the bible doesn't mention Mohammed. Islam accepts that there are 6 prophets, why can't Christianity? Tolerance again?

There is one God, it doesn't matter which prophet you choose to follow. If the Antichrist does come, it'll be the intolerant that are judged, no-one else.

Originally posted by FlyersFan
Why can't Muslims call God ... God the Father ... instead of Allah?

Do you know what "Allah" means? It means "The God," so now let's look at your sentence again with the translation of Allah:

"Why can't Muslims call God ... God the Father ... instead of the God?"

We don't call God, "The Father" because we don't attribute him to having any offspring. Why don't Christians call "God" as "Ellah," such as Jesus did, instead of the German word for "Ellah"?

Why do Christians have to be the ones to APPEASE? (and only do
so out of fear of becoming terrorist targets?)

If this is your reasoning for why Muslims and Christian get along, then I feel worried for you.

Answer - because it's a totally different 'GOD' that they believe in.
We Christians have Trinity God. They don't. Two different Gods.

We worship the God that Jesus worships. The same Abraham, Noah, Moses, Adam (peace be upon them), and all the other prophets have prayed to. We just don't worship Jesus (pbuh), only look to him as our prophet, in the same respect to Muhammad, Noah, Moses, and Abraham.

The "Trinity" God did not always exist in Christianity. Early branches of Christianity were unitarian, meaning they viewed Jesus as a prophet and God as the only God.

It really shouldn't matter all that much to Christians by what name the God of Abraham is called. Maybe to Catholics, but most other branches of Christianity?

The true pronunciation of the tetragrammaton was lost long ago.

At any rate, Jesus Christ is the primary diety of Christianity. "There is no way but through me." The God of Abraham carried over because Christianity grew out of what is called a historical religious tradition, and it was important to the editors of the Gospels that continuity with tradition be maintained (remember that famous song in Fiddler on the Roof? Early Christians were converting Jews).

I'm not saying it's not important that the God of Abraham be properly identified, but linguistically, Allah ought to be just as good at selecting the proper referent in an esoteric context.

FF I'm sure if you look at the percentage of Muslims that suicide bomb places they would be comparable to the percentage of American soldiers that murder innocent people. Basically a small percent.

And to your comment about Muslims calling Allah God.....

[b]They Do call Allah God! In English speaking countries it is extremely common for Muslims to call Allah both God and Allah. Maybe they don't say "God the Father" every time they mention him, but who does.

Please

Originally posted by DJMessiah
We don't call God, "The Father" because we don't attribute him to having any offspring.

Excellent. You just made my case. Two totally different 'God's. Not only is Jesus the 'offspring' of God .. but He is also GOD Himself.... and we worship Him as the God that He is.

Why don't Christians call "God" as "Ellah,"

That is a point worthy of further discussion.

I feel worried for you.

whatever.

We worship the God that Jesus worships. We just don't worship Jesus

Excellent. You made my case again. Christians worship JESUS ... and therefore a different God althogether.

The "Trinity" God did not always exist in Christianity.

Maybe yes .. maybe no. For this discussion it doesn't matter what Christians worshipped 2,000 years ago. NOW they mostly worship a trinity God .. a totally different God then the Muslims and Jews.

Originally posted by FlyersFan
Maybe yes .. maybe no. For this discussion it doesn't matter what Christians worshipped 2,000 years ago. NOW they mostly worship a trinity God .. a totally different God then the Muslims and Jews.

And it's this purposeful and forceful disconnect that will never allow people like you (those who refuse to coexist) to be at peace with those of other faiths.

And nevertheless, calling the Christian God Allah does not take away from that. As a matter of fact, the same way that English speaking Muslims often call Allah "God", middle eastern Christians call the "All Father God" (or whatever you call him) Allah. The word doesn't mean anything.

Originally posted by Rasobasi420
people like you (those who refuse to coexist) to be at peace with those of other faiths.

Oh riiiiiiiight .. 'people like me' .... can't be at peace with people of other faiths. Oh please.

You are highly confused. It's the radical muslims that can't coexist .. it's the radical muslims that can't stomach people being other faiths.

I don't care what people worship.

The word doesn't mean anything.

The context the whacked bishop used it in means EVERYTHING.
It was to appease the Muslim extremists.
He wants people to think it's the same God .. when clearly it isn't.

Thank God he's going to retire soon.

It is a sad state of affairs.

Islam is reportedly the fastest growing religion on the planet. Its impact in Europe is now greater than ever before. Even during the Crusades there weren't as many Muslims there as there are now

The Dutch Bishop is obviously reacting to the rise of Islam where he lives and the pressure on the diminishing Catholic Church. It is an attempt on his part to placate the now dominant Muslim population.