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Dutch Bishop Tells Christians to Call God 'Allah'

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posted on Aug, 16 2007 @ 01:57 PM
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Hi all,

There is no need to argue, there is nothing wrong with believers or non-believers, let's try to have respect for ourselves as humans. The stories about God is long and very complicated, if you ever thought that you can figure out God in few stories then you are mistaking. God is special, (good God), if you want truth, you will have to find it and it will not be easy and you might not like what you will find, however it is the truth.

I truly believe, that no person can know God completely, (whatever name you may want to call him by) but we can seek (or not) to know until the end of one's path, we can chose to be good or not, you don’t need a magic for that. Take whatever you can from a person or story or painting or song, it doesn’t have to be the final it, it just has to be good to your ears. Let’s hope that crime doesn’t sound good to your ears...lol


Thanks all




posted on Aug, 16 2007 @ 03:07 PM
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Originally posted by shai hulud
...more of a hostile takeover of Western culture by an aggressive culture that has never known peace or progress in their existence.



Originally posted by DJMessiah
...the same western culture which has never caused any harm on anyone, and has never colonized other countries, never enslaved entire races, never started any wars, never forced their beliefs on anyone, and never shows an ounce of intolerance to anyone that doesn't agree with their beliefs.


Well said my friend.


I live in the West and even I know that it has never been a paragon of virtue, save only in the minds of some that believe the States can do no wrong. We love to point the finger, but hate to take the blame.

My opinion is that religion just further serves to separate mankind from our own unique and individual connection to our creator and consequently keep us at each others throats. All of these "holy" men, these Bishops, priests, preachers or what-have-you only serve as roadblocks to higher understanding.

Do away with the holy men and get back to God I say.



posted on Aug, 16 2007 @ 03:19 PM
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Originally posted by bodrul
So belive what you want Leyla

You have no idea about my faith but whats in your heart.




I know plenty more then I wish to. I spent some time in Egypt last year. Bodrul don't sugar coat it. Anyone who kills a innocent girl because their raped or dates someone or converts to christianity. You call that honor? God's commandment states Thou shall not kill. A killing took place when I was in Cairo that happened in Alexansdria at a church. A friend of mine merely brushed it off he knew what happened but all he did was call the man crazy. The woman who was killed was done by the hand of her own brother. So since I refuse to convert to Islam are you gonna hunt me down and kill me?

You don't believe that God sent his only son to die for our sins. So don't lecture me on your cult. Whats the writing on the Dome of the Rock say. God has no son.

I don't believe in the Roman Catholics nor Islam- These two I will not yield to. Both are cults.



posted on Aug, 16 2007 @ 03:26 PM
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Originally posted by Leyla


i just see someone that hasnt got a clue about Islam
and would rather through insults around

i gave you quotes with why Muslims shouldnt and cant kill anyone unless its in defence you ignored it,

i gave you a link and video about Islam and how the moon asosiates with it

i have explined to you about jesus (may rest be apon him)

i wont go down to your level and through vile insults

so enjoy your life because your not worth the hassle

and why for the love of god should i care that your not Muslim


we have fanatics already so we dont need you




[edit on 16-8-2007 by bodrul]



posted on Aug, 16 2007 @ 03:39 PM
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Why does every thread even hinting at god/religion get derailed by such bickering? The topic at hand is whether it is ok for a religious person to have others rename their god, no matter the religion. Lets keep it at that instead of all the islam/christianity sucks comments blah blah blah. Learn to debate in a calm, rational matter instead of this senseless bickering. It really ruins a thread with good potential. There are many other threads you can join to debate the validity of such and such relgion/idea/theory.

I think if the priest thought that the word allah described his concept of god better he can encourage them to use it. But to change for the sake of changing is unnecessary.



posted on Aug, 16 2007 @ 03:44 PM
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“The symbol of the Order is a crescent moon, made from the claws of a Bengal tiger, engraved with a pyramid, an urn and a pentagram. The crescent is suspended from a scimitar and in the Order is a representation of the Universal Mother worshipped in ancient times as Isis. The horns of the crescent point downwards because it represents the setting moon of the old faith at the rising of the Sun of the new religion of the brotherhood of humanity.”



posted on Aug, 16 2007 @ 03:45 PM
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SO what do you think about the proposal of geert Wilders[right winger] to forbid the Koran by law?
A book which is an inspiration for moderate muslims[who dont seem to dispute their radical belivers too often]
Or the book as a source, breeding the hatred of the radicals towards jews and infidels..



[edit on 16-8-2007 by Foppezao]



posted on Aug, 16 2007 @ 03:57 PM
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Originally posted by djohnsto77
Why don't Muslims both here and in the Middle East give up the word "Allah" and start using "God" then in the interest of mutual understanding and harmony?


Because....because.....well, that's forcing your religion onto others!! That's wrong!!!! You're just making things worse!!

Hopefully, people can see thru my sarcasm with that statement I just wrote.

Good suggestion, djohnsto77. And I'll take some Stoli, please.



posted on Aug, 16 2007 @ 04:02 PM
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reply to post by spinstopshere
 


“The symbol of the Order is a crescent moon, made from the claws of a Bengal tiger, engraved with a pyramid, an urn and a pentagram. The crescent is suspended from a scimitar and in the Order is a representation of the Universal Mother worshipped in ancient times as Isis. The horns of the crescent point downwards because it represents the setting moon of the old faith at the rising of the Sun of the new religion of the brotherhood of humanity.”

Sound like Islam to anyone? Islam is an occult religion, so I guess English speaking people who want to call their God Allah might as well just call him Satan. The only way to the real God is though Jesus.



posted on Aug, 16 2007 @ 04:31 PM
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Originally posted by djohnsto77
Why don't Muslims both here and in the Middle East give up the word "Allah" and start using "God" then in the interest of mutual understanding and harmony?


Plenty do. As a matter of fact, many of the Muslims I know personally refer to God as both God and Allah.

So why can't Christian's do the same?



posted on Aug, 16 2007 @ 04:37 PM
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Snakeslayer i do not see why the name has to matter. I believe in Jesus as much as the next guy but i do not think that god gives a care about what we call him.



posted on Aug, 16 2007 @ 04:51 PM
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I have a question.

Does God have a name? "God", "Lord", "Allah", etc are titles, not names. YHWH, Yahwah, Jehovah, whatever as I recall is translated as, "I am what I am." Still not a name.

So what does it really matter what we refer to God as? When talking with a Westerner, use God. When talking with an Easterner use Allah. What's the problem?



posted on Aug, 16 2007 @ 05:25 PM
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Consider The Source

Teapot tempests aside, when in doubt regarding what to call God, I'm in the camp that says "Ask Him yourself."

So I did.

And lo, I didst pray unto the Lord, and the Lord spake thusly:

"Thou mayest call Me whatever thou doth wish, as long as thou dost not call Me late for dinner."

And lo, I didst swoon, for it was thus revealed unto me that God dost indeed speak in King James English.

When I asked Him why this was so, the Lord spake thusly:

"Wouldst thou taketh Me seriously if I didst speak in jive? I didn't think so. Now trouble Me not, 'cuz I's late fo' a jam wid da boyz in Rock 'n' Roll Hebben, yo."

And with that, the vision didst pass, and lo, I didst swoon once more, because swooning is kind of fun, and it keeps me from feeling lo.



posted on Aug, 16 2007 @ 05:28 PM
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Originally posted by bodrul
i gave you quotes with why Muslims shouldnt and cant kill anyone unless its in defence you ignored it,



If that is the case then kindly explain why we constantly hear about innocent children being killed along with their innocent mothers?



[edit on 8/16/2007 by shots]



posted on Aug, 16 2007 @ 05:29 PM
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Since I feel no one is hitting the nail on the head, I thought I´d give my input.

I hate, hate discussing religious affairs, as it always leads to misunderstandings and grudges against one another. (I wish it was different...)

But the point here isn´t what we should call God, as we do not know his name, and personally I could care less. But the question here is, how far should we bend backwards for political correctness/or for the feelings of Muslims? Many Europeans/Scandinavians feel that they give so much, yet have to continue giving. Many want to put a foot down, and say enough. I feel that we all should respect each others beliefs, ideology, whatever it may be. And sugar coating everything in political correctness is not helping anyone.

No offense intended here, but just the way I see it.


Frontkjemper



posted on Aug, 16 2007 @ 05:32 PM
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Originally posted by shots

If that is the case then kindly explain why we constanstly hear about innocient children being killed along with their innocient mothers?



im suppose to explain how a fanatic thinks?
as i said many times over and over again, i dont see them as muslims those who kill in cold blood. but as i have said many times i have no authoirity to say one person isnt muslim, as i am not the person that will judge them in the end,.


and on the lines can you explain how US forces kill so many familes?



posted on Aug, 16 2007 @ 05:41 PM
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Originally posted by Megadeth
This is not just about what name to call God.
It goes deeper in the fact that Jesus said that if you do not know him, you do not know his Father. Muslims do not know Jesus, therefore do NOT know the Father. The same is applied to Jews because they do not know Jesus.
If you do not know Jesus, you do not know God. So praying to this 'Allah' is fruitless because the prayers fall on def ears.


This all makes sense if you believe it. Otherwise it's a stalemate on all three ends. Don't you think that if proof were available for any of the three religions that you mention that it would be well known and there would, at least, be only one religion remaining out of the three that you mention? Apparently all three groups seek to know the truth. See? What you present is absurd. If you believe what you believe, then so be it. There's no need to argue. You move through life according to your own "God's" beat. But if you are going to argue with the intent to persuade, then you have to come correct with evidence supporting the argument. In the case of your argument here you actually have to go a step further and furnish proof. You have the burden of proof because you say that Muslims and Jews are guilty of not knowing God because they do not know Jesus. No such proof exists for you to exhibit. For the charge you make you have to provide clear and convincing evidence, or show a preponderance of evidence, or it has to be beyond a reasonable doubt for all parties concerned. You cannot furnish this kind of information, and nor can the other religions furnish it. The Holy Bible is not enough. The Koran is not enough. The Mikra is not enough. What the three groups have in common are strong beliefs. They are bound to their convictions. Because of this it is pointless to argue.

Perhaps there's a frustration of possibly being wrong that drives this, because as sure as many of you are in your faiths, you have questions about your faiths that cannot be answered. Many of you are prohibited by your religions from entertaining certain kinds of questions. Many of you have been brought up in such a way where your conditioning is so complete that to reject it is to commit mental suicide. You would have to construct an entire new world and cosmic view from scratch all on your own, with nearly no one being available to help you through it. There wouldn't be anyone available to tell you what to do. You would indeed enter hell. And the only way to heaven would be through your own perseverance to repair your mind, but it would never be as it would be if you had never been indoctrinated with the faith you hold in the first place. The specter of this does not make an invitation that many of you are likely to accept. You continue to have faith. The reasons are your own.

God, Allah, Yahweh, however you wish to refer, seems silent. Each group has claimed to have had at least one representative that has spoken to "God", each group claims to have been spoken to by "God", directly or indirectly, at least once. Each group seems to have been told a different message than the other groups. Each group is intolerant of the message the other groups have received from God. Each group finds the other groups intolerable to some extent. Now there's an argument about referring to "God" by the same name or word. An old bishop speaks a clue to the seemingly deaf.

Folks if you really want to be free, and you really want peace, then you have to let the other groups go. Each group must free itself from the concerns of the other groups. Otherwise, we have a preponderance of historical evidence that tells us what is likely to happen as a result of each group's inability to let the other groups go. All three groups are bound to each other by their own choosing. If they were indeed bound together by the hand of "God", then presumably there wouldn't be a cause for contempt or war, would there?



posted on Aug, 16 2007 @ 05:48 PM
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Originally posted by bodrul
and on the lines can you explain how US forces kill so many familes?


We are not talking about Americans we are talking Islam/muslims.

Your claim is members of Islam/muslim only kill in defense which as you well know is an out right lie.

[edit on 8/16/2007 by shots]



posted on Aug, 16 2007 @ 05:52 PM
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Originally posted by shots

Originally posted by bodrul
and on the lines can you explain how US forces kill so many familes?


We are not talking about Americans we are talking Islam/muslims.


Maybe we should be. The motivations may be different but the end result is the same.


Your claim is members of Islam/muslim only kill in defense which as you well know is an out right lie.

[edit on 8/16/2007 by shots]


Is it? He's denouncing "extremism." Isn't that is what has been asked on this board about a million times? Well you have the proof in a member here, are you going to ignore it? Much easier to sleep better if you can pigeon hole a complete race and condemn them.



posted on Aug, 16 2007 @ 06:01 PM
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Originally posted by intrepid
Much easier to sleep better if you can pigeon hole a complete race and condemn them.


Since when did Islam become a race? Shame on you, we all know the it is a religion not a race.




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