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Dutch Bishop Tells Christians to Call God 'Allah'

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posted on Aug, 16 2007 @ 08:09 AM
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Originally posted by djohnsto77

Originally posted by bodrul
edit: may i ask why no other main stream sources
actuily show any intrest in this?


There are like 3 pages of sources on Google News.


3 being fox
2 or so being catholic news
NYtimes
north county times
and so on

and its only 1 page on my screen




posted on Aug, 16 2007 @ 08:14 AM
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Originally posted by bodrul
and its only 1 page on my screen


Well there were three pages last night, I don't know what happened.

Still there are quite a few major news outlets carrying the story.


Anyway, enough with the OT posts please.

[edit on 8/16/2007 by djohnsto77]



posted on Aug, 16 2007 @ 08:29 AM
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"Allah" means "The God" in Arabic. In Aramaic, it's Ellah, in Hebrew, it's Elloh.

None of these are names for God, but rather titles meaning "The God."

The word "God" itself is not a name, because it's derived from the German word "Gott."

Point being, what the Bishop is doing is only making his followers mention thr word "God" in Arabic.



posted on Aug, 16 2007 @ 08:32 AM
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Originally posted by DJMessiah
Point being, what the Bishop is doing is only making his followers mention thr word "God" in Arabic.


Yes, I agree with you. But why?

Why don't Muslims both here and in the Middle East give up the word "Allah" and start using "God" then in the interest of mutual understanding and harmony?



posted on Aug, 16 2007 @ 08:42 AM
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Originally posted by djohnsto77
Why don't Muslims both here and in the Middle East give up the word "Allah" and start using "God" then in the interest of mutual understanding and harmony?


Because when Muhammad received the teachings of the Quran from Gabriel, the exact word for "God" was "Allah." Keeping in line with the original text of the Quran, Muslims choose to refer use of the pronunciation the angel used.

Similar reasoning would be if Christianity had started using what Jesus called "Ellah" and not use the German pronunciation which came later - "Gott," "God."


[edit on 16-8-2007 by DJMessiah]



posted on Aug, 16 2007 @ 08:49 AM
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Being from the Netherlands I have heard statements from this particulair bisshop before.

Personaly I couldn't care less what names are given to God or Buddah or Allah or whoever it is people in general consider to be a greater power.

However I do think that if you have chosen to follow a path, be it catholisism or another, you should agree with the teachings and standards of this path.

I'm quite sure that the Vatican does not approve of this God is Allah statement and therefor I don't find it very wise to make such a statement if you are a bisshop.

Juliet



posted on Aug, 16 2007 @ 08:49 AM
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I think some people are missing the point here. How far does Western culture go to appease a warlike religion that is based out of the 7th century? Europe has already capitulated to the Muslim "immigrant" horde and the UK will soon follow. All these weak socialist leaders will let these Muslims behead their own daughters in the name of a religion that was never theirs, just so no one gets offended. The irony is almost beautiful.

I do not see this as completely religious argument, but more of a hostile takeover of Western culture by an aggressive culture that has never known peace or progress in their existence. First it's "let's just call him Allah so we can be diverse and not offend the Muslims", then soon it will be "ok, we'll bow to Mecca 5 times a day, just don't be mad at us". Unreal.



posted on Aug, 16 2007 @ 08:50 AM
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Originally posted by Equinox99
if it is followed then we might
as well unite all of religion.


That would be soooo horrible. /sarcasm.



posted on Aug, 16 2007 @ 08:53 AM
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Originally posted by DJMessiah
Similar reasoning would be if Christianity had started using what Jesus called "Ellah" and not use the German pronunciation which came later - "Gott," "God."


Well we do, we use Jehovah, the Anglicized version of Yahweh/YHWH. But still that is not the name of God, I think the Bible has made clear that no human knows God's true name.



posted on Aug, 16 2007 @ 08:57 AM
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Originally posted by djohnsto77
Well we do, we use Jehovah, the Anglicized version of Yahweh/YHWH. But still that is not the name of God


Care to show me where I said it's the name of God?


I think the Bible has made clear that no human knows God's true name.


I think many Christians would disagree with you, keeping in mind that they believe Jesus to be God.



posted on Aug, 16 2007 @ 08:59 AM
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Originally posted by djohnsto77
I think the Bible has made clear that no human knows God's true name.


I was thinking the same thing. Isn't it that if his/her/it's name is spoken, then all creation is reversed or something? Or am I thinking of the movies "The Warlock" and "Dogma"?



posted on Aug, 16 2007 @ 09:00 AM
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Originally posted by DJMessiah
I think many Christians would disagree with you, keeping in mind that they believe Jesus to be God.


Yes, Jesus is God, but he is God the Son, part of the trinity. I was referring to the Old Testament Jewish God, God the Father.



posted on Aug, 16 2007 @ 09:08 AM
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Originally posted by shai hulud
I think some people are missing the point here. How far does Western culture go to appease a warlike religion that is based out of the 7th century?


Islam only allows fighting if it's self defense. If you're going to establish that it's a "war-like" religion based on the actions of extremists, then please show me a religion that isn't "war like."



Europe has already capitulated to the Muslim "immigrant" horde and the UK will soon follow.


What would be the reasoning for the immigrants coming to Europe?


All these weak socialist leaders will let these Muslims behead their own daughters in the name of a religion that was never theirs, just so no one gets offended.


If you believe a statement like this, then you can show us proof, right?



I do not see this as completely religious argument, but more of a hostile takeover of Western culture by an aggressive culture that has never known peace or progress in their existence.


You're right, because we all know Muslims have never contributed anything to the field of Mathematics, Medicine, Science, and Astronomy. We also know that the evil Muslim culture is out to take over the peaceful Western culture; the same western culture which has never caused any harm on anyone, and has never colonized other countries, never enslaved entire races, never started any wars, never forced their beliefs on anyone, and never shows an ounce of intolerance to anyone that doesn't agree with their beliefs.



First it's "let's just call him Allah so we can be diverse and not offend the Muslims", then soon it will be "ok, we'll bow to Mecca 5 times a day, just don't be mad at us". Unreal.


Would you like to show us where in the article the Bishop stated he wanted to use the word (not name) "Allah" to appease Muslims?



posted on Aug, 16 2007 @ 09:11 AM
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Originally posted by Griff
I was thinking the same thing. Isn't it that if his/her/it's name is spoken, then all creation is reversed or something? Or am I thinking of the movies "The Warlock" and "Dogma"?


There are similar stories among all three Ibrahimic religions. For Judaism, God's name is so sacred that no man can pronounce it. For Islam, God's real name is also unpronounceable by the human tongue.



posted on Aug, 16 2007 @ 09:12 AM
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If you put any faith in Kabbalah, then this is the closest we've come to knowing the name of God:



I'm not too convinced by it though... if I thought it was true, I surely wouldn't be posting it!



posted on Aug, 16 2007 @ 09:26 AM
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I don't see what the big deal is here.

God, Allah, YHWH, Elyon, Elohim are all the same meaning/name/etc

[edit on 16-8-2007 by infinite]



posted on Aug, 16 2007 @ 09:45 AM
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Islam only allows fighting if it's self defense. If you're going to establish that it's a "war-like" religion based on the actions of extremists, then please show me a religion that isn't "war like."


Really, then I suppose the middle east has been "self defending" each other for centuries now. All except for the ones who own the oil which the need for was derived from Western civilization.


What would be the reasoning for the immigrants coming to Europe?


Oh I don't know, running water, consistent electricity, food supply, hospitals, all the things they seem to be blowing up back home. Then when they get there, they show their appreciation by burning down the city. Look at Paris.




All these weak socialist leaders will let these Muslims behead their own daughters in the name of a religion that was never theirs, just so no one gets offended.




If you believe a statement like this, then you can show us proof, right?


I don't need proof, this is a personal opinion. Show me one socialist leader that will stand up to the Muslim horde?




You're right, because we all know Muslims have never contributed anything to the field of Mathematics, Medicine, Science, and Astronomy. We also know that the evil Muslim culture is out to take over the peaceful Western culture; the same western culture which has never caused any harm on anyone, and has never colonized other countries, never enslaved entire races, never started any wars, never forced their beliefs on anyone, and never shows an ounce of intolerance to anyone that doesn't agree with their beliefs.


Intolerance? Are you kidding me? These people cut peoples heads off if they believe in different religions. They kill their own daughters if the family thinks they are "unclean" through mercy killings. I never said Western culture never caused harm to anyone, no culture can say that, but we don't do it as a national pass time anymore either. That is called progress. I agree Middle Eastern culture contributed to all the fields that you mention, but somewhere along the way they adopted a religion that looks down on outside progress and embraces violence.




First it's "let's just call him Allah so we can be diverse and not offend the Muslims", then soon it will be "ok, we'll bow to Mecca 5 times a day, just don't be mad at us". Unreal.





Would you like to show us where in the article the Bishop stated he wanted to use the word (not name) "Allah" to appease Muslims?

Oh c'mon, we know what this is about. It is pure appeasement, nothing else.
Look if a Muslim wants to walk around in a buhrka in their own country, cool.
If a Muslim wants to pray 5 times a day, great. But not at the expense of mine or another country's beliefs.



posted on Aug, 16 2007 @ 09:52 AM
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Originally posted by bodrul
First I would like to clear it with Megadeth about allah and moon god as it looks like some hasn't got a clue about islam.

Also the term allah means the lord the creator, the one above,there is no god but he.



Allah is a moon god not the creater. Look in the old history of Arab. Most Arabs can't read the dilalet of the Koran. So how do they know what it really says? For all I know it could read Allah is a monkey. (This is not meant to offend.) Unless you have a masters in reading Arabic. Then you won't know how to read it.



posted on Aug, 16 2007 @ 09:55 AM
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Originally posted by Leyla
Allah is a moon god not the creater. Look in the old history of Arab. Most Arabs can't read the dilalet of the Koran. So how do they know what it really says? For all I know it could read Allah is a monkey. (This is not meant to offend.) Unless you have a masters in reading Arabic. Then you won't know how to read it.



Moon god was used by pagins before Islam

and i come from a line of Hafz (islamic scholors)
and i have shown and given refrence to Allah and moon god more then once

so belive what you want leyla

you have no idea about my faith but whats in your heart


edit:

this goes into depth explaining about pre-islamic arabs and how the moon has its place in islam

www.youtube.com...



[edit on 16-8-2007 by bodrul]



posted on Aug, 16 2007 @ 10:00 AM
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Originally posted by shai hulud
Show me one socialist leader that will stand up to the Muslim horde?


Do you even know what socialism is?

I think you've taken one to many of your Thatcherite pills




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