Something just does not make sense about conspiracy theories involving hidden symbols

the debunking of illuminati and its theories is quite a chaos and confusion,

Originally posted by Masonic Light
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Also, as a rule, anybody who talks about "low level Masons" demonstrates that he really doesn't know what he's talking about. In Masonry, there *are* no "low level Masons", as each brother is considered an equal. You will also find anti-Masons who believe that "lower level Masons" are those who have not been initiated into the Scottish Rite degrees. However, the Scottish Rite itself is subservient to the Grand Lodge in each state where it exists. The Grand Lodge is the Masonic government, and the only Masonic degree that a Grand Master, the highest ranking official, is required to hold is Master Mason (Third Degree). While he holds that office, he "outranks" all other Masons in the state, including 33° members of the Scottish Rite.

The "low level" mason theorists wil say that although the bylaws of masonry will state all masons are equal, in reality there might be some hierarchy where some masons outrank others. This rank may be based on the masons' degrees, or it could be a "secret" ranking regime in which there could be 33rd degree masons who are "low level" and 3rd degree masons who are "high level." For example, everybody in the US is supposedly equal under the US constitution. In reality we all know certain members of US society have more influence and rights than others.

Originally posted by hotpinkurinalmint


The "low level" mason theorists wil say that although the bylaws of masonry will state all masons are equal, in reality there might be some hierarchy where some masons outrank others.

It would depend. What exactly would you consider a "low Mason theorist"? A new Entered Apprentice? Someone not a Past Master? Or someone not a Knight Templar in the York Rite or a 33rd degree member of the Scottish Rite, or someone not an officer in a Lodge?

There certainly *is* a hierarchy in Masonry, just as in everything. But the hierarchy is clearly defined by Masonic law and tradition, and certainly isn't anything shadowy or unknown.

What a perfect topic for me. Ok ill explain why they use these symbols. And show that there is practical purpose.

The symbology is derived from old knowledge of bringing the macrocosm to the microcosm, or vice versa.

Please notice an excesive use of hexagons and octagons, circles, broken circles like a snake eating its tail..

Well also notice the "As above so below" mantra of many logos.

Both of these have to do with bringing the minds into your store to shop.
The images merely sit in your mind, telling your subconcious its pleased by the image. Now of course you say opposite, but thats because your concious mind is too logicial, and doesnt understand the illogic of the sub concious. THerefor leaving you wide open to self reinforced delusion about a brand, store, or whatever.

Aliester Crowley wrote about the hexagons and octagons and the macrocosm and microcosm. He as many know was into dark magic, and went a tad too far.

All of the symbols also have a communications use, revealing what the general knowledge of the secret society who creates it knows about something, or it also just mimks thier commonly understood knowledge.

Theyre not just there for show..and yes they do have evil intent. As shown with WTO and health regulations for our food. THe rest of government agencies oppressing us with unrightious drug laws.
Taxes, gas prices, cig prices, snack prices. Were all being insulted daily as we pretend to be free in the system of a cursed beast. People thousands of years ago warned others not to allow this system in, it seems they found a nice home here. As the devil being caged so many millenia, would seek freedom.

Call me crazy if you want. But I for some vague reason, know im mostly correct on this.

reply to post by mastermind77


not crazy. I think its safe to say that both sides of the conversation will agree that symbols are used as a form of communication on sub-aware levels. when someone makes a company logo, he wants to communicate not on a purely logical level but on the emotional and sub-aware level because he knows that the subconscious associates many things with certain symbols. when looking at some of the masonic symbolisim I actually "feel" something that I couldnt put into words.

Originally posted by mastermind77


Aliester Crowley wrote about the hexagons and octagons and the macrocosm and microcosm. He as many know was into dark magic, and went a tad too far.

I apologize for going off-topic for a second, but just wanted to mention:

Aleister Crowley, disregarding all the hype, was actually a pretty orthodox Rosicrucian - Hermetic Magician, and did not practice "black magic", as is often claimed on fundamentalist Christian websites and in their books.

Crowley himself was anti-Christian in the Nietzschean sense, because he believed it was a religion for slaves and sheep that lied to its congregations about practically everything. However, regardless of what we may personally think of Crowley's opinions on religion, the opinions he had on the subject did not make him "evil", only sort of anti-social (since his society was puritanistic Victorian England).

Originally posted by Masonic Light

It would depend. What exactly would you consider a "low Mason theorist"? A new Entered Apprentice? Someone not a Past Master? Or someone not a Knight Templar in the York Rite or a 33rd degree member of the Scottish Rite, or someone not an officer in a Lodge?

There certainly *is* a hierarchy in Masonry, just as in everything. But the hierarchy is clearly defined by Masonic law and tradition, and certainly isn't anything shadowy or unknown.

I am assuming you are a Mason. You probably agree with the statement that Masons are not secretly plotting to take over the world and you agree with the statement that there is nothing sinister about freemasonry. Your belief is sincere and is based on your first hand experiences. You have not witnessed devil worshipping ceremonies, human sacrifices, nor anything of that kind. You could not possibly imagine anybody you know in freemasonry doing any such thing, and in all probability the people you know in freemasonry are good people who would not do anything sinister.

The "low level mason" theorists will say that even though people like you are sincere when they say Masons are not really up to anything, it is because you are "in the dark" about what masonry is "really" about.

Originally posted by Skyfloating
reply to post by mastermind77

 

not crazy. I think its safe to say that both sides of the conversation will agree that symbols are used as a form of communication on sub-aware levels. when someone makes a company logo, he wants to communicate not on a purely logical level but on the emotional and sub-aware level because he knows that the subconscious associates many things with certain symbols. when looking at some of the masonic symbolisim I actually "feel" something that I couldnt put into words.

I think we can all agree that Masons, corporations, the Boyscouts, churches, sports teams, colleges, the military, etc. may use or design certain symbols or logos because they have some sort of aesthetic or emotional appeal. Just because a symbol or logo happens to be similar to a masonic symbol or logo, it does not mean the symbol in question is connected in any way to masonry. After all, there might be something about the aesthetic appeal of the symbol that makes it appealing to masons and many other groups that may also want to use the symbol.

To borrow an example from sports, many teams may use the lion as a mascot. There is an American football team called the Detroit Lions. In England, Chelsea FC uses the lion in its crest. There are probably dozens of other sports teams that use the lion as a mascot or symbol. We could conclude there is some conspiracy between Chelsea FC, the Detroit Lions, and any other team that uses the lion as a symbol. Or we could conclude that all these teams independently decided to use the lion as a symbol because the lion represents courage, strength, dominance, and other traits an athletic team would want to exhibit on the field of play.

Similarly, when we see a corporation using a masonic symbol in an advertisement, it could be that the corporation is using the symbol independent of masonry. They may have chosen to use the symbol because of its aesthetic appeal or emotional appeal independent of the masons.

reply to post by hotpinkurinalmint


what you said in your post to masonic light is basically this:

"non-masons know more about masonry than masons themselves".
I doubt this. why? because you can only know something that you have experienced, been part of. you cant really know something you have only READ.

Heres some food for thought: Some masons enjoy the anti-masonic-conspiracy-theories because they make them look bigger and more mysterious than they really are.

Originally posted by hotpinkurinalmint


The "low level mason" theorists will say that even though people like you are sincere when they say Masons are not really up to anything, it is because you are "in the dark" about what masonry is "really" about.

OK, I see what you're saying now (I think...correct me if I'm wrong). You contend that there are non-Mason theorists who claim that "low Masons" don't know what's going on in Masonry. If I've interpreted you correctly, yes, there are some folks who fit into this category on this very forum.

Still, this shows that is themselves, and not Masons, who are lost in the dark. The fraternity's government is the Grand Lodge, which consists (in most jurisdictions) of three representatives from each Lodge. Thus, each Lodge has three votes in Grand Lodge. Grand Lodge officers, including the Grand Master, are elected by this body, usually for a term of one year (although in my jurisdiction it is common for Grand Lodge officers to serve two terms, but they still must be re-elected).

All Master Masons in good standing can attend any and all meetings of Grand Lodge and have a voice in its proceedings, but only the representatives may actually vote. All Masonic law is published in the Grand Lodge Constitution and Code, and the Grand Lodge, as well as each individual Lodge, must abide by that law.

The York Rite is structured almost identically in their bodies.

The Scottish Rite, howeverm is different. Unlike the York bodies, Scottish Rite is not a democracy, and the Supreme Council is a self-perpetuating body. Here, the Supreme Council elects the Rite's leadership, instead of the rank and file members, as is the case with the York Rite.

Nevertheless, the Supreme Council does not operate in secret, and all of its proceedings are published. Also, the Scottish Rite is under the authority of the Grand Lodge, and all Scottish Rite Masons are obligated to obey the law of the Grand Lodge of their respective jurisdictions.

Originally posted by Skyfloating
reply to post by hotpinkurinalmint

 

what you said in your post to masonic light is basically this:

"non-masons know more about masonry than masons themselves".
I doubt this. why? because you can only know something that you have experienced, been part of. you cant really know something you have only READ.

Heres some food for thought: Some masons enjoy the anti-masonic-conspiracy-theories because they make them look bigger and more mysterious than they really are.

You are absolutely correct. If the truth about what really went on behind the closed doors of a lodge got out, the masons would be really upset. Not because people would find out that the masons were performing sacrifices to the devil or plotting a conspiracy to brainwash people, but because the truth of what goes on behind the closed doors is actually quite boring. How many people would want to join masonry if they knew lodge meetings just consisted of old men using parliamentary procedure to bicker over what weekend they should hold their next picnic.

reply to post by Masonic Light



What the "low level" theorists will say is that everything you just mentioned is just what the "low level" masons and the general public have been lead to believe. They claim the bylaws and rules you discussed are just the "public" rules for "low level" masons and the public to know about, while the "real" rules and "real" leadership committees are highly secretive and not known to anybody.

You simply would not be able to argue with the "low level" theorists because they will simply refute anything you have to say as being ignorant of the "real" inner workings and rules of masonry. If you said that you were on some high level secret leadership committee that helped set the satanic agenda and plan the conspiracies, they would probably accuse you of trying to spread misinformation.

reply to post by hotpinkurinalmint


Your contention, of course, would be correct. The theorists could also make identical claims about any other organizations, from the Kiwanis Club to the Presbyterian Church USA. Some folks most definitely prefer fantasy to fact.

How many times do we have to deal with the" There is a secret masonic power system that the rank and file dont know about but people outside the organisation do know about it blah blah blah" garbage ?

Is common sense dead ?

reply to post by RWPBR


The fact is sir that Big Mac Wrappers have the Golden Arches. MacDonald's is a Scotish sounding name and arches are symbols in masonry, ergo the Big Mac wrapper is a masonic symbol.

Big Macs also have special sauce, lettuce, cheese, tomatoes, pickles, on a sesame seed bun. The special sauce is a "secret" recipe. Secrets are the crux of masonry. Lettuce is green and so is money, and the one dollar bill has masonic symbols on it. Cheese comes from milk, which comes from cows, there are many cows in Wisconsin, as well as Masons. Tomatoes are red, blood is red, and blood is used in masonic baby-killing rituals. Pickles are salty, the ocean has salt, the ocean is blue, and masons describe their lodges as blue. Finally, sesame seed buns, can be abreviated SSB. SSB can also stand for super secret brotherhood.

You think all that was mentioned above could be defeated with this thing you call common sense? I am affraid you are in the dark my friend.....

reply to post by hotpinkurinalmint



You worked for that one. It was good for a big smile.

I don't understand why so many want to deny symbolism when it is so very prevailant in so many areas of our lives as far as the things we encounter.

The reason people go the secret conspiracy route is because some have the meanings of the particular uses available to them while others don't.

I want to know exactly what Isis is and why it is so powerful an image and what can be unlocked by knowing. So many paths lead there and don't go on to allow for understanding.

Please someone, what or who is Isis and how did she come to represent the most important of mysteries. Is she raw material to manifest or maybe even divine vehicle for spiritual possesion on earth. I'm grasping here, help me out someone in the "know"

Lift the veil of Isis so I can See!

Originally posted by interestedalways


Please someone, what or who is Isis and how did she come to represent the most important of mysteries. Is she raw material to manifest or maybe even divine vehicle for spiritual possesion on earth. I'm grasping here, help me out someone in the "know"

Lift the veil of Isis so I can See!

"I am Isis, Keeper and Mother of All Things. No mortal man hath ever Me unveiled."

Isis can be viewed in two different viewpoints. Known as Gaia in he Greek Mysteries, She is the Mother, Nature manifested, the Earth, as Osiris is the Sun.

In a more esoteric interpretation, She is Sofia, the Light of the Gnosis, and the High Priestess of the Tarot. She sits enthroned between the Pillars of Solomon and Hermes, indicating that She is the Middle Pillar, and is thus the Way. She is the symbol of subconsciousness, the House of Solomon's Treasures.

reply to post by Masonic Light



Thank you Masonic Light.

That was a very well expressed answer to my question.

I suppose there is no easy answer to bring understanding. Just doorways and keys. And alchemy!

You have at least given me something to work with.

I appreciate the sincerity you bring to the forum.

IA

I would love to indulge in this thread, however judging by how much approval the OP has gotten, it certainly seems like a bad idea. I've seen what happens when you try to swim upstream around here...



I'll just say that symbols are indeed important. You need only to look at the progression of heraldry and family coat of arms to understand how serious some people (and therefore corporations) take their symbols.

Comparing the CIA or Al-Qaeda to Secret Societies is not a valid analogy. CIA is an official organization, which deals with top-secret information. As with AQ, their very validity depends on the entire world knowing who they are, which is the exact opposite of a secret society, and also why secret societies use symbols to communicate, instead of naming things like "Central Secret Society."

[edit on 14-9-2007 by scientist]

Originally posted by scientist
I would love to indulge in this thread, however judging by how much approval the OP has gotten, it certainly seems like a bad idea. I've seen what happens when you try to swim upstream around here...
[edit on 14-9-2007 by scientist]

Oh c'mon be a salmon and swim upstream. It's a dirty job but somebody has to do it.

In my opinion symbols are the most important language available to us, except maybe the "language of the birds" which is hard to find information on.

All imput is valuable.