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Something just does not make sense about conspiracy theories involving hidden symbols

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posted on Aug, 15 2007 @ 02:45 PM
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Many conspiracy theorists will point to a pyramid shaped design on a Big Mac wrapper or a star shaped design on a rap album cover and say this is evidence of some masonic or illuminati conspiracy to dominate the world. These theories just do not make sense.

First of all, conspiracy theorists claim that these societies are highly secretive. Yet, the theorists contradict themselves when they point out that these secret societies are leaving symbols everywhere and in plain sight for everyone to see. Truly secretive societies or groups, like the CIA or Al Qaida do not leave signs of their presence. You do not Al Qaida painting symbols near their secret hideouts. Under cover CIA agents are not drawing CIA symbols everywehe they go.

Second, even if the secret societies were willing to lower their secrecy thresholds by spreading their symbols all over the place, the theorists fail to point out what the societies gain from doing so. What is it to the Illuminati if a Big Mac wrapper has an illuminati symbol on it? What is it to Skull and Bones if a Senator is seen in public with a Skull and Bones pin on his coat? Supposedly these groups are well aware of who their members are and the influence they have, so it is not as if they have to reaffirm their influence by spreading their symbols all over the place. Furthermore, their use of symbols cannot be said to act as a recruiting tool because the use is so cryptic that it would not be obvious to potential members who are not initiated into the secret society.




posted on Aug, 15 2007 @ 03:24 PM
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Yes, you have a point, I can only assume that it is part of a programme to get people used to the imagery which will be used by "Secret Societies" in the event of any NWO.

I take it by implication that you do not believe in the extent or intent of these "Secret Societies"?



posted on Aug, 15 2007 @ 08:51 PM
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I agree with hotpinkurinalmint. The whole notion is absurd, and I think it purely comes down to conspiracy theorists playing a bizarre game of "Where's Wally" with corporate logos. It amuses some people to draw specious links on superficial grounds, as they then feel like they've uncovered something which no one else could see.

Of course, I'm a Mason, so I'm probably one of the "bad guys" in their eyes.

I'm more than happy to explain Masonic symbolism as I know it, though. It's pretty rich, and can be mindboggling to the new researcher.



posted on Aug, 15 2007 @ 09:15 PM
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Originally posted by hotpinkurinalmint
Many conspiracy theorists will point to a pyramid shaped design on a Big Mac wrapper or a star shaped design on a rap album cover and say this is evidence of some masonic or illuminati conspiracy to dominate the world. These theories just do not make sense.


I couldn't agree with you more.

Heck, if someone walked into my room right now, they'd brand me as heaven knows what. I have pyramids, owls, all seeing eyes and loads of symbolic possesions.

The wrong person might want to burn me at the stake after seeing it all, even though I'm primarily concerned with little more than getting a decent cup of coffee and writing all day. No plans of world domination here, except in comics.


Originally posted by hotpinkurinalmint
First of all, conspiracy theorists claim that these societies are highly secretive. Yet, the theorists contradict themselves when they point out that these secret societies are leaving symbols everywhere and in plain sight for everyone to see. Truly secretive societies or groups, like the CIA or Al Qaida do not leave signs of their presence. You do not Al Qaida painting symbols near their secret hideouts. Under cover CIA agents are not drawing CIA symbols everywehe they go.


The only groups I know of that go around ritually tagging their personal symbols and philosophies everywhere in secret are professional urban artists, and the kids who scrawl territorial graffitti.

Well, and that Illuminati coffeehouse with the green. black and white trademark cups.




Originally posted by hotpinkurinalmintSecond, even if the secret societies were willing to lower their secrecy thresholds by spreading their symbols all over the place, the theorists fail to point out what the societies gain from doing so.


Customers?


What is it to the Illuminati if a Big Mac wrapper has an illuminati symbol on it? What is it to Skull and Bones if a Senator is seen in public with a Skull and Bones pin on his coat? Supposedly these groups are well aware of who their members are and the influence they have, so it is not as if they have to reaffirm their influence by spreading their symbols all over the place.



True, but it helps make one's ancient studies correlate with the modern use of the ancient symbols. Kind of keeps the myth alive and well.

Remember Tradition! Remember the past!


Furthermore, their use of symbols cannot be said to act as a recruiting tool because the use is so cryptic that it would not be obvious to potential members who are not initiated into the secret society.


Well, I've been interested in the reoccurance of certain symbols in society and consipracy theory enough to almost dedicate my entire life to the study, design and use of everlasting metaphors.

Not everything is malicious and subversive. My life had been rather laid back since I started studying the mystery religions.

In fact, it's a lot more relaxing than the "real" world.


Thanks for your time, love the thread!

Hope more people contribute!


[edit on 15-8-2007 by GENERAL EYES]

Mod Edit: BB Code.

[edit on 16/8/2007 by Mirthful Me]



posted on Aug, 15 2007 @ 10:30 PM
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I agree with the OP. People see what they want to see. According to them, every company's owner... or every professional logo artist marketing person (no I don't know the actual term) are working for these Secret Societies. It really doesn't make sense to me that people could see the hooters logo and automatically think of them as an evil corporation with ties to the NWO.

'
The thought intrigues me though. I don't believe in all of this subliminal messaging, and I'm still on the fence about secret societies at all, really, but it does all make for an intelligent "what if?" kind of situation.

[edit on 15-8-2007 by TheStarrunner]



posted on Aug, 15 2007 @ 10:41 PM
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But I found some contradiction in the OP.

On one hand he asks why if the secret societis wished to maintain secrecy why would they flaunt their symbols all around on hamburger wrappers and logos for all to see.

Yet the last paragraph says how the symbols could be useful as a recruitment tool except that only the initiated would make sense of it.
As if to say it is right in your face but you don't *see*

I don't know. There are so many layers upon layers when researching original meaning of symbols. Many have original meanings to different cultures so it is difficult to find the main vein, if you will.

Another question was posed regarding what would be the use of repetitive use of symbols. I think that by the continued and subtle placement of them in our daily lives they are given strengthened life on some level, through the creative material in the mind.



posted on Aug, 16 2007 @ 08:28 PM
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Originally posted by interestedalways
But I found some contradiction in the OP.

On one hand he asks why if the secret societis wished to maintain secrecy why would they flaunt their symbols all around on hamburger wrappers and logos for all to see.

Yet the last paragraph says how the symbols could be useful as a recruitment tool except that only the initiated would make sense of it.
As if to say it is right in your face but you don't *see*



Perhaps I should clarify. The alleged secret societies are not very secretive if they are leaving ubiquitous symbols in plain sight. To say these plain sight symbols can act as some sort of recruiting tool does not make sense either because the mesage they convey is not clear to someone who does not understand the symbolism.

Take this analogy. Assume an Al Qaida operative is living in a lilly white, rural American town and wants to hide himself, while at the same time try and recruit others to his cause. He would not want to pass out a bunch of fliers in Arabic around town because using Arabic would arouse suspicion and blow his cover. But even if he did not care about people being suspicious of him because he used Arabic, if he wrote the most eloquent and convincing recruiting flier in Arabic, it would not do him any good because nobody in town would understand the flier. Similarly, secret societies risk blowing their cover by leaving symbols all over the place, while at the same time they do little to recruit people because people are not going to understand the message behind the symbols.



posted on Aug, 16 2007 @ 08:34 PM
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Originally posted by Freeborn
Yes, you have a point, I can only assume that it is part of a programme to get people used to the imagery which will be used by "Secret Societies" in the event of any NWO.

I take it by implication that you do not believe in the extent or intent of these "Secret Societies"?


As to your first statement, the shapes and symbols found by conspiracy theorists in various articles are often not pronounced. It is difficult for the average person to become familiar with a pyramid, owl, or other symbol if he has to squint really hard to see the symbol in the article.

As to your second statement, I doubt that a secret society or secret society is controlling the world. That is not to say a small group of people hold a great deal of wealth and influence in the world, but to suggest this small group is working in concert, in secret, and engages in weird rituals is obsurd.



posted on Aug, 16 2007 @ 08:44 PM
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Originally posted by hotpinkurinalmint
Many conspiracy theorists will point to a pyramid shaped design on a Big Mac wrapper or a star shaped design on a rap album cover and say this is evidence of some masonic or illuminati conspiracy to dominate the world. These theories just do not make sense.

First of all, conspiracy theorists claim that these societies are highly secretive. Yet, the theorists contradict themselves when they point out that these secret societies are leaving symbols everywhere and in plain sight for everyone to see. Truly secretive societies or groups, like the CIA or Al Qaida do not leave signs of their presence. You do not Al Qaida painting symbols near their secret hideouts. Under cover CIA agents are not drawing CIA symbols everywehe they go.

Second, even if the secret societies were willing to lower their secrecy thresholds by spreading their symbols all over the place, the theorists fail to point out what the societies gain from doing so. What is it to the Illuminati if a Big Mac wrapper has an illuminati symbol on it? What is it to Skull and Bones if a Senator is seen in public with a Skull and Bones pin on his coat? Supposedly these groups are well aware of who their members are and the influence they have, so it is not as if they have to reaffirm their influence by spreading their symbols all over the place. Furthermore, their use of symbols cannot be said to act as a recruiting tool because the use is so cryptic that it would not be obvious to potential members who are not initiated into the secret society.



Wow, I love when people like yourself leave threads like this, and yet you've read absolutely nothing of secret societies or symbolism even in general. Ouch, if I were you I'd seriously do my homework. As a former member of the OTO I can gurantee that you are being brainwashed daily by mass symbolic media advertisements and bombardments of socioeconomic trends and clique criteria. I can also promise you that there are HUGE groups of people out there right now that take a lot of pride and openly laugh out loud at keeping you in the dark (in your cattle pens), and that are ready to go completely malthusian on you and yours. If I were you I'd read some Carl Jung and some Manly P. Hall and come back when you got a come back.



posted on Aug, 16 2007 @ 08:52 PM
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Also, point being, why it doesn't make sense to you?
Is because you've invested absolutely no reading time into this matter.
A third grade teacher could tell that. Anyone that's merely read the bible
could tell you that symbols such as the star, five pointed and six, and the cross
have literally brought people to war and extinction on many levels.
the moon, the crescent moon, the sun, the pyramid.
If there's nothing to it? Why are people dying and killing for symbols everyday?
Money is a symbol of status. The cross is a symbol of jesus and what he's done for you.
the five pointed star is a symbol for witch craft and protection, inverted evil, this stuff is in the marrow of us man. It always has been. Look at flags? why does every nation prop up symbols and colors? Please, you're silly. What about gangs? They kill for using finger symbols, of all the retarded things...



posted on Aug, 16 2007 @ 09:22 PM
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Originally posted by Horus8
Also, point being, why it doesn't make sense to you?
Is because you've invested absolutely no reading time into this matter.
A third grade teacher could tell that. Anyone that's merely read the bible
could tell you that symbols such as the star, five pointed and six, and the cross
have literally brought people to war and extinction on many levels.
the moon, the crescent moon, the sun, the pyramid.
If there's nothing to it? Why are people dying and killing for symbols everyday?
Money is a symbol of status. The cross is a symbol of jesus and what he's done for you.
the five pointed star is a symbol for witch craft and protection, inverted evil, this stuff is in the marrow of us man. It always has been. Look at flags? why does every nation prop up symbols and colors? Please, you're silly. What about gangs? They kill for using finger symbols, of all the retarded things...


Symbols in and of themselves do not get people to act, only when meanings are attributed to the symbols will people act. Before Hitler, the swastika had no negative connotations as a symbol and could even be found in some synagogues. Now people associate the swastika with hate because of Nazis' extensive use of the symbol and seeing the swastika conjures up strong negative emotions in many people.

Similarly, if you are unititiated, the symbols of a secret society have no meaning as no meaning has been attributed to them. How am I, an unitiated person, supposed to be affected by seeing a triangle or an eagle on a Big Mac wrapper if I have no idea of the secret meaning behind those symbols.

Now you may argue that the symbols act as some sort of visceral rallying cry for people within the society which can significantly change the thoughts or behaviors of those within the society. This argument does not hold. Members of these secret societies are supposedly intelligent people and master manipulators. Intelligent people and master manipulators use symbols to change the thoughts and behaviors of *OTHER PEOPLE*, such tactics will not work on their own kind. Therefore members of secret societies cannot use these symbols as a rallying cry to affect the thoughts or behavior of other members of the society.



posted on Aug, 16 2007 @ 11:09 PM
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No, I wouldn't argue that at all. I would argue that on another dimensional level, where you go when you sleep, or say experience '___' or other natural seritonin induced hallucinogens, that is the part of you that this secret language talks to in symbols and colors it speaks to you. A part of you that wakes up when you sleep. A part of you that decides what you were, what you now are, and what you consider to be important to you and your friends and family. Your shadow. The part of you that lives in fear of the world you occupy, projecting. That can't say what it wants to. Screw a rallying cry friend you were sold into slavery a long time ago without a peep, and so was I. No one needs to be initiated into the secret cult of common sense friend, the truth is in everyone's face, even the deaf, crippled, and blind.

[edit on 08/14/2007 by Horus8]

[edit on 08/14/2007 by Horus8]

[edit on 08/14/2007 by Horus8]



posted on Aug, 17 2007 @ 02:39 AM
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So.. who are you a slave of exactly?

I mean, it's all very well wearing your "the end is nigh" sandwichboard, and stridently accusing people of not knowing as much as you know, but... what are you actually going on about?

I think the thread has somewhat lost its way due to your contribution, to be honest. Sorry.



posted on Aug, 17 2007 @ 04:43 AM
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Originally posted by Roark
So.. who are you a slave of exactly?

I mean, it's all very well wearing your "the end is nigh" sandwichboard, and stridently accusing people of not knowing as much as you know, but... what are you actually going on about?

I think the thread has somewhat lost its way due to your contribution, to be honest. Sorry.




But his posts do illustrate the absurdity of trying to read too much into a Big Mac wrapper. Perhaps there are others out here who can make a better argument as to why these symbols are proof of a secret society conspiracy.



posted on Aug, 17 2007 @ 12:00 PM
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Originally posted by Roark
I agree with hotpinkurinalmint. The whole notion is absurd, and I think it purely comes down to conspiracy theorists playing a bizarre game of "Where's Wally" with corporate logos. It amuses some people to draw specious links on superficial grounds, as they then feel like they've uncovered something which no one else could see.

Of course, I'm a Mason, so I'm probably one of the "bad guys" in their eyes.

I'm more than happy to explain Masonic symbolism as I know it, though. It's pretty rich, and can be mindboggling to the new researcher.



You're about as masonic as the Mcdlt wrapper. There hasn't been a real Mason around since Manly P. Hall kicked it. Anyone that props up any organization is merely afraid to stand on their own in life. If you can't walk alone, you certainly bring nothing to a group.



posted on Aug, 17 2007 @ 03:19 PM
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Originally posted by Horus8
You're about as masonic as the Mcdlt wrapper. There hasn't been a real Mason around since Manly P. Hall kicked it. Anyone that props up any organization is merely afraid to stand on their own in life. If you can't walk alone, you certainly bring nothing to a group.


Well that yielded precisely the result I expected; instead of answering the question or posting something to clarify or further elucidate us as to your thoughts on the topic, you chose the ad hominem route and just start flaming people.



Yay for your side.

You still didn't answer the question though. If you're a slave, who's your Master?

P.S. Great thread, OP.



posted on Aug, 18 2007 @ 01:33 AM
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reply to post by Horus8
 


"If I were you I'd read some Carl Jung and some Manly P. Hall and come back when you got a come back."

Yeah, but if I were you I would touch up on some Jesus Christ and realize that those two people you mentioned don't mean a thing.

L8tr



posted on Aug, 19 2007 @ 12:38 AM
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Sorry about my earlier post I get a little heated at times. I am sorry though.

In reply to the original post the fraternity of Freemasonry brotherhood is no longer a secret but their meanings and all their magic and crap is, which is supposedly harmless. Why it's such a secret that needs protecting, I don't know. Also, as my father-in-law who recently invited me to Freemasonry put it "sometimes all you have to do is flash that ring around and it carries a lot of weight". That was in reply to losing my job and interviews. See, that's the advantage of secrecy, it carries power.



posted on Aug, 19 2007 @ 01:03 AM
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The saying "every picture tells a story" is a fitting statement when thinking of the fullness that a symbol can carry.

A symbol can mean something insignificant to some where as to others it may be demonstrative of a life time of learning to decifer different symbolic truths as believed by those who choose to incorporate them and use them as communication tools.

It seems many times a symbol is used to convey many different levels of understanding based on the depth of the knowledge of the observer.

On another level by repetition of symbols it keeps the image alive in the conciousness of the worlds population through a constant circulation of it's image and variations of it's image. At the same time having many explanations of it's meanings but never uttering it's deepest and most true meaning. Keep you chasing your tail trying to find the root of the truth!

Also I could see how the symbols placed in particular places and at particular times would send signals to those in the know as to what stage the plans are in.



posted on Aug, 19 2007 @ 03:22 AM
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I actually see how the Pontiac symbol can reflect a Masonic symbol now but the bad news is it's RED. Also, in Hiram's Key theory do you really think there was a massive colonization here from another star system approximately 17,000 years ago?



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