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Underage Drinking within Britain

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posted on Aug, 15 2007 @ 02:15 AM
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Reuters - Police chief wants alcohol crackdown


LONDON (Reuters) - A senior policeman has called for the legal drinking age to be raised to 21 to tackle the "scourge of anti-social behaviour" that has blighted many areas.

Cheshire Chief Constable Peter Fahy said society must address the causes behind a rise in under-age drinking, alcohol-fuelled violence and vandalism.

He blamed parents for failing to keep their children under control and said the drinks industry was guilty of selling alcohol too cheaply.


Fair dues there are problems but why suggest raising the drinking age to 21, not only is there a massive economy based on alcohol drunk responsibly by those 18 to 21 having a good time but such a measure will do nothing to combat the underage drinking.

This isn't a problem we can fix just by simply throwing a few more laws at it or by raising the drinking age, its a ingrained mentality which needs to be corrected.

Letting your children have wine mixed with water as they do in France and Italy introduces them to alcohol safely from a young age enabling them to grow up with it rather than discover it later on and get drawn into the sudden temptation of it.



[edit on 15-8-2007 by UK Wizard]

[edit on 15-8-2007 by UK Wizard]




posted on Aug, 15 2007 @ 05:17 AM
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I agree - raising the drinking age isn't the solution here. Stricter enforcement of the present drinking age (nasty fines for shop owners/pub staff who knowingly sell alcohol to minors, for instance, as well as going for the underage drinkers themselves) coupled with better education in schools are required as well.

I also agree that we need to tackle the whole culture of alcohol and change it to one more the French idea. It's certainly a long-term process, and it's not just down to the government/police (who people rely on far too much, I think, rather than doing things for themselves) to sort things out.



posted on Aug, 15 2007 @ 07:14 AM
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And who amongst us only starting buying alcohol at 18??

While this seems a good idea on the surface, it hardly solves the problem. If people under 18 or 21 want alcohol, they will find people who will buy it for them. And in my local supermarket, I have never heard anyone being challenged to prove there age when buying alcohol (and yes, hardy a scientific survey I know!!)

This seems to go back to parenting and social values, which has been discussed on these forums before.

At least Cheshire Chief Constable Peter Fahy has got this in to the main stream and we, amongst others are discussing it.

But this is not something one Cheshire Chief can solved. It needs Government to have a policy. It will be interesting to see if our new prime minister reacts?



posted on Aug, 15 2007 @ 09:11 AM
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Oh come on it's just another sabre rattle!

How many times have we heard this one before?

Over ten years ago I was the assistant manager of a public house in the south of England, there was always underage problems, no matter how many people I carded, I was a Bar Steward for it! Then there was the ganja smokers in the beer garden and the deviants using the kiddies playhouse as a brothel every Saturday night.

Take away the ability for youngsters to go out and get loaded and have a good time and then you'll start to see some social problems. You'll have gangs of idiots running riot over neighbourhoods looking for trouble just for something to do! This won't just be in innercity housing estates either. Small peaceful little hamlets, towns with a main street and a few pubs will become battle grounds with gangs of bored hoody wearing numpties smashing windows and robbing good people to get some form of a kick outta life.

At err below 18 if I couldn't have gotten away with drinking in my local, playing pool and dancing on the tables. I could so easily have gone bad. I was a very bored frustrated teenager with X amount of energy and Y amount of focus.

That and there were no youth centres, social workers (well not visably putting themselves out there) or anything really to entertain the teens of my generation, not where I grew up anyhow. Maybe things are different now. Maybe they need to be!

Putting up the drinking age is not the answer. IMHO!

MonKey



posted on Aug, 15 2007 @ 02:24 PM
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How Much Is Underage Drinking Really to Blame for Uncivilised Kids?

I used to drink when I was underage and I bet most who are on this forum also drank when they were underage. When I was 16 I would often get drunk on weekends with friends. Yet I never smashed any windows, torched any vehicles or attacked any strangers (a part from one time when I would have (quite rightfully) lost my temper anyway (drunk or sober).

How about you, have you ever committed any crimes when drunk and underage?
And if you did, do you really think it would make much difference if you had been a few months or few years old enough to be 18?
Because when we talk about underage drinking causing crime this is what the argument comes down to: “To what degree does being young and drunk = causing crime when drunk, compared with causing crime when drunk and within legal age?”

Otherwise we’re just talking about alcohol causing crime. This is a well documented fact, but frankly the only solution is to ban it (something that failed miserably in 1920’s America; never mind it being hugely unpopular).

I don’t know it; but I’d hardly be surprised if many people were less likely to commit serious drink crime at say 12 compared with 21. It’s like children verses criminals: Every face spitting, mugging yob was once a child; and when they were, they were probably a very nice, innocent person, (just like almost every other child is). Over time, things change, and stuff goes wrong and so they become a threat to humanity by the time they’re about 15 or 18, regarding these types many don’t stop becoming nasty people at 18. Often it’s mostly completed, but they still have lots to learn in becoming truly street wise in the art of crime committing.

The Real Problem…
Is the character of the teens who commit alcohol crime at that point in time. Many are in fact a classic case for abortion (they’re “parents” screwed them up with non-parenting).
Also alcohol simply affects the parts of the brain that stop you behaving how you want to behave, if the teen beats someone to death when drunk, then that says a lot more about their characters nature. And bar some life changing revolution, they may well be just as likely to do it at 16 as 18, or 18 as 21.
Many other people I’ve seen were clearly learning how to handle alcohols effects; so if you delay this “learning curve” then surely it will merely happen at some later date? In which case I would rather be punched by someone who’s 15 than 21 (which is effectively what this police guy would be advocating).

I agree with Freedom ERP in particular. Because when I was underage we would just get those older enough (or with fake I.D’s) to buy it for us. And when I got to 18 my first booze trip was for other people as well as myself. I only stopped doing it when I didn’t no know so many people who were 16-17 anymore.
Also when I was very young (like 13-14) people would supply us with alcohol because there was money to me made (they usually took about 30-20%). Sometimes they were 16, and sometimes 18, the point is the system fails. But perhaps the government can better address the character of tomorrow’s adults?



posted on Aug, 16 2007 @ 12:38 AM
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I'm not from Britain, but I can tell you that we here in the U.S. are taking a look at our standard of 21 years age for drinking.

One of the biggest problems is toxic liquor consumption by minors, which ironically, the high age limit helps foster.

Reason being you ask? Well, if an individual is underage they have no recourse but to engage in their drinking except illicitly, without supervision. Whereas, in a legal establishment, the proprietors are legally responsible to refuse anyone who has visibly consumed too much alcohol. And further, if such did occur, to obtain medical assistance for said dead drunk.

So what you inevitably have is a bunch of college students who go to some secluded space and drink themselves silly and eventually, here and there, one of them drinks a swig too much and ....

Thus, the law actually facilitates death by alcohol consumption.



posted on Aug, 16 2007 @ 06:31 AM
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Im only 17 and ill admit i go to the pub, i wouldnt say im anti solcil, i have 4/5 pints play a bit pool, have a laf with some of the older blokes there and then go home get up and go to Tesco's (place were i work)

If the age rises then money from drink will go down, so wont some sort of tax go up ?


Take Care, Vix


Edn

posted on Aug, 16 2007 @ 12:27 PM
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Legal drinking age or legal buying age? Theres a difference because you can legally drink at the age of 4 so long as you accompanied by a guardian.



posted on Aug, 16 2007 @ 12:44 PM
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Originally posted by Edn
Legal drinking age or legal buying age? Theres a difference because you can legally drink at the age of 4 so long as you accompanied by a guardian.


Here in the U.S. it's drinking age. In fact, a parent or gaurdian could (and actually have been) be prosecuted for providing alcohol to their child.
Your drinking age could be why you don't have quite the same problem. Or is fatal consumption a problem there as well in the U.K.?



posted on Aug, 16 2007 @ 05:10 PM
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reply to post by passenger
 


It's more the consequences of over-consumption (but not to fatal limits) and the things that drinking excessive amounts of alcohol causes you to do (or perhaps helps you to do... I'm sure that getting blind drunk doesn't turn you into someone who is willing to kill. That part of you is there already and the alcohol simply makes you less able to control it). Drunk yobs murdering people, for instance.



posted on Aug, 18 2007 @ 06:22 AM
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Im only 17 and ill admit i go to the pub, i wouldnt say im anti solcil, i have 4/5 pints play a bit pool, have a laf with some of the older blokes there and then go home get up and go to Tesco's (place were i work)

If the age rises then money from drink will go down, so wont some sort of tax go up ?


Heck I was 16, when I started going to the pubs n getting drunk, I never went out looking for trouble, nor did the crowd I hung about in. Isnt alot of the teenagers getting drunk nowadays and causing trouble, because there is nothing for them to do, at this age, When I was 13/14, there were youth clubs, raves, or other things to do so you were in a secluded area, not going out causing trouble for everyone else.

Nowadays most youth clubs are closed down, if there is any raves/discos, these are policed. Another thing the powers that be need to take into account, it is not just alcohol, if they raise the age limit, the teenagers will find ways around this to get booze no matter what.

Also have to take into consideration that alot more teenager nowadays are taken drugs, so maybe they need to concentrate on this rather than targeting Underage drinkin. Tackle the drugs misuse by teenagers then tackle alcohol.

Just my opinion on this issue.



posted on Aug, 18 2007 @ 07:07 AM
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Originally posted by spencerjohnstone
Another thing the powers that be need to take into account, it is not just alcohol, if they raise the age limit, the teenagers will find ways around this to get booze no matter what.


Absolutely right. If underage drinkers are getting alcohol now, how will raising the age limit stop them? Just looks like a bit of a publicity stunt to me to make it look as if something is being done.



posted on Aug, 18 2007 @ 12:00 PM
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Originally posted by Ste2652
reply to post by passenger
 


It's more the consequences of over-consumption (but not to fatal limits) and the things that drinking excessive amounts of alcohol causes you to do (or perhaps helps you to do... I'm sure that getting blind drunk doesn't turn you into someone who is willing to kill. That part of you is there already and the alcohol simply makes you less able to control it). Drunk yobs murdering people, for instance.


To add to this I am very wary when some politician or police chief start pasting up their own opinions as to the rise in public disorder. Drinking bad parenting etc all have a part to play but there seems to be this covert message that seeks to excuse accountability by once removing the subject from their actions. It's the drinks fault, the parents fault, they suffer from social exclusion (normally because they've chosen to exclude themselves) at the end of the day, crappy people do crappy things regardless of age, race, environment and what works to bring them in line is a big, strong, unpleasant dose of consequences to be paid.



posted on Aug, 18 2007 @ 12:16 PM
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Absolutely right. If underage drinkers are getting alcohol now, how will raising the age limit stop them? Just looks like a bit of a publicity stunt to me to make it look as if something is being done.


Well there was a article on the BBC new website yesterday, A police officer from ceshire, saying that some should be taken into care, ifparents are caught providing their children with Booze. Its funni I bet this guys kids when they grow up will do the exact same thing, buy booze behind their parents back.

I find it kinda ridiculous, that he tries and ridicule society for the trend in underage drinkin, when it is society that haslet teenagers down. We all drank alcohol when we were younger, so it makes no difference nowadays. Difference is we had more to do when we were younger, as I have previously commented in my previous post.

This generation didnt learn as much as we did when we were younger, so yes I find it hypocritical that someone like him cticisez other parents. Maybe he should look at his own family/relatives before he criticizes others.

Another thing why target underage drinkin? Is not most of the crime that is happenin drug-related offences. All you see in the news nowadays is drink related crime. Not much on drugs-related crime. Little if focused on this.

To me the home secretary hit this on the head:


She said: "People are getting hold of alcohol under 18. If we raise the age to 21 it's not going to stop people managing to get hold of alcohol


Give these teenagers somewhere to go first, rather than them hanging around in parks, street corners etc. Instead of cutting back on youth centres, raves/discos. Too many councils up and down the UK have cut funding for youth facilities. But yet they raise the council tax, after all that is what the council tax is partly for.



posted on Aug, 18 2007 @ 02:55 PM
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Originally posted by spencerjohnstone


Give these teenagers somewhere to go first, rather than them hanging around in parks, street corners etc. Instead of cutting back on youth centres, raves/discos. Too many councils up and down the UK have cut funding for youth facilities. But yet they raise the council tax, after all that is what the council tax is partly for.



I agree with this, more activities and places to congregate would certainly help but again I'm wary that this is adopted as an excuse for all for bad behaviour at least the worst excesses. I suspect it's a sad fact of modern life that there are groups and individuals, and not just the young either, who revel in acting out an ugly, offensive and morally redundent lifestyle and quite frankly get their sadistic little rocks off on causing misery to others. They think it makes them look hard.



posted on Aug, 18 2007 @ 02:57 PM
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If you raise the age more people aere goign to get drunk, when your 14/15 with all your amtes and you have a crate, you ALL HAVE TO GET DRUNK, or your not 'one fo the lads' and we all know what i mean, but now, im 17 i Illegally drink at my pub, they think im 18, i have i dunno a few pints, then go home sleep it off and go to work, if i was with my mates i would HAVE to get drunk to be 'one of the lads', i think the phrase is...peer presure.


Take Care, Vix



posted on Aug, 18 2007 @ 09:09 PM
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Personally, I don't think it is the availability of alcohol that is the issue. After all, you can ban something to high heaven and people will still be able to get it, tax free as well (cannabis for example).

The problem is the lack of anything for Youngsters to do, especially in urban area's. Gone are the day's where there are multiple Youth clubs, or, if there are some, they only open for a few hours a night and only a few nights a week.

Some pilot schemes in area's that suffer from ASB have had kids going to regular sport coaching, such as boxing. Boxing is good for young males as it provides an outlet for the aggression brought on by the sudden surge in testosterone, plus a competitive outlet also. Almost immediately, those area's blighted by problems see a noticeable drop in crime and ASB.

This, combined with the discipline needed for sport instills a good mental attitude in youngsters. It's not just boxing, but any sport. Or any activity for that matter.

The only reason why kids are out on the streets drinking and causing trouble is boredom. The parents don't care enough to "push" their kids into sport or social clubs, so they go out onto the streets and "hang out" with a bottle of White Lightning.

When I was a teenager (in fact, from the age of 10) my dad got me into Rugby. I played 2 or 3 times a week for Reading, my School and Berkshire County, plus training and was on the verge of an England youth call up until I bodged my knee up in a training session.

Kept me out of trouble. I was often to tired to cause trouble!!

The solution is so simple, it is a joke the Government just doesn't release money for Youth programs which were cut in the 80's and 90's. Local Authorities cannot afford to do it alone as they are already expected to shoulder other burdens. It is glaringly obvious that there is a correlation between the decline of Youth programs and the rise in ASB.



posted on Aug, 19 2007 @ 06:52 AM
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Originally posted by stumason

The problem is the lack of anything for Youngsters to do,


Genius, thats the whole problem, football fields, sports halls and half pipes. There the way forward, not stupid bans. If the age goes to 21 more people will get drunk, its like an alpha male type thing, when your a young lad, the lad who can have the most drink is the silver back of the urban monkey group
all you do is get another 3 generations of silver backs imerging, i hope the goverment relise what there doing, and why hasnt any one just asked the kids ' Why you drink ?'.


take care, Vix



posted on Aug, 19 2007 @ 11:39 AM
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The solution is so simple, it is a joke the Government just doesn't release money for Youth programs which were cut in the 80's and 90's. Local Authorities cannot afford to do it alone as they are already expected to shoulder other burdens. It is glaringly obvious that there is a correlation between the decline of Youth programs and the rise in ASB


I councils did not spend thousands of pounds of tax payers money on doing up their offices, then maybe they would have the money available to reopen youth facilities. As it is now, council officials spend money on their own personel expense rather than looking at the root problems
facing teenagers nowadays.

[edit on 19-8-2007 by spencerjohnstone]



posted on Aug, 20 2007 @ 05:24 AM
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Originally posted by spencerjohnstone

I councils did not spend thousands of pounds of tax payers money on doing up their offices, then maybe they would have the money available to reopen youth facilities. As it is now, council officials spend money on their own personel expense rather than looking at the root problems
facing teenagers nowadays.

[edit on 19-8-2007 by spencerjohnstone]


I'm all for it, I think it'll certainly help, especially whith those at risk of becoming involved in crime. I don't think it will be the miracle answer just one of a raft of measures to get people out of this anti social mindset that seems so entrenched within portions of UK society.



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