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Stanton Friedman Exposed: The MJ-12 Hoax

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posted on Aug, 14 2007 @ 08:44 PM
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(saw this on UFO UpDates yesterday)

Brad Sparks has some "new" revelations about the origins of the MJ-12 hoax...

MUFON 2007 INTERNATIONAL UFO SYMPOSIUM PROCEEDINGS

"AN ESTIMATE OF THE SITUATION: THE EXTRATERRESTRIAL HYPOTHESIS"

www.mufon.com...

I haven't a chance to go through it all with a fine tooth comb yet (it's long and very well written) but it appears Stanton Friedman (among others) may have been more "complicit" then he would like us to believe as I (and no doubt many others) suspected...


As Friedman admits, if MJ-12 is a hoax "somebody had to do a lot of homework that no one else has done" except Moore and Friedman - who however had passed their "homework" on to Doty/AFOSI. When Moore and Friedman saw many of the same "facts" from their own research appearing in these supposedly leaked classified documents they saw it as confirmation, rather than as clever echoing of their own ideas and research.


Does Friedman really believe we're that stupid to believe he’s that stupid?

Also...


Moore's candid description of how his information given to Doty was within months turned into a fake document, the Aquarius Carter Briefing, planted on another UFOlogist, is an important and useful model for understanding the AFOSI disinformation methodology as carried out by Doty the "Sparrow," the "Falcon" Colonel and their AFOSI counterintelligence cohorts.


Hmm... a "disinformation" loop... interesting concept.

Remind me again why anybody ever believed Richard Doty was "connected" and ever had any "official" knowledge of UFOs?


Not sure I totally agree with Sparks' theory that Doty was doing this as part of an officially sponsored AFOSI "disinformation" campaign to make UFOlogists look stupid instead of for purely financial reasons or his own self-gratification... though I suppose it's possible.


What do you all think?




posted on Aug, 14 2007 @ 09:06 PM
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I doubt Friedman is in on it. Why would he spend 30+ years studying the subject on top of his major science credentials to do this?

It doesn't add up.



posted on Aug, 14 2007 @ 09:30 PM
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At the same time, one could argue the theory that Doty would involve himself after the "leak" had taken place in order to try to diminish its potential authenticity..

It may or may not be bogus.. Who can really tell for sure? Anything Richard Doty is involved in should be looked at with suspicion, however, I dont think Stanton Friedman would knowingly participate in a hoax. It would be uncharacteristic of him to take the chance of potentially be remembered as a hoaxer of some sort.

[edit on 14-8-2007 by LogicalThinker]



posted on Aug, 14 2007 @ 09:40 PM
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Is "Majic 12" real, hmmm . . . I don't know? But, I remember in the movie "Tora, Tora, Tora . . ." that there was a top secret group called the majestic 12 for ultra top secret intercepts. Could this not be proof that majic 12 exist, even before Roswell???



posted on Aug, 14 2007 @ 10:00 PM
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All I saw was "Doty". When I saw Doty I saw something stunk. It stunk real bad.



posted on Aug, 14 2007 @ 11:22 PM
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I think that any so called evidence forwarded by any 'ex'-Intelligence Officer is to be taken with a grain of salt. And that includes anyone who now happens to be in any 'civilian' investigative body, such as MUFON.

I have no doubt that 99+% of everything that makes its way into mainstream ufology is a convoluted mess of disinformation. I find any finger-pointing therein almost amusing


[edit on 8/14/2007 by uv777bk]



posted on Aug, 15 2007 @ 12:03 PM
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I agree that it doesn't make sense to invest 30 years (or however many years) of his life researching something that he knows to be a hoax. He doesn't give me the impression of being a fool either. If the MJ-12 documents are completely and absolutely blown out of the water, I'd certainly feel sorry for the guy for wasting so much time. I'm a bit mixed about the actual documents though. Some things sound really plausible and make a lot of sense while a few details just leave me scratching my head (doesn't help to have them censored) Have they been completely debunked? I remember reading stuff about the dating used on them being wrong... that's it. Anyways, I'm sure there will be a bunch of people slamming Friedman because they just don't like him and others will support him with blind faith.



posted on Aug, 15 2007 @ 12:20 PM
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Originally posted by Access Denied
Hmm... a "disinformation" loop... interesting concept.

Remind me again why anybody ever believed Richard Doty was "connected" and ever had any "official" knowledge of UFOs?


Not sure I totally agree with Sparks' theory that Doty was doing this as part of an officially sponsored AFOSI "disinformation" campaign to make UFOlogists look stupid instead of for purely financial reasons or his own self-gratification... though I suppose it's possible.


What do you all think?


I'm with you on this Access. Doty is a real humdinger, and Ufology pinned waaaay too much on a guy who was in a department where thousands upon thousands of service members have served without any other single source leaking info about UFOs or alien contacts.

Which, if anyone were to really be critical on the issue, probably means Doty saw an opportunity for some fame, fortune, who knows? I doubt he was the spearhead of a government sponsored disinfo campaign aimed at Ufologists.



posted on Aug, 15 2007 @ 12:22 PM
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Originally posted by mel1962
Is "Majic 12" real, hmmm . . . I don't know? But, I remember in the movie "Tora, Tora, Tora . . ." that there was a top secret group called the majestic 12 for ultra top secret intercepts. Could this not be proof that majic 12 exist, even before Roswell???


It could. Certainly Majic 12 may have been a real committee; but were they involved in UFOs or did someone take a supersecret organization involved in work more terrestrial in nature (enemy intercepts) and planted fake stories of UFOs and alien bodies in the text?



posted on Aug, 15 2007 @ 01:26 PM
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I would hope Friedman is on the level.He has been in several of the earliest UFO documentaries on TV and those are what sparked my interestin the subject.It would be very disapointing to know that one of ufology's heros was fraudulent.



posted on Aug, 15 2007 @ 02:59 PM
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the reason they faked the documents was to try and "smoke out" potential witnesses. Friedman thought it was a good idea. He thought writing books on the subject and making a profit on the hoax was a good idea too. Shame



posted on Aug, 15 2007 @ 03:14 PM
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Stan is no different than any "for profit" ufo investigator. He's a total fool. Every time I see an interview with him (or listen to one) I am embarrassed for him. He knows NOTHING more than anybody on this forum for crying out loud. He has no special investigating skill that anyone on this forum could use. I like watching him on tv, just because I like hearing anything about UFO's, but I don't place any more faith in his views than I do with the average post here on ATS.

Those who think he has some special knowledge or some super secret inside track on the whole UFO thing are blind.



posted on Aug, 15 2007 @ 10:36 PM
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Originally posted by Valhall
All I saw was "Doty". When I saw Doty I saw something stunk. It stunk real bad.

Tell us how you really feel.



Originally posted by DemonicAngelZero
I'm a bit mixed about the actual documents though. Some things sound really plausible and make a lot of sense while a few details just leave me scratching my head (doesn't help to have them censored) Have they been completely debunked?

If you’re not sure, I recommend you read this (all 70 pages!) and make up your own mind…

The Secret Pratt Tapes and the Origins of MJ-12
www.mufon.com...

It really should be required reading for anyone interested the subject.



posted on Aug, 16 2007 @ 10:53 AM
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Originally posted by Access Denied
Not sure I totally agree with Sparks' theory that Doty was doing this as part of an officially sponsored AFOSI "disinformation" campaign to make UFOlogists look stupid instead of for purely financial reasons or his own self-gratification... though I suppose it's possible.


What do you all think?


Firstly thanks for raising this material.

Secondly whilst you need to substitue Dodgy for Doty whenever you see the name it appears that he was an agent employed by the AFOSI at the time of most of these shenanigans and I just can't see that he would carry out what he has without some form of official approval.

Whether thats disinformation for discreditation due to AF paranoia or as a planned multi agency backed cover the truth campaign is difficult to call based on the available evidence but hopefully future verifiable disclosures will shed further light.

Complete discreditation of all MJ12 documentation doesn't mean that MJ12 or similar did or doesn't still exist but it's good to know that serious investigative work is being carried out such as presented in this material.



posted on Aug, 16 2007 @ 05:27 PM
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I have just read the entire document. It took me several hours. After slogging through these seventy pages of detail I have to say that the title of this thread is completely mis-leading. Stanton Friedman has NOT been exposed by this document. That is pure speculation. The author provided a possible scenario for a feedback loop, indicating Moore (not Friedman) passed information to Doty who then passed it back in the MJ-12 documents. Although the author provides quite a lot of detail on meetings and some history of the issues, it is more of an analysis of USAF reactions to the UFO community, quite reminscent of Richard Dolan's UFOs and the National Security State repeating, for example, the story of the demise of NICAP, this time blaming it on the USAF instead of directly laying it at the feet of the CIA. Friedman is mentioned very few times in this document, and never as an active player in terms of the relationship between Moore and Doty. If anyone comes out smelling here it is Moore, who intentionally fed dis-information to Bennewitz, who subsequently had a breakdown, and Doty, the ultimate sleaze ball one ought never to trust.

the author does a good job showing the potential fakery involving the Eisenhower debriefing memo, but actually never ties this all to the original MJ-12 documents except by implication. The actual MJ-12 documents are not dealt with at all.

This document may very well be a sound analysis of some of the MJ-12 issues. I'm not trying to say the document is false. What I am saying is that Friedman is not implicated here in any kind of wrong doing.



posted on Aug, 16 2007 @ 05:31 PM
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I agree with Schu.
Friedman seems on the up-and-up.

About Majestic 12 in Tora, Tora, Tora...

There was a group during WWII called
MAJESTIC. There was no "12".

Regards,
Lex



posted on Aug, 17 2007 @ 01:06 AM
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Originally posted by schuyler
What I am saying is that Friedman is not implicated here in any kind of wrong doing.

And you call yourself a conspiracy theorist.


Deconstruct this…


In fact, Friedman almost gives away the store when he allows “there is some truth” to the working of a disinformation feedback loop whereby his Roswell research with Moore was used by hoaxers – possibly Doty / AFOSI as we quoted him intimating above – to manufacture the MJ-12 documents containing all their best candidates for MJ-12 member names and their latest Roswell crash research:

“There is, of course, all the information dealing with the Roswell incident that’s described in the [Eisenhower] briefing memo. A skeptic might say that since Friedman and Moore already knew all of this, there is nothing new there. There is some truth in that, although most people didn’t know about our [pre-MJ-12] investigation of the various names of the [MJ-12] people, but it is hard to believe that, if this were a genuine memo, one could say it wasn’t genuine because it includes material that we already knew to be true!”

If “most” people did not know what Moore and Friedman knew that means some people like Doty at AFOSI did know. Why didn’t Moore and Friedman consider the some who did know about their research? But not all the information in the EBD was “true” or “known to be true,” either. This mistaken information in its contents is traceable for the very reason that it came from and could only have come from Moore and Friedman, who were passing on every scrap of information on their research to Doty and the “Falcon” Colonel / AFOSI. And it was blindly incorporated into the MJ-12 EBD by the hoaxer.

caveat emptor

[shrug]

Later,

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