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Putin increases missile defence rhetoric

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posted on Aug, 13 2007 @ 09:32 PM
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Putin increases missile defence rhetoric


www.ft.com

The war of words between Moscow and the west over missile defence intensified over the weekend as Vladimir Putin, Russia’s president, declared a new radar station near St Petersburg to be “the first step in a large-scale programme”.
Moscow has said it would bolster its air defence capability in response to US plans to site early-warning systems in the Czech Republic and missile interceptors in Poland to protect against attack from Iran or North Korea.


(visit the link for the full news article)



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posted on Aug, 13 2007 @ 09:32 PM
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Every time I check the news and ATS There is something about Russia being discussed. Just browse all the recent threads started relating to Russia within the last month. I think the bear has awakened.

www.ft.com
(visit the link for the full news article)



posted on Aug, 13 2007 @ 09:57 PM
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Originally posted by highfreq


Every time I check the news and ATS There is something about Russia being discussed. Just browse all the recent threads started relating to Russia within the last month. I think the bear has awakened.

www.ft.com
(visit the link for the full news article)


No the bears long gone. And it knows it.

Death of a nation - Russia
Part 1
www.youtube.com...
Part 2
www.youtube.com...
Part 3
www.youtube.com...
Part 4
www.youtube.com...
Part 5
www.youtube.com...
Part 6
www.youtube.com...

[edit on 13-8-2007 by West Coast]



posted on Aug, 13 2007 @ 11:51 PM
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Originally posted by West Coast
No the bears long gone. And it knows it.

Death of a nation - Russia
Part 1
www.youtube.com...
Part 2
www.youtube.com...
Part 3
www.youtube.com...
Part 4
www.youtube.com...
Part 5
www.youtube.com...
Part 6
www.youtube.com...


The Western propaganda never ceases to amaze me. For half the time is arguing with common sense and rationality, and for the other half it is arguing with itself.

One side in the West yells at full throat -"BEWARE THE BEAR IS AWAKE AND READY TO STRIKE, RUN FOR YOUR LIVES, GET THE NUKES READY", while the other side in the West is screaming with laughter - "RUSSIA IS DEAD AND THE US IS VICTORIOUS, LETS ENJOY THE SPOILS OF THE COLD WAR AND THROW PENNIES AT THE BUM THAT IS RUSSIA".

So what is it? Do you want a strong Russia to scare the living crap out of you, or do you want a weak Russia to make you feel like the king of the hill? It is what you make of it - and most times it is either of the two extremes - both opinions which in my humble opinion are BS. But then my opinion is also BS.

Does not one try to consider the middle ground now? Did it go out of style?

[edit on 13-8-2007 by maloy]



posted on Aug, 14 2007 @ 12:29 AM
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I'm surprised we haven't seen more tough talk from Russia. America has been acting pretty aggressively towards a lot of people.



posted on Aug, 14 2007 @ 02:20 AM
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Originally posted by maloy
The Western propaganda never ceases to amaze me. For half the time is arguing with common sense and rationality, and for the other half it is arguing with itself.

One side in the West yells at full throat -"BEWARE THE BEAR IS AWAKE AND READY TO STRIKE, RUN FOR YOUR LIVES, GET THE NUKES READY", while the other side in the West is screaming with laughter - "RUSSIA IS DEAD AND THE US IS VICTORIOUS, LETS ENJOY THE SPOILS OF THE COLD WAR AND THROW PENNIES AT THE BUM THAT IS RUSSIA".

So what is it? Do you want a strong Russia to scare the living crap out of you, or do you want a weak Russia to make you feel like the king of the hill? It is what you make of it - and most times it is either of the two extremes - both opinions which in my humble opinion are BS. But then my opinion is also BS.

Does not one try to consider the middle ground now? Did it go out of style?


Well Mr. Maloy. If it is wrong, do feel free to correct it.


I think the documentary brings up a very good point. Russias population is fast declining, with the estimated population to be half of what it is now by the year 2050. Also the further 'disintegration' of the current russian federation isnt so far fetched either. Russia is also facing an aids epidemic. I am by no means trying to poor salt into the wound, and i am sorry if it seemed as though that were my intentions, but russia isnt the beast it was in the Soviet days. It is and has gotten stronger, but is that built to last? Is it temporary? There is also the undeniable fact that Russia has a super rich and super poor class problem, with no one to fill in the middle ground (middle class). The rich get richer, whilst the poor get poorer. The problem seems, the state is siding with the super rich, whilst the average and poor russians are left to fend for themselves. That is a very real problem facing russia today. i for one feel sorry for the ordinary russian.

PS. I noticed the ax and sickle in your avatar. Are you from Russia? I rest my case.

[edit on 14-8-2007 by West Coast]



posted on Aug, 15 2007 @ 11:24 PM
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Originally posted by West Coast
Well Mr. Maloy. If it is wrong, do feel free to correct it.


It's not that it is false - as in outright lie. But it does present a biased view with only facts from one side of the spectrum - and that results in nothing but mislead and possibly prejudiced opinions.

All countries go through up and down cycles, which at most times are gradual and self-correcting, but sometimes are nearly cataclysmic. And in nearly all cases (as long as the nation survives) it will eventually bounce back. US went through a cataclysmic "down" in the 1930's, but then bounced way in a less than a decade.

Well Russia was "blessed" with 3 cataclysmic changes in the last century alone: the civil war and the rise of the Bolsheviks, WWII, and the fall of the Soviet Union. And the most telling sign of its strength is the fact that it survived through all of them, and eventually bounced back. Show me a nation that went through so many changes in the last 100 years, and compare how it fared.

My point is that Russia will bounce back up - militarily, culturally, and economically. It may take a decade, two or three, but it has the necessary resources (and not just natural). To say that Russia is dead and buried is a big mistake. History proves this fact time and again - not just about Russia but about any sizeable nation.


Originally posted by West Coast
I think the documentary brings up a very good point. Russias population is fast declining, with the estimated population to be half of what it is now by the year 2050.


This info and the rates on which the "2050" figure is based is at least 6 years old. Yes - if Russian population was on the same unchanging trend as in the late 90's, you could expect this to be true. But the demographics are on the turn around. The population growth is still in the negative based on the lastest statistics, but during the last 5 years it has been creeping up, slowly but surely. Plus there is sizeable migration into Russia from Asian CIS countries.


Originally posted by West Coast
Also the further 'disintegration' of the current russian federation isnt so far fetched either. Russia is also facing an aids epidemic.


Epidemics come and go, just like everything else. Every country in the world has some pressing issue.


Originally posted by West Coast
I am by no means trying to poor salt into the wound, and i am sorry if it seemed as though that were my intentions, but russia isnt the beast it was in the Soviet days.


Why should it be. It has less population than Soviet Union, and fewer issues that warrant a powerful military. It doesn't need a Cold War, and doesn't need another face-off with the US. It much rather focus on the economy, which is exactly what it is doing. Russia has the fastest growing economy in Europe, the most money in foreign reserves, and comparatively low debt. It seems like you judge everything based on military strength - and I don't agree with that. US is by far the "strongest" nation in the world. How does that help it with its ever growing amount of problems? US has a ton of urgent issues, which are not being dealt with.


Originally posted by West Coast
It is and has gotten stronger, but is that built to last? Is it temporary?


Nothing is built to last. Not the strength of Rome, not the strength of Soviet Union, not the strength of Russia, not the strength of US. I could say- how strong will the US remain in 2100? There is no possible way to answer this question, and there are a million possibilities. Same with Russia. Look and judge the current situation and the near future. Surely Russian future is likely not as stable as that of the US (which had 200 years to build its democracy), but there is no indication that it will suffer another cataclysmic change.



Originally posted by West Coast
There is also the undeniable fact that Russia has a super rich and super poor class problem, with no one to fill in the middle ground (middle class).


Yes - just like Europe had in the beginning of the industrial age, just like US had in the late 1800's, just like China is having now.... It is all a part of the cycle - the transformation to a market economy and capitalism. nearly all capitalist countries went through some sort of a similar problem. In Russia it is slowly starting to correct itself with the lower middle class gaining ground, and some super rich being driven out. Look at the oligarchs that got kicked out by Putin, and who were killed in the "Privatization Wars" between rival capitalists in the early 90's. What you describe is still a problem, but it should be too early to judge a capitalist economy that is still in its infancy.



Originally posted by West Coast
The rich get richer, whilst the poor get poorer.


The poor hit rock bottom in the 90's in Russia. Only way is up. And no one is in a rush.


Originally posted by West Coast
The problem seems, the state is siding with the super rich, whilst the average and poor russians are left to fend for themselves.


Yeltsin's "Oligarch Administration" sided with the rich, and US and Europe loved that. Why did they love that? Because for one oligarch (the Western one) it is surely easier to do business with another oligarch (Russian), than with a socialist/militarist/despot/communist. Are you going to tell me that the West is not run by the corporations, for the corporations? The people seemingly have a say, but the corporations are the puppet masters.

Putin is not so much pro-oligarchy now as Yeltsin was. So any progress is still progress for Russia - as for the West I cannot say the same about Bush administration.


Originally posted by West Coast
That is a very real problem facing russia today. i for one feel sorry for the ordinary russian.


No need to feel sorry. People felt sorry for China in the 70's, opening the new "trade route" thanks to Nixon. Look at the result. Instead of feeling sorry - try to understand the trends and the historical contingencies, which cannot be disproven unlike theories about the future.


Originally posted by West Coast
PS. I noticed the ax and sickle in your avatar. Are you from Russia? I rest my case.


yes I am



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