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Aerospace – the rules of debate

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posted on Aug, 13 2007 @ 05:11 AM
Aerospace – the rules of debate

When posting in ATS can everyone please observe these simple rules, if you do it will make life so much simpler, ta.

Fortunately I see most of you are way ahead of me and observe these rules steadfastly already, well done

Group 1 - Americans (including wannabe’s from similar but less impressive countries)

1 – Every time Boeing wins an order this is proof positive of superior American engineering, If Boeing loses an order it is proof positive of dirty cheating foreigners and their corrupt ways. Remember how Airbus forced Lockheed and McDonnell out of airliners and avenge this (Boeing is innocent!)

2 – The US military = invulnerable Our equipment is right up there with what you see on Stargate and Star Trek (or even better), all our opponents are straight out of Gladiator, technologically speaking. Never forget this, it makes standing your ground in the face of faultless logic so much easier. This is also known as the "ah, but what about the stuff that is secret?" get out, a most useful device.

3 America makes the biggest and best of everything, we don’t make an airliner bigger than the A380 out of choice, in fact we tricked those silly Euros into making that one as we are so clever. So its sold a few, the airlines are as daft as Airbus. US airlines have not bought it out of common sense, nothing political going on at all.

4 If you have hopelessly lost the debate (even though this is impossible because you are American!) just point out how America is a better place to live than their *country* (wherever it happens to be) and lo, you have won after all.

Group 2 - Foreigners (including Americans with a self loathing complex)

1 Secret American military crashes (as they all are) prove the crapness of US aircraft beyond doubt, Russian crashes are merely unfortunate. An American crash only counts as 'reported' after its 500th consecutive day on every single channel.

2 When Boeing is top seller in the world of commercial aviation it is due to their corrupt controlling of the worlds markets, when Airbus overtake them it is proof of the triumph of fair trade and freedom of choice, evidence to the contrary must be ignored. John Leahy is your hero.

3 If the point being made is one you cannot argue with just remember that all Americans are fat and dumb and the voted GWB into the Whitehouse not once, but twice! You will feel much better.

feel free to add what I have omitted, except anything about 'smug Englishmen' as this would be in poor taste.

[edit on 13-8-2007 by waynos]

Mod Edit: Profanity/Circumvention Of Censors – Please Review This Link.

[edit on 14-8-2007 by Duzey]

posted on Aug, 13 2007 @ 08:08 AM
Smug Englishmen? Only when you manage to fumble a win in the Ashes every 50 years or so.

Americans (including wannabe’s from similar but less impressive countries)
By that I assume you mean Australian's, Canadian's and Brits. Hey we all have C-17's now just like them rich folk!

If you have hopelessly lost the debate (even though this is impossible because you are American)
Hmmm... sounds like someone we know who thinks you can fire a missile sideways. They do give their location as Washington afterall.

When posting in ATS can everyone please observe these simple rules, if you do it will make life so much simpler, ta.
Well if we did that it wouldn't be worth coming here, and they do say rules were made to be broken.

feel free to add what I have omitted

would someone tell those bloody Australians here to shut up and stop whingeing about how Europeans turn their nose up at them, sell them dud or overpriced equipment, or how America won't sell them the F-22. There are far to many of them on this site, and they think they are so good with all those beaches, Kangaroo's and their abillity to use British English spelling for words like colour, standardise or gaol.

My five cents (Australian, we don't have two cent pieces anymore)


[edit on 13-8-2007 by thebozeian]

posted on Aug, 13 2007 @ 10:39 AM

If everyone would follow such sensible rules, it would add so much to the pleasure of contributing to the forum, and it is satisfying to see that so many already follow them. I can however add to the proposed rules of debate....

Group 3 - All participants (Americans, Europeans, and assorted ferrrreners) should treat any word or phrase that they don't understand as a personal insult and immediately place the contributor on their ignore list.

Originally posted by thebozeian
.........and they do say rules were made to be broken.

I don't think this is being entirely fair to our American friends. My understanding is that the Patriot Act makes this sort of behaviour punishable by life imprisonment (probably outside the US with free travel courtesy of the CIA) or the death sentence in those states that still employ that punishment.

I don't think waynos was referring to Australia, Canada, etc with his reference to wannabees - in line with his Rules of Engagement ... er.... Debate, the correct collective term for Australia and Canada by an Englishman (smug or otherwise) would be 'The Colonies'

The mention of kangaroos reminds me of some stats I heard recently. In spite of the fact that some folks outside Australia (and not a few within) think that kangaroos are endangered (and, by crikey, are going to do something about it!). and in spite of the drought, global warming, reducing environment, etc we have in Australia....

1. about 20 million people,
2. between 30 and 40 million sheep (they are so hard to count - you keep falling asleep trying to do it! - chronic insomniacs U2U me for an explanation of this and an offer from the Department of Statistics or whatever they call themselves).
3. and...... wait for it...... 50 million bloody kangaroos!!!!
They'll be bloody endangered if they stray in front of my F100 (the Ford 'pickup', not the engine), mate.

On this final point I seek advise as to whether I should submit 22 paragraphs lauding the qualities of the F100 at this point due to the fact that it was designed (if not manufactured) in the US of A. Perhaps, since it was manufactured locally, (using, of course, American technology) I could swing both ways, so to speak (I hope that phrase doesn't offend anyone, of course)

The Winged Wombat

On the flip side - you know why a Lada has a heated back window, don't you? It so your hands don't freeze while you're pushing it

[edit on 13/8/07 by The Winged Wombat]

posted on Aug, 14 2007 @ 12:09 AM
Well Waynos as much as I enjoy your post you are also biassed towards British engineering and how it all comes down to the island. I value your opinion, however if you believe in something as long as you are polite you should be able to say so. You think Boeing makes better planes than Airbus well say and support it with arguments.

This is the core of this forum.

posted on Aug, 14 2007 @ 05:36 AM

On the flip side - you know why a Lada has a heated back window, don't you? It so your hands don't freeze while you're pushing it

Those clever Russians think of everything

Carch, I hope you got that that whole post was a joke, a satirism on the attitudes displayed by all of us from time to time with a bit of exaggeration to help the humour along. It couldn't possibly have been more even handed and I even referred to my own smugness at feeling immune from these opinions (which I am not).

Biased to towards British stuff? Hell yes. I love it. But I do have my eyes open to the fact that we have more stuff ups and misfires, pro rata, than any other nation on earth despite our clear and obvious superior level of genius

[edit on 14-8-2007 by waynos]

posted on Aug, 14 2007 @ 07:07 AM
And those pompous Indians?

Who believe that they've mopped the floor with every other advanced AF they've ever faced in an exercise(in the last 5 years..)

Fast Forward Cope India 2200:

Yesterday the Indian AirForce hotshot pilots proved once again that their skills and jets were eons ahead of the much reputed USAF counter parts..

After all, India has been the hub of IT for the last 200 years and it was only natural that they would have better softwares in their hypersonic UCAVs.
Infact it is rumored that much of the software on USAF UCAVs are outsourced to India and thus all support calls have to be routed back to Indian call centres!!
It seems that this critical support dependancy may have resulted in major shortcomings on the USAF side, especially during the exercise.

Finally,most of the UCAV pilots were the elite pick of their country's Computer/Video Gaming fraternity.
As such most of the players(aged 14-55) were well known to each other and the combat control room was filled with abuses and explitives being hurled from both sides at each other. Some UCAVs ended up as 'soft-kills' in the exercise as their respective 'pilots' had spilled soda and snacks on the control consoles.

Back to present day:

And these Indians;they continue in delirium about how they've got the best of the east and the west;how their mix n match tactics will churn out magical superhybrids(a/c,tanks,missiles,subs) that will put all others to shame!
Sometimes its almost like these guys are hoarding 'Transformer Bots' or Robotech Mecha in those shelters!
Take that you Black Project guys!

Always lamenting about their 'emerging' economy and 'superpower-to-be' that will set the Ruskies,chicoms, yanks and Euros in their places!
(Oh and Aussies too!)

Though from time to time,one wonders when the economy will actually 'emerge' and the superpower-to-be will 'arrive'.

And I'm posting all of the above just one day before we celebrate our 60th Year of Independance!
Gawd I'm patriotic!

posted on Aug, 14 2007 @ 07:38 AM

Originally posted by The Winged Wombat
On this final point I seek advise as to whether I should submit 22 paragraphs lauding the qualities of the F100 at this point due to the fact that it was designed (if not manufactured) in the US of A.
All you need to do is follow waynos's guidlines and you will be fine.

To illustrate, you will need to also discuss its unprecedented kill ratio against Kangaroo's, regardless of whether they are Eastern Greys, Red's or a Wallaby species like the Black Faced Swamp or Rock Wallaby. Any reports of Ford F-100's or any other US designed vehicle coming off second best are only to be posted if you have solid evidence (preferably simultaneous bonnet and pouch camera footage) and unbiased testimony from either other vehicles or neutral macropods not involved in alledged incidents. Any evidence to the contrary such as incident photos showing vehicle front ends and radiators pierced by some unfortunate roo's upper torso, or rooflines and windscreens crushed, will only be accepted if said images can be proved beyond doubt to not be a PS'd fake.

Further you will also need to provide under the "waynos bill amendment" a further 22 paragraphs showing the Kangaroo's point of view and it's argument as to why its nocturnal anti vehicle methods are superior to the more expensive US sourced system.

All submissions by Kangaroo's and F-100's of French origin are to be treated as biased and unreliable, as they are merely distractions to sell Rafale's as all weather, multi role, long range anti vehicle/anti marsupial systems. And everyone knows thats a hell of a stretch.


posted on Aug, 14 2007 @ 07:39 AM
[edit on 14-8-2007 by thebozeian]

posted on Aug, 14 2007 @ 02:29 PM
On the other hand, thebozeian, since the submission in support of the F-100 originates from a Wombat (obviously an opponent of the F-100 on the battlefield and an ally of the kangaroo - and one with an awesome real-world kill ratio against F-100 and similar weapons systems), it should be obvious that any admiration of the F-100 on the part of the Wombat should be taken with the utmost seriousness and as a wake up call to operators of similar systems.

What would those untrustworthy, cheese eating Frenchies know of the combat capabilities of the Kangaroo - it is obvious that they could only access any intel on Kangaroo weapons systems from a third party, and I'm supremely confident that those with first hand knowledge of those systems will never allow that knowledge into French hands (perhaps legislation is required, however). Look what happened when they discovered the specifications of the Frog's paired propulsion system. The consequences of a French discovery of the Kangaroo propulsion system would be catastrophic to the culinary balance (of course it would just be an 'up-size' in the US - would you like fries with that?)!

Further, I'm not at all sure you should have mentioned the Black Faced Rock Wallaby - it is, after all a 'Black' project. I, for example, would never discuss the capabilities or purpose of the forward sensors on the Hairy Nosed Wombat!

Which, of course leads to the further ROD - Those who understand and wish to participate in satire should clearly state in the thread title that the subject matter is of a satirical nature for the benefit of the majority.

Perhaps a rating system such as SAT+15, SAT-A, SAT-G and SAT-Free might be appropriate (I do not actually believe this and only introducing it to stimulate the interest of those with Bureaucratic tendencies who might be reading this)

I quake in terror at the awesome power (and evil intent) of the subcontinent and must now seriously contemplate low observable technology for the trusty F-100 - enjoy the party

How dare you claim superiority in the category of 'stuff-ups' for Britain - just another arrogant superiority claim without adequate documentary evidence! Where's your YouTube links?

The Winged Wombat

PS: Whooooosh! Love it!

[edit on 14/8/07 by The Winged Wombat]

posted on Aug, 20 2007 @ 01:20 AM
One of the better threads in the aviation forum I've seen in a long time and its rotting at the bottom of the list!

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